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United States1913 Posts
On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community.
But these changes didn't come from the balance council........
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On September 22 2025 01:13 Antithesis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 00:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 22 2025 00:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 21 2025 22:25 MJG wrote:
Anyone advocating for massive gameplay overhauls is deluding themselves because Blizzard are dedicating a fraction of a fraction of the resources that they used to. It won't be done properly, it will be haphazard, it will be based on the opinions of casters/players generating low-effort clickbait videos on YouTube, and it will fail. If their goal is to make the game more fun then they need to do serious overhauls to fix the problems the game has in its core design, problems that have been there since Wings of Liberty. If they aren't going to do that, then just focus on getting the balance right. This. The balance is actually quite close to being fine, and the things that currently make TvP unfair - everyone probably agrees on that - are subtler than it looks. Keep the overcharge change, the spire change, maybe the bane change. Nerf storm a bit if you absolutely need to (slightly reduce the damage per tick or have the first two ticks do 5 and then get to the usual 10, a lot of things could be tried), but then I think you're good to go. Yeah. Here is my view: Drop the ridiculous storm nerf; the nerf to energy overcharge is more important and already substantial, and it can be further adjusted as necessary. Drop the non-abductability of siege-tanks. Drop the viking buff; the unit is perfectly fine and being built all the time. Drop the observer change. Now we have a reasonable point of departure. Probably the effectiveness of microbial shroud needs to be reduced somewhat.
What is the problem and what is the tweak?
Ideally, you’re told. Even more ideally, you aren’t but you can figure it out.
This one, I’m confused, minus the Toss changes. I mean I think they’re way too far, but I get the problem/solution pretty intuitively.
What problems are some of the other things meant to solve?
It feels like budget dark swarm microbial shroud is meant to (I would guess) make it a bit easier to attack into a an entrenched Terran position.
OK, I don’t mind that, especially for us ladder plebs, let’s see how it goes. But then vipers can’t abduct tanks? Ok, presumably that’s meant to be a counter-balancing tweak?
Ok, but why are Vikings cheaper now? Toss has had no buffs that would require a tweak there, is it for TvZ or TvT? And what problems is that meant to fix?
If you had say, an unchanged viper, plus microbial shroud as a Zerg buff, then say, it might make sense to be able to pump out cheaper Vikings to better zone out vipers, as you’ve now got microbial shroud to also worry about.
But you’ve nerfed vipers against mech or bio/tank already right? So why do Vikings have to be cheaper?
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On September 20 2025 22:55 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 17:51 Hider wrote:On September 20 2025 08:40 WombaT wrote:On September 20 2025 08:08 Hider wrote:
The more I think about the more I like the patch.
This is a redesign of Psi Storm. Should it be redesigned? My initial reaction was why? But the more I think about the more it probably makes sense to make it a zoning tool. If the TvP Meta is protoss having many more bases than the terran then it means the terran can never afford to be hit by a huge psi storm. Thus the game must be balanced with the terran almost being capable of EMP'ing beforehand and it's just not that fun.
Making it a zoning tool could work. And I think most people are getting this wrong. Yes it's not gonna deal a large amount of instant damage. However, terrans can't take fights in it. And terrans really can't afford to just stim past it (that's not how bio works).
2 Psi storm should generally result in a huge positional advantage for the protoss player. The difference is that TvP won't be as one-sided with one fight potentially ended the game. But rather more back and forth and tactical plays.
TvZ is interesting as well because the counter to the Shroud is Psi Storm. The change to both abilities will make fights longer as well. Zone them to do, what? Toss eventually have to kill their opponent’s army. Forcefields are already a potent zoning option, but are very situationally deployed in TvP and kinda get phased out. Disruptors were extremely potent zoning tools and got nerfed to be less effective in that capacity. And Toss in this meta go pretty Zealot heavy too, so I mean eventually you have to engage. With units that kinda go where they want when they charge. I could see it being situationally useful, absolutely. But it’s also an absolutely core ability in killing things in direct engagements. So nerfing it in that capacity is gigantic. If you wanted to experiment, give Temps two different flavours of Storm, or buff something that would synergise with these changes. In a crude sense, Zerg want to get on top of you at all times, provided it’s not suicidal. Toss want to keep the bugs away from them most times, and jump on top of Terran. Terran are the race that want to engage at a distance across the board. Giving Toss a potent zoning tool, but neutering its ability to quickly kill things, might be somewhat potent in PvZ. But in PvT, where you want to get up close and personal, I don’t see how it works, in general. It would obviously be strong in delaying pushes and buying time to reinforce to crush it, but more generally it’s not something that feels synergises with how the faction plays in that matchup I share your concerns for PvZ as the zerg is happy to rush through the zones into melee range. However, storm is also bugged now so a bit hard to evaluate exactly how it plays out. Vs ranged units it's different and that's all terran have. Protoss can use to gain control of certain positions. Move forward, to attack a base. Protoss storms the area preventing the terran from defending the base. It could be used almost like a Siege Tank where you gradually gain control of a new area. In some ways it's better because Protoss can storm before the battle occurs preventing any type of EMP impact. I am very curious how it plays out. There is a scenario where it's broken vs terran after protoss have adjusted their playstyle.
Bio ball and lings literally can rush past 3 storms and still have half hp
Are you thinking through the implications of what you are saying? Terran stimming throug to get into melee range vs protoss? That's how you imagine terrans will react to that and terrans will win? But your comment is the perfect example with why are think ppl are getting this wrong. You all think of the storm as being balanced around the guaranteed damage impact. But new storm is about forcing the opponent into a situation where he has no good options. Stim through and to zealots/archon? Try and split which results in suboptimal concave for an extended period? Move back to fight later? Finally, the ‘why?’. Cool, let’s give Toss a zoning tool, that’s a neat change. Except, Toss already have some of the best zoning tools in the game! Forcefields, stasis traps, Tempests, Disruptors, the ability to those units to exploit their range when combined with observers and revelation. They’re not lacking there at all
Why? Initially I wondered about that as well. But I think it should be the race/army with the weakest econ that has the most "forgiveable" micro.
Many years ago when the meta was different, terran had more bases than the protoss. Today we see the opposite - and often too an extreme degree. I don't think it's healthy game-design that the protoss can wipe out out the terran army in 1-2 seconds.
I think it's more healthy gameplay if the protoss can poke a bit. Snipe some units, bases/econ. And then force the terran to retreat.
So I think a redesign is justified - atleast when we evaluate this on TvP. But as I said before, for PvZ I am not so sure. I hope we get too see some tournaments on the path. But obviously the certainty around the exact balance implications is high. I think everyone here is way too confident in their assessment that it's a clear nerf in PvT. It may be, but tbh it may also be a buff.
IF it turns out protoss becomes too weak. I would be happy for buffs to it's core units. Immortals and Colossus should imo move faster. The latter could definitely be buffed in response to the Viking buff.
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I really look forward to Protoss players trying to hold hydra/bane timings (e. g. game 7 in the EWC finals, or Rogue multiple times in the GSL final) on a patch where the Zerg player has to go AFK to lose even 1 baneling to storm.
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On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........
Nobody really knows where the changes came from. While the balance council officially doesn't exist anymore, I still think it's likely that a small group of pro gamers/community members with a link to blizzard told them to implement the changes.
I think it's rather unlikely blizzard would put the resources into the game to carefully monitor sc2 balance and gameplay, speak to community members and analyze different solutions, to come up with a reasonable patch.
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I think this could be cool. Some numbers have to get tweaked but this introduces completely different playing style
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On September 22 2025 02:48 Harris1st wrote:
I think this could be cool. Some numbers have to get tweaked but this introduces completely different playing style
That playstyle is all-inning because Protoss can't win beyond ~120 supply without strong AoE damage.
That's fine for me and my Cannon rushing friends, but not for most people.
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On September 22 2025 02:56 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 02:48 Harris1st wrote:
I think this could be cool. Some numbers have to get tweaked but this introduces completely different playing style That playstyle is all-inning because Protoss can't win beyond ~120 supply without strong AoE damage. That's fine for me and my Cannon rushing friends, but not for most people.
And if they WERE gonna nerf Protoss splash damage and try and balance out their roster in other ways, why on Earth would they want to nerf Psionic Storm the one that actually takes some modicum of skill to use properly?
No this nerf was specific, it was to nerf Skytoss deathballs against Zerg, and now with Skytoss nerfed and Lurkers even stronger thanks to the new Microbrial Shroud I genuinely don't know how Protoss is supposed to win against Zerg anymore without all inning them.
We can already see that Protoss late game vs Zerg isn't unbeatable as Rogue and especially Serral have shown on multiple occasions and now they just hit it with huge nerfs with nothing to compensate it.
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Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around.
I agree with the overall sentiment, but just because the boy cried wolf erroneously before doesn’t mean there’s not a wolf roaming about, hungry for blood this time.
It’s probably the most extreme singular change I’ve ever seen in 15 years of the game, if we’re talking the storm change.
Which, even worse is like legitimately bugged to be even shitter than the proposed change is meant to be, so people can’t test it.
What’s worse, I don’t even think the overall patch is that bad! It’s a mix of things I think are good, some I think are interesting but ‘wait and see’
The patch in the totality, it’s like sitting down for one of those fancy meals where you get like 7-8 courses of small meals, beautifully presented, and you try out some dishes you mightn’t like alongside your stock, lock favourites. Some might turn out better than you’d expected, some worse.
The storm change is like getting to course 8 and someone has taken a dump on your plate. They’ve arranged it to be very fine dining presentation wise, but ultimately someone has served you shit. You’re probably refusing to pay, no matter how good the preceding courses.
Just revert that specific change, see how it goes.
I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic
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On September 22 2025 08:04 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around. Just revert that specific change, see how it goes. I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic
Nah the Observer change needs to go away too. I don't know why the hell they keep nerfing Observers, what dev is playing against Protoss and has such a hard time dealing with them?
Especially with energy recharge getting its deserved nerf, Protoss will need Observers to keep up in the information game, and with both nerfs hitting in the same patch Protoss scouting and map awareness is gonna drop off big time also.
It's a totally unnecessary change that literally nobody asked for.
Revert, the Psi Storm and Observer changes and I'm happy with the patch. I'm not thrilled at the idea of Zerg getting such significant buffs but I don't feel strongly enough about those to cry foul on the patch.
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Finally after years of losing 200/200 armies of Zerg units storm gets nerfed. Long time overdue there was very little Zerg players left on ladder. Templar was way to strong vs Zerg with feedback vs caster and storm. I will consider playing some zerg again if it gets on live.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On September 22 2025 09:41 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 08:04 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around. Just revert that specific change, see how it goes. I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic Nah the Observer change needs to go away too. I don't know why the hell they keep nerfing Observers, what dev is playing against Protoss and has such a hard time dealing with them? Especially with energy recharge getting its deserved nerf, Protoss will need Observers to keep up in the information game, and with both nerfs hitting in the same patch Protoss scouting and map awareness is gonna drop off big time also. It's a totally unnecessary change that literally nobody asked for. Revert, the Psi Storm and Observer changes and I'm happy with the patch. I'm not thrilled at the idea of Zerg getting such significant buffs but I don't feel strongly enough about those to cry foul on the patch.
Fuck. The storm change was so bad I temporarily forgot about that! It consumed my brain.
I mean have any of the recent observer nerfs been at all necessary?
This one, what? Look if you wanna go ‘let’s nerf F2 play’ there’s a clear answer to that. Nerf the observer in surveillance mode, cut its vision or something. Players who F2 and rely on locking them in placeget nerfed, players who don’t, do not.
Or, if you wanna buff the sight range, make it an upgrade.
I’m sure there’s some situations where +2 sight range outweighs the ‘Literally anything that shoots up can see and kill my observer’, but it can’t be all that many
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On September 22 2025 08:04 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around. I agree with the overall sentiment, but just because the boy cried wolf erroneously before doesn’t mean there’s not a wolf roaming about, hungry for blood this time. It’s probably the most extreme singular change I’ve ever seen in 15 years of the game, if we’re talking the storm change. Which, even worse is like legitimately bugged to be even shitter than the proposed change is meant to be, so people can’t test it. What’s worse, I don’t even think the overall patch is that bad! It’s a mix of things I think are good, some I think are interesting but ‘wait and see’ The patch in the totality, it’s like sitting down for one of those fancy meals where you get like 7-8 courses of small meals, beautifully presented, and you try out some dishes you mightn’t like alongside your stock, lock favourites. Some might turn out better than you’d expected, some worse. The storm change is like getting to course 8 and someone has taken a dump on your plate. They’ve arranged it to be very fine dining presentation wise, but ultimately someone has served you shit. You’re probably refusing to pay, no matter how good the preceding courses. Just revert that specific change, see how it goes. I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic
If it's bugged, yeah that's bad and they need to fix it. The change itself changes the best use cases for storm - it's a nerf in some scenarios but also gives it more utility in other scenarios. 3 times the duration at half the DPS means it does 1.5x more total damage per cast. It will be better against sieged units. It will make for a better zoning tool for retreating armies and ramps. It will be less effective for "I clicked here and now everything I clicked on is dead".
Remember in WoL when they deleted the Khaydarin Amulet research because they realized being able to warp in HTs with instant storm was hilariously broken? Well, energy overcharge lets protoss do that again, and with the significant buffs to energy overcharge in this patch, HT would have been OP again without some change to storm and this is what they decided on.
Everyone back then was so sure it was the end of Protoss too - they claimed there would be no way to defend expos or drops without it. But life moved on, and Protoss still won championships.
TL;DR, let the pros cook, let the meta settle, and if worse comes to worse and Protoss win rates really do tank as a result then they can change it back. Theorycrafting only gets you so far.
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The Zerg changes I think are worth seeing how it plays out. If Microbial Shroud ends up too strong the percentages can be changed, but I'm always a fan of buffs over nerfs.
The Terran changes, I would not bother with the Siege tank or Viking changes. There's no reason to buff Vikings and the siege tank change, while not terrible, is so lore breaking I really don't like it. Drilling Claws and Hyperflight rotors being changed is fine. Mines and cloak Banshees can certainly be annoying, but it opens up some game play options and mines have been suitably nerfed to not just kill everything where a buff seems appropriate.
I hate pretty much everything about the Protoss changes. At bare minimum the observer should have it's model size nerfs reverted and it should be visible but still "cloaked" so you still need detection to kill it, but everyone can see it when it's in Surveillance Mode.
Now, if talking changes to try and address what it seems like they're trying to address I'd suggest the following:
Spoilered just so it doesn't take up space for people who don't care.
+ Show Spoiler +
Now, for Terran needing some kind of help against a stronger Zerg via the Microbial shroud buff, rather than pushing for more Viking wars, which also impacts Colossus play, how about helping out a niche Terran unit to be relevant later into the game? I would propose a change to the Raven and/or the Reaper along with a tweak to Hellions.
Raven
- Interference Matrix removed
- New ability: Sensor scrambler added
- Sensor scrambler: Raven fires a pulse of energy that causes all affected units to have their attack, vision, spell cast range reduced by 4 to a minimum of 1 for 8 seconds. All numbers subject to change for balance.
TvT: this should hopefully help with siege lines, viking battles, and engaging any fortified location
TvP: gives another tool to counter Protoss splash. The disruptor is going to be the only unit that can still threaten range after eating a scrambler
TvZ: Basically if you can't really hurt them at range, they can't hurt you either and the next time they want to cast anything they need to get a lot closer if you pull back. Enemy melee units are of course still a factor
Reaper
- New upgrade: Spatial charges
- Spatial charges enhance the knockback effect of Reaper KD8 charges giving them +20 damage vs structures and a larger AOE (2?, 3?) of knockback. Again, all numbers subject to change for balance
The goal here is simple, make reapers more relevant in late game and give them the ability to forcibly move enemy units out of the effects of static spells
Hellion/Hellbat
Their attacks are treated as melee for the purpose of Guardian shield, Blinding cloud and Microbial shroud.
As to Protoss, I get the need to nerf Energy Recharge and the frustrating asymmetry of not knowing if an Observer saw your move out, but leave storm alone.
Energy Recharge
Basically copy Tranfusion. Restores 50 energy and 50 shields to a target instantly and provides an additional 10 energy and 15 shields over the next 5 seconds. This will also make it far more readable with the little effect that triggers when a unit is recharged persisting, you know when the ability has been used. The shield restoration also helps make it support Robo units better too as an indirect buff to them.
Observer
Revert model size nerfs. When an observer is in Surveillance Mode it's vision stays the same as currently (25% increase) but it also gains a radar range of 17. Now, you will know there is an observer out there and whether you were seen or not and the Protoss player, if paying attention, can always start moving their observer in response to your movements to keep it alive as it's always going to be obvious where a Surveillance Mode observer is sitting.
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On September 22 2025 13:39 Kitai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 08:04 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around. I agree with the overall sentiment, but just because the boy cried wolf erroneously before doesn’t mean there’s not a wolf roaming about, hungry for blood this time. It’s probably the most extreme singular change I’ve ever seen in 15 years of the game, if we’re talking the storm change. Which, even worse is like legitimately bugged to be even shitter than the proposed change is meant to be, so people can’t test it. What’s worse, I don’t even think the overall patch is that bad! It’s a mix of things I think are good, some I think are interesting but ‘wait and see’ The patch in the totality, it’s like sitting down for one of those fancy meals where you get like 7-8 courses of small meals, beautifully presented, and you try out some dishes you mightn’t like alongside your stock, lock favourites. Some might turn out better than you’d expected, some worse. The storm change is like getting to course 8 and someone has taken a dump on your plate. They’ve arranged it to be very fine dining presentation wise, but ultimately someone has served you shit. You’re probably refusing to pay, no matter how good the preceding courses. Just revert that specific change, see how it goes. I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic If it's bugged, yeah that's bad and they need to fix it. The change itself changes the best use cases for storm - it's a nerf in some scenarios but also gives it more utility in other scenarios. 3 times the duration at half the DPS means it does 1.5x more total damage per cast. It will be better against sieged units. It will make for a better zoning tool for retreating armies and ramps. It will be less effective for "I clicked here and now everything I clicked on is dead". Remember in WoL when they deleted the Khaydarin Amulet research because they realized being able to warp in HTs with instant storm was hilariously broken? Well, energy overcharge lets protoss do that again, and with the significant buffs to energy overcharge in this patch, HT would have been OP again without some change to storm and this is what they decided on. Everyone back then was so sure it was the end of Protoss too - they claimed there would be no way to defend expos or drops without it. But life moved on, and Protoss still won championships. TL;DR, let the pros cook, let the meta settle, and if worse comes to worse and Protoss win rates really do tank as a result then they can change it back. Theorycrafting only gets you so far.
You think there are significant buffs to Energy Overcharge in this patch?
Oh boy...
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........
Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one?
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On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one?
The balance council was an ESL endeavour and ESL no longer have any involvement.
It's likely that Blizzard are basing their changes on opinions collected from professional casters/players, especially since some of the changes are direct copies of clickbait generated by professional casters/players, but collecting opinions is not the same as the formal balance council structure that previously existed.
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On September 22 2025 15:26 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 13:39 Kitai wrote:On September 22 2025 08:04 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 07:31 Kitai wrote:
Players, tournaments, metas, community members, and patches all come and go. But the one thing that has and always will remain the same in SC2 is an outcry of armageddon preachers every time patch notes come around. I agree with the overall sentiment, but just because the boy cried wolf erroneously before doesn’t mean there’s not a wolf roaming about, hungry for blood this time. It’s probably the most extreme singular change I’ve ever seen in 15 years of the game, if we’re talking the storm change. Which, even worse is like legitimately bugged to be even shitter than the proposed change is meant to be, so people can’t test it. What’s worse, I don’t even think the overall patch is that bad! It’s a mix of things I think are good, some I think are interesting but ‘wait and see’ The patch in the totality, it’s like sitting down for one of those fancy meals where you get like 7-8 courses of small meals, beautifully presented, and you try out some dishes you mightn’t like alongside your stock, lock favourites. Some might turn out better than you’d expected, some worse. The storm change is like getting to course 8 and someone has taken a dump on your plate. They’ve arranged it to be very fine dining presentation wise, but ultimately someone has served you shit. You’re probably refusing to pay, no matter how good the preceding courses. Just revert that specific change, see how it goes. I think it’s potentially an OK, possibly good patch with that singular removal. If you keep it in, I think it is quite probably the worst patch the game has ever seen. And I’m not being hyperbolic If it's bugged, yeah that's bad and they need to fix it. The change itself changes the best use cases for storm - it's a nerf in some scenarios but also gives it more utility in other scenarios. 3 times the duration at half the DPS means it does 1.5x more total damage per cast. It will be better against sieged units. It will make for a better zoning tool for retreating armies and ramps. It will be less effective for "I clicked here and now everything I clicked on is dead". Remember in WoL when they deleted the Khaydarin Amulet research because they realized being able to warp in HTs with instant storm was hilariously broken? Well, energy overcharge lets protoss do that again, and with the significant buffs to energy overcharge in this patch, HT would have been OP again without some change to storm and this is what they decided on. Everyone back then was so sure it was the end of Protoss too - they claimed there would be no way to defend expos or drops without it. But life moved on, and Protoss still won championships. TL;DR, let the pros cook, let the meta settle, and if worse comes to worse and Protoss win rates really do tank as a result then they can change it back. Theorycrafting only gets you so far. You think there are significant buffs to Energy Overcharge in this patch? Oh boy...
Yeah my bad, I didn't read that one closely enough. I thought it reduced the amount of nexus energy required, not amount granted. But it doesn't change my point that a cooldown reduction would still result in more HT with instant storms.
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Almost a 10 second Storm? Hmm wtf lol
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EPT
