|
Following a test on reddit, you can see a unit takes the same amount of dmg going through a full storm on live vs PTR. The dps decrease is cancelled out by the increase in radius.
So if you take X damage going through full diameter (3) of storm on live, you would also take X damage going through full diameter (4.5) on PTR.
You would take X/2 damage if you started a unit from the center and moved out on both live and PTR.
Now imagine if unit started at 0.75 distance from the center and moved out. You would take X/4 damage on live and X/3 damage on PTR.
Finally if a unit started at 1.5 distance from center and moved out, it would take 0 damage on live and >0 dmg on PTR.
This isn't even taking into account the fact that storm lasts way longer, so stationary units will always take more dmg.
TLDR: Storm will always deal the same or more damage on PTR (barring some niche scenarios like teleporting with blink/bc) on top of larger surface area + longer duration.
|
I don't think this is the case based on the numbers that I've seen.
I've not been able to test in-game though, so I could be incorrect:
On September 23 2025 16:41 MJG wrote:
If someone tries to run through the Storm, from one end to the other, then any unit that takes longer than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take more damage than before, and any unit that takes less than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take less damage than before. I imagine most units with their speed upgrades (Stim, Metabolic Boost, Muscular Augments, Glial Reconstitution, Centrifugal Hooks, etc.) will get through the Storm faster than 3.52 seconds, so they'll take less damage than before.
Ignore me, my brain decided not to maths today.
EDIT:
I admittedly don't understand the tick rates, and those could be playing a factor that I don't know enough about the engine to address. I'm using the raw DPS number.
EDIT 2:
I agree that a unit in the middle of a Storm will take the same approximate damage moving out of the Storm in both live and PTR. The DPS and radius changes do seem to balance each other out in that respect.
|
On September 24 2025 00:48 MJG wrote:I don't think this is the case based on the numbers that I've seen. I've not been able to test in-game though, so I could be incorrect: Show nested quote +On September 23 2025 16:41 MJG wrote:
If someone tries to run through the Storm, from one end to the other, then any unit that takes longer than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take more damage than before, and any unit that takes less than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take less damage than before. I imagine most units with their speed upgrades (Stim, Metabolic Boost, Muscular Augments, Glial Reconstitution, Centrifugal Hooks, etc.) will get through the Storm faster than 3.52 seconds, so they'll take less damage than before.
This is literally not possible according to the damage formula.
Damage_Total_Live = DPS * Time
Damage_Total_PTR = xDPS * yTime
Where DPS is a constant. x is smaller than 1 since dps of PTR is lower than live. x is also constant since DPS doesn't change. y is greater than 1 since it takes longer to walk out of PTR storm. y is also a constant since time is linearly related to distance, which is linearly related to radius. If you graph the 2 lines you'll see it's mathematically impossible to get the scenario that you described.
So far in my tests it seems x * y =1 so the total damage is the same.
|
On September 24 2025 00:48 MJG wrote:
EDIT:
I admittedly don't understand the tick rates, and those could be playing a factor that I don't know enough about the engine to address. I'm using the raw DPS number.
EDIT 2:
I agree that a unit in the middle of a Storm will take the same approximate damage moving out of the Storm in both live and PTR. The DPS and radius changes do seem to balance each other out in that respect.
I think there is a bug rn with storm tho, according to some posts on reddit.
|
On September 24 2025 01:07 THERIDDLER wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2025 00:48 MJG wrote:I don't think this is the case based on the numbers that I've seen. I've not been able to test in-game though, so I could be incorrect: On September 23 2025 16:41 MJG wrote:
If someone tries to run through the Storm, from one end to the other, then any unit that takes longer than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take more damage than before, and any unit that takes less than 3.52 seconds to cross the Storm will take less damage than before. I imagine most units with their speed upgrades (Stim, Metabolic Boost, Muscular Augments, Glial Reconstitution, Centrifugal Hooks, etc.) will get through the Storm faster than 3.52 seconds, so they'll take less damage than before. This is literally not possible according to the damage formula. Damage_Total_Live = DPS * Time Damage_Total_PTR = xDPS * yTime Where DPS is a constant. x is smaller than 1 since dps of PTR is lower than live. x is also constant since DPS doesn't change. y is greater than 1 since it takes longer to walk out of PTR storm. y is also a constant since time is linearly related to distance, which is linearly related to radius. If you graph the 2 lines you'll see it's mathematically impossible to get the scenario that you described. So far in my tests it seems x * y =1 so the total damage is the same.
You're right. My brain decided not to maths today.
|
Northern Ireland26202 Posts
That doesn’t make it a strict buff.
It makes it stronger in scenarios if you’re in a unit tester and cast a storm and have units run through it.
In actual game scenarios, that’s not always going to be the case.
In a PvZ scenario, where a Zerg is committed into attacking into you, they’re going to have to run through and eat storms, so it’s conceivably definitely stronger in that kind of case, just looking at the numbers.
PvT, where Terrans are skirting at the edge of engagements, and either pull back out of storm or go ‘fuck it’ and push forward, I’m unclear of how that looks. Placement is going to affect that.
Total damage is an imperfect metric as well.
If old storm kills bio, or rolling banes more quickly, that’s less stuff being around to kill your stuff quickly. And if you have less stuff, quickly, your army is worse in that engagement in any scenario outside of abstract theorycrafting.
Let’s say, my opponent has split a group of marauders to gun for my Colossus. I would much rather kill them and stop them doing that, than having theoretically higher total damage, but not snipe my lazer giraffes.
Generally this is how PvT engagements work, you need to shave off a lot of bio quite quickly, and maintain your tech units. If you don’t manage to do that the quality of a really big bio ball will tend to outclass you.
Or indeed engagements overall. It’s not a case of looking at the theoretical output of both sides, there are priority targets and flipping points.
How these all interact I think is unclear and it’s just going to be a matter of real game scenario playtesting.
|
It literally doesn't matter where you sit in the storm or how fast you react. As long as you repeat the exact same experiment between PTR and live, the PTR storm will always be the same or better.
Barring some extreme scenarios like reacting with BC teleport or stalker blink etc. This is why I wrote "essentially".
In your example, if the banelings roll through and don't die to storm, then it will be the same on PTR and live. If it dies in the storm on live, it will also die in PTR but reach slightly further range. So in this scenario they will be able to dmg something slightly further (like 0.25 range further) if there is something there. So yea you can make up a niche scenario just like i did with BC or stalker (neither units will interact with storm in a real game)
In practice the PTR storm will be the same or better in 99.99% of scenarios, hence why i put the word "essentially"
|
I also thought it felt like a buff when I played with it
|
If it does end up feeling that way, they shouldn't change it.
We all know that Energy Recharge is the problem. Nerf that, leave Disruptors the same, leave Storm the same.
It's not rocket science.
|
Northern Ireland26202 Posts
On September 24 2025 02:35 THERIDDLER wrote:
It literally doesn't matter where you sit in the storm or how fast you react. As long as you repeat the exact same experiment between PTR and live, the PTR storm will always be the same or better.
Barring some extreme scenarios like reacting with BC teleport or stalker blink etc. This is why I wrote "essentially".
In your example, if the banelings roll through and don't die to storm, then it will be the same on PTR and live. If it dies in the storm on live, it will also die in PTR but reach slightly further range. So in this scenario they will be able to dmg something slightly further (like 0.25 range further) if there is something there. So yea you can make up a niche scenario just like i did with BC or stalker (neither units will interact with storm in a real game)
In practice the PTR storm will be the same or better in 99.99% of scenarios, hence why i put the word "essentially"
Terran has active healing.
Lower tick damage, but a bigger AoE + still existing healing in the intervals is a change.
It’s not a change that can be figured out by numbers alone, we gotta see how it plays out. It’s too complicated.
The previous proposals were genuine garbage and units could just run through it, you don’t need to be a game designer to see that.
This? With a bigger zone, lower tick damage, but longer duration, it’s a change. It might be good, might be bad, I genuinely think we need to just look at real-game scenarios and see how it works out.
|
Yea im not convinced you can cal this a straight buff. Right now it might even be bugged with double applying ticks and even in this state its less "bursty" so units that dodge out of it dont take as much dmg as before its just a differently used ability now (although i think the radius increase might easily be on the chopping block but lets fix this double tick bug first, assuming that is not intended).
|
On September 24 2025 03:32 MJG wrote:
If it does end up feeling that way, they shouldn't change it.
We all know that Energy Recharge is the problem. Nerf that, leave Disruptors the same, leave Storm the same.
It's not rocket science.
I agree. Changing storm for the sake of changing storm makes no sense - I could understand making it less immediately punishing, but that doesn't seem to be the case if the math of this thread is correct. The problem has indeed always been energy recharge and it got nerfed in a rather noticeable way, no need to take unreasonable risks with storm.
|
On September 24 2025 04:05 darklycid wrote:
Yea im not convinced you can cal this a straight buff. Right now it might even be bugged with double applying ticks and even in this state its less "bursty" so units that dodge out of it dont take as much dmg as before its just a differently used ability now (although i think the radius increase might easily be on the chopping block but lets fix this double tick bug first, assuming that is not intended).
My understanding is it does very similar damage to units running out of it, and is stronger when cast on siege units. In SC1 it is very common to target your storms onto siege tanks. Will this not help that play most? Storming libs or tanks and then your zealots or stalkers 1 shot them? And storms can zone now so it's harder for Terran to punish. Oh and the storms will be easier to land now with lib reduced vision.
|
On September 24 2025 04:16 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2025 04:05 darklycid wrote:
Yea im not convinced you can cal this a straight buff. Right now it might even be bugged with double applying ticks and even in this state its less "bursty" so units that dodge out of it dont take as much dmg as before its just a differently used ability now (although i think the radius increase might easily be on the chopping block but lets fix this double tick bug first, assuming that is not intended). My understanding is it does very similar damage to units running out of it, and is stronger when cast on siege units. In SC1 it is very common to target your storms onto siege tanks. Will this not help that play most? Storming libs or tanks and then your zealots or stalkers 1 shot them? And storms can zone now so it's harder for Terran to punish. Oh and the storms will be easier to land now with lib reduced vision.
i feel like storm being better against siege unitd and zoning is the intended goal of these changes. Similar dmg to units running out of it kida depends on the position they were in before i think. In the end i am not against testing these changes on the test realm we'll see how they play out (i am also not against reverting the radius buff i am just not sure if we need a energy recharge + storm nerf depending on where they end up).
|
Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
|
Not exactly.
I just test Cyclone with going through a full storm.
Cyclone takes 40 dmg in live version, but 30 dmg in PTR version, even going through full diameter 4.5.
Based on someone familiar with SC2 editor, the truth of new-new storm is the dmg will be taken like this
0s (storm dot), -5 dmg; 0.28s(0.399/1.4), dot -5 dmg; 0.38s(0.533/1.4), dot disappear;
0.57s (be found that still in storm, dot refresh), -5 dmg; 0.85s(0.57+0.28), dot -5 dmg; 0.95s(0.57+0.38), dot disappear;
1.14s (be found that still in storm, dot refresh), -5 dmg; 1.42s, dot -5 dmg; 1.52s, dot disappear.
For the live version storm, it can be considered as10 initial dmg + 6*10 dot dmg + 10 final dmg = 80.
As the same reason, PTR 2 storm can be considered as 5 initial dmg + 12*5*2 dot dmg + 5 final dmg = 130.
so for some high speed units which take really short time to go through full diameter,
they have chance that take same dot dmg, but less initial dmg and final dmg(10+10 vs 5+5)
|
On September 25 2025 10:40 ShroudCyber wrote:
Not exactly.
I just test Cyclone with going through a full storm.
Cyclone takes 40 dmg in live version, but 30 dmg in PTR version, even going through full diameter 4.5.
Based on someone familiar with SC2 editor, the truth of new-new storm is the dmg will be taken like this
0s (storm dot), -5 dmg; 0.28s(0.399/1.4), dot -5 dmg; 0.38s(0.533/1.4), dot disappear;
0.57s (be found that still in storm, dot refresh), -5 dmg; 0.85s(0.57+0.28), dot -5 dmg; 0.95s(0.57+0.38), dot disappear;
1.14s (be found that still in storm, dot refresh), -5 dmg; 1.42s, dot -5 dmg; 1.52s, dot disappear.
For the live version storm, it can be considered as10 initial dmg + 6*10 dot dmg + 10 final dmg = 80.
As the same reason, PTR 2 storm can be considered as 5 initial dmg + 12*5*2 dot dmg + 5 final dmg = 130.
so for some high speed units which take really short time to go through full diameter,
they have chance that take same dot dmg, but less initial dmg and final dmg(10+10 vs 5+5)
I knew there was more to understand about how the engine was calculating damage from Storms.
Using the raw DPS value clearly doesn't demonstrate the change properly...
|
Overall, yes it seems like small buff
I guess their direction is to nerf Energy Overcharge, and in return give Storm a small buff since in general it's still a bit hard to rely on Storms vs Ghosts.
At the same time, it encourages mass HTs slightly less (because the dmg gets dealt slower so you can't make armies blow up as quick), freeing up supply for other units.
In a situation where the opponent wants to fight you straight up, storm will also be slightly weaker because the damage doesn't get dealt as fast.
Or in cases where someone is not watching, it is slightly less punishing if you react late.
It's also better vs sieged units which may not siege/move out of the way like tanks, lurkers, liberators, or mech style overall. It gives Protoss another option to consider vs mass Liberators. Instead of tempests or blink stalkers, storm because it does up to ~130 dmg instead of 80 to a liberator that unsieges late.
I think it's a good change overall, much more nuanced and thought out than at first glance.
Just might need to balance the numbers ofc. Need to check the range. Maybe push it to a middleground between the Live storm and the PTR storm, so it's even closer to the Live storm.
|
Stronger at zoning though because you obviously don't want to take any dmg and the radius is just bigger. I'm not sure it's better vs. libs as they can just unsiege and out, probably resulting in less dmg, but at least you can force the siege. The liberator "bug fix" might be to make it easier for it to escape storm as well.
I like it mostly because it has more synergi with forcefields, 130 dmg is a lot to a ff donut, or if the sorry bugger feels courageous enough to walk through the new weaker storm, ff will now result in more dmg whereas old storm would've alrdy gone out.
|
Bisutopia19299 Posts
This is what storm should have been to begin with imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/aou02v00ssqf1.jpeg)
