On June 15 2012 09:46 Jaiden wrote: I cant see who Widow Mine could ever be useful. Its basically an expensive Baneling which does more damage, must be burrowed before hes of any use and the best of all: hugs the enemy 10 seconds before there is anything like an explosion. great. And it costs 1 Supply.
Protoss and Zerg getting a lot of cool new stuff. They need it. Really. Terran? Id be happy if they keep the Battle Hellion, switch the Warhound with the Goliath and fix all the T3-Units (Thor, BCs and Ghosts). Its a shame that Terran is the only race, that will not rely on them. Thors are atm still the only AA Mech has and the problems are still the same, BCs are just not useful (like Carrier but before we see a fix of that, Blizzard will more likely remove the BCs) and Ghosts are just broken in every way.
If Blizzard could fix that, I'm happy with everything they want to change.
You guys do know Banelings cost 50(25 for the Zergling)/25 with at least a 44 build time right?
The Widow Mine is 75/25 with a 20 build time, and can be reactored.
You all have extremely small imaginations if none of you can see any applications for the Widow Mines.
That doesnt apply. Its nice that its not a Techlab-unit, but you can build 4 Widow Mines (2 Mines at the same time - 20secs+20secs = 40 secs) or 4 Banelings (4x24secs [Zergling] + 20secs Morph to Bane = 44 secs) in roughly the same time. So that isnt the point. I just hate the idea of a copy-pasted unit with a few different stats that doesnt fix the core-problems of a race.
And i see applications for the Widow Mine, but i dont think that i need them. Its nice to have, but at the end where are a ton of other things that would be better. Like real mech anti-air (Thors are just bad) or fixed T3 units.
I want to see a strategy that leads to the use of Battlecruiser. Like Zealot Arcon. Or Ultralisk Banes. Or Infestor Broodlord. Instead terrans engage with mostly basic units, and if the terran is brave, we have 2 or 3 Thors, maybe a couple Ghosts or 2 Battlecruiser. It just feels, the terran technology tree ends without the right units at the end.
On June 15 2012 08:29 Existor wrote: Probably it will create road of creep between two Nydus heads, slowly, but at any distance
What would be the point of that? The point of a Nydus is instant transportation. Adding more creep mechanics is a bit... meh.
It gives you more incentive to use nydus worms, and you can tactically place them across the map to help you with creep spread. This is only one variant of the nydus worm, we have no idea what other forms the nydus worm will have. :D
Widow mine is friendly-splash (at least they're experimenting) so you sort of have to be careful to use it. Imagine a zergling run into widow mine, got strapped, then run toward to Terran army....
Imagine that everything can be scrapped and reworked, including mines.
On June 15 2012 09:46 Jaiden wrote: I cant see who Widow Mine could ever be useful. Its basically an expensive Baneling which does more damage, must be burrowed before hes of any use and the best of all: hugs the enemy 10 seconds before there is anything like an explosion. great. And it costs 1 Supply.
Protoss and Zerg getting a lot of cool new stuff. They need it. Really. Terran? Id be happy if they keep the Battle Hellion, switch the Warhound with the Goliath and fix all the T3-Units (Thor, BCs and Ghosts). Its a shame that Terran is the only race, that will not rely on them. Thors are atm still the only AA Mech has and the problems are still the same, BCs are just not useful (like Carrier but before we see a fix of that, Blizzard will more likely remove the BCs) and Ghosts are just broken in every way.
If Blizzard could fix that, I'm happy with everything they want to change.
You guys do know Banelings cost 50(25 for the Zergling)/25 with at least a 44 build time right?
The Widow Mine is 75/25 with a 20 build time, and can be reactored.
You all have extremely small imaginations if none of you can see any applications for the Widow Mines.
That doesnt apply. Its nice that its not a Techlab-unit, but you can build 4 Widow Mines (2 Mines at the same time - 20secs+20secs = 40 secs) or 4 Banelings (4x24secs [Zergling] + 20secs Morph to Bane = 44 secs) in roughly the same time. So that isnt the point. I just hate the idea of a copy-pasted unit with a few different stats that doesnt fix the core-problems of a race.
And i see applications for the Widow Mine, but i dont think that i need them. Its nice to have, but at the end where are a ton of other things that would be better. Like real mech anti-air (Thors are just bad) or fixed T3 units.
I want to see a strategy that leads to the use of Battlecruiser. Like Zealot Arcon. Or Ultralisk Banes. Or Infestor Broodlord. Instead terrans engage with mostly basic units, and if the terran is brave, we have 2 or 3 Thors, maybe a couple Ghosts or 2 Battlecruiser. It just feels, the terran technology tree ends without the right units at the end.
This I can understand and somewhat agree with. I do look forward to the Widow Mine, but it won't help our lategame.
Widow mine is friendly-splash (at least they're experimenting) so you sort of have to be careful to use it. Imagine a zergling run into widow mine, got strapped, then run toward to Terran army....
Imagine that everything can be scrapped and reworked, including mines.
That also can't happen since killing the strapped target cancels the splash effect.
On June 15 2012 06:03 KonohaFlash wrote:as well as allow the A.I to take control of the other player in the replay and imitate their actions.
Holy crap, that's awesome. So, if I want to work on my defense against the Stephano 12 minute max, I just need to get a replay of Stephano doing it to someone, and the AI will copy the build? I really want to see how that pans out.
On June 15 2012 06:03 KonohaFlash wrote:as well as allow the A.I to take control of the other player in the replay and imitate their actions.
Holy crap, that's awesome. So, if I want to work on my defense against the Stephano 12 minute max, I just need to get a replay of Stephano doing it to someone, and the AI will copy the build? I really want to see how that pans out.
Yes, it will try and replicate the actions of stephano in this case. Obviously it won't be 1:1 but it still has a lot of potential!
does the widow mine seriously do splash damage to it's own units? where is the logic in that? I love how collosus and banelings don't do friendly damage at all. apparently storms hurt protosses own units, but they are already so op that storming your own units does nothing.
On June 15 2012 09:46 Jaiden wrote: I cant see who Widow Mine could ever be useful. Its basically an expensive Baneling which does more damage, must be burrowed before hes of any use and the best of all: hugs the enemy 10 seconds before there is anything like an explosion. great. And it costs 1 Supply.
Protoss and Zerg getting a lot of cool new stuff. They need it. Really. Terran? Id be happy if they keep the Battle Hellion, switch the Warhound with the Goliath and fix all the T3-Units (Thor, BCs and Ghosts). Its a shame that Terran is the only race, that will not rely on them. Thors are atm still the only AA Mech has and the problems are still the same, BCs are just not useful (like Carrier but before we see a fix of that, Blizzard will more likely remove the BCs) and Ghosts are just broken in every way.
If Blizzard could fix that, I'm happy with everything they want to change.
DRG
In ZvT, I got really hurt by mines – it was like if you make mines, you win the game. I hope they fix them, or just remove them altogether.
Flash
It’s [The widow mine is] very powerful. However, it leaves me wanting more.
On June 15 2012 06:06 0neder wrote: .....does he know spider mines were free in brood war? try balancing them another way, or better yet make the hellion faster with moving shot and give it to that unit, or the reaper.
See that's the thing. Widow Mines now cost supply, and as DB was saying they want supply to be moved all over the map, so players stray away from large death balls. They would likely have to increase the cost of the hellion in that case as the widow mine hits both air and ground with splash damage.
It should be interesting to see what pros will be able to do with the unit during the beta.
What if they gave the widow mine to the Raven? I suppose that might be too many abilities on a single unit?
On June 15 2012 09:46 Jaiden wrote: I cant see who Widow Mine could ever be useful. Its basically an expensive Baneling which does more damage, must be burrowed before hes of any use and the best of all: hugs the enemy 10 seconds before there is anything like an explosion. great. And it costs 1 Supply.
Protoss and Zerg getting a lot of cool new stuff. They need it. Really. Terran? Id be happy if they keep the Battle Hellion, switch the Warhound with the Goliath and fix all the T3-Units (Thor, BCs and Ghosts). Its a shame that Terran is the only race, that will not rely on them. Thors are atm still the only AA Mech has and the problems are still the same, BCs are just not useful (like Carrier but before we see a fix of that, Blizzard will more likely remove the BCs) and Ghosts are just broken in every way.
If Blizzard could fix that, I'm happy with everything they want to change.
It’s [The widow mine is] very powerful. However, it leaves me wanting more.
You need to do less theory-crafting -_-;;
I love these people saying the widow mine will be useless and asking for "improvement" to the Thor, ghost and BC. Yet any pro that touches the widow mine says "My god, these things are amazing, like red velvet cup cakes. I must build more of them."
On June 15 2012 10:51 artosismermaid wrote: does the widow mine seriously do splash damage to it's own units? where is the logic in that? I love how collosus and banelings don't do friendly damage at all. apparently storms hurt protosses own units, but they are already so op that storming your own units does nothing.
The logic is that they want the game to be more spread out and less oriented towards death-ball DPScraft. Colossus and banelings are meant to be part of a unit composition. Widow mines are not. Stop comparing apples to oranges.
Also recognize that widow mines can attach to air units. Imagine the defense against muta-balls.
The thing is about entomb, I don't see it being that effective against, say, a Terran who goes PF, which can just bust down the entomb. I predict PF becoming the norm in bases with OC's located next to them or in the main. Does anyone know how much the shield is?
Also, do widow mines splash on friendly units? Do they affect buildings and entomb?
I can see widow mine drops being a major pain in the ass, unless there's a notification that its attached rather than, yknow, "your workers are under attack" and you just see a bunch of dead workers because the mine's gone off already. Holy shit that sounds OP already.
On June 15 2012 12:39 ticklishmusic wrote: The thing is about entomb, I don't see it being that effective against, say, a Terran who goes PF, which can just bust down the entomb. I predict PF becoming the norm in bases with OC's located next to them or in the main. Does anyone know how much the shield is?
Also, do widow mines splash on friendly units? Do they affect buildings and entomb?
I can see widow mine drops being a major pain in the ass, unless there's a notification that its attached rather than, yknow, "your workers are under attack" and you just see a bunch of dead workers because the mine's gone off already. Holy shit that sounds OP already.
Baneling drops do something very similar to workers, minus the advance notification.
On June 15 2012 06:52 Torte de Lini wrote: Why is Chris Sigaty a large part about the LAN and then when will HOTS come out. The rest of it is superb, and you probably could have gone farther if you didn't dig up a dead horse's grave when they generate the same old answers.
eh, he's a large part of bnet in general. yeah, it probably wasn't the best question choice
On June 15 2012 12:39 ticklishmusic wrote: The thing is about entomb, I don't see it being that effective against, say, a Terran who goes PF, which can just bust down the entomb. I predict PF becoming the norm in bases with OC's located next to them or in the main. Does anyone know how much the shield is?
Also, do widow mines splash on friendly units? Do they affect buildings and entomb?
I can see widow mine drops being a major pain in the ass, unless there's a notification that its attached rather than, yknow, "your workers are under attack" and you just see a bunch of dead workers because the mine's gone off already. Holy shit that sounds OP already.
Baneling drops do something very similar to workers, minus the advance notification.
Thing is, I don't know if you get a notification that says "HAI MINE ON YOUR WORKER" or something like that. The more or less guaranteed one kill is pretty nice too.
You need two banelings to connect to kill workers, and they've got to waddle a bit. I believe the splash radius for a widow mine is greater as well, plus it does 200 damage which means that its very likely a guaranteed kill on any worker within that radius.
Spider mines couldn't do this because all the workers hovered slightly, but widow mines, ouch.
On June 15 2012 10:51 artosismermaid wrote: does the widow mine seriously do splash damage to it's own units? where is the logic in that? I love how collosus and banelings don't do friendly damage at all. apparently storms hurt protosses own units, but they are already so op that storming your own units does nothing.
It makes using them challenging and exciting. For example, if you're one of the best players in the world, you can turn them against your opponent, like this:
On June 15 2012 10:51 artosismermaid wrote: does the widow mine seriously do splash damage to it's own units? where is the logic in that? I love how collosus and banelings don't do friendly damage at all. apparently storms hurt protosses own units, but they are already so op that storming your own units does nothing.
It makes using them challenging and exciting. For example, if you're one of the best players in the world, you can turn them against your opponent, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1gHydHWUSg
On June 15 2012 08:30 razy wrote: every time someone says "warhound will make mech viable against toss" something inside me dies.
Yes it will. Except that won't be mech but another goddamn mmm variation. Stop fooling yourself. Mech's core consists of stuff like tanks and mines. NOT effin warhounds or thors (like in modern TvZ), because they are no more than another beefier and more boring marauder variation.
If developers can't come up with any interesting concept than at least implement 3 core components: mines, strong tanks and solid factory anti air. Warhound and thor are anti-mech units, both doing what tanks should've in the first place: kill fucking ground army.
Blizzard loves talking about role overlap and removing iconic units because of that. U know what, I see three units from the same production facility designed to do the same thing.
How much time will it take our beloved company to realize that?
I would've shut up if those two robotic poopsters had some unique roles, like warhound being anti air and thor being added to the mech army solely to tank damage, but sadly that's not the case: these units are there only to do more "terrible, terrible damage". As if we don't have enough of those.
Thank You. My point exactly. Warhound Hellion is just MM, but without the micro -_____-.
EPT
