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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:52 SarcasmMonster wrote: I don't understand why people complain that mech has poor anti-air... it's like complaining that Robo has shitty anti-air. The factory isn't going to give you the answer to everything. the robo units dont have completely different upgrades (armory instead of engi) | ||
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GogoKodo
Canada1785 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:54 Noocta wrote: Well, Raxes do, and no one find that weird. Factory did during BW too.. and it was normal.. Barracks units are almost universally weak to AoE; they need to be massed to be effective. Yes, SC1 Factories gave you everything you needed. And that's why Mech is the dominant build in most vT matches. That is a bad thing; there's shouldn't be a single best strategy. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:54 Noocta wrote: Well, Raxes do, and no one find that weird. Factory did during BW too.. and it was normal.. Yah raxes are amazing against colossi and broodlords. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:56 SarcasmMonster wrote: Shouldn't  complain even more since Robo (the toss equivalent of a factory) has absolutely no anti-air  There is some huge differences. Stalkers are common in all Protoss match ups and share upgrades with Robotics facility units. Terran factory units do not share upgrades with Marines. Thus Terran should have some anti-air coming from the factory. Let me tell you right now what Terran needs in HOTS. First the Hellion stays as is, except it has an upgrade that allows each Hellion to place 1 Flaming Betty Turrets that has 5 range, the same damage as the Hellion (shares the blue flame upgrade too), and a wider arc of fire (giving Terrans map control, a way to defend Tank lines, and a way to defend expansions from Marines/Zealots/Zerglings). Then the Tank stays as is. The Thor is removed or made into a ground specific bruiser. Finally, the Goliath 2.0 is introduced for a cost of 150/50 with 160 HP and 2 armor that does 25 damage per second vs Light and 10 damage per second to everything else on the ground (counters Chargelots with damage and armor) and has a powerful anti-air attack (good vs single air units). You can upgrade the anti-air attack to do splash damage (to counter Mutas specifically). This way the Goliath wouldn't be good vs Roaches/Stalkers/Ultras/Tanks/Marauders/Immortals, but would be great vs light units (except perhaps mass Ling, but you have Hellions and Flaming Betty's for that), thus complementing Tanks well. Basically they are a cheaper lighter version of Thors that deals with Chargelots. These changes would make Terran so much more dynamic and add a lot of viability to Mech play. Furthermore it would force Protoss players into a positional fight with Mech facing off against Stalkers and Robo units, or force Protoss into air units. Then Blizzard just needs to fix the Carrier and we have ourselves a game. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
23 dps(with the missle) vs 14 dps 220 hp(1ar) vs 80/80(1ar) 207 vs 57/80 194 vs 34/80 181 vs 11/80 168 vs 00/69 155 vs 00/47 142 vs 00/25 129 vs 00/03 129 vs 00/00(warhound kill him without the last attack from the stalker cuz it shoot more fast) against two warhound kill one and almost half another so it is worth: 125/50/2 +50% better than a stalker for sure | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Krejven
Sweden105 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:03 Garmer wrote: warhound vs stalker: 23 dps(with the missle) vs 14 dps 220 hp(1ar) vs 80/80(1ar) 207 vs 57/80 194 vs 34/80 181 vs 11/80 168 vs 00/69 155 vs 00/47 142 vs 00/25 129 vs 00/03 129 vs 00/00(warhound kill him without the last attack from the stalker cuz it shoot more fast) against two warhound kill one and almost half another so it is worth: 125/50/2 +50% better than a stalker for sure In a straight up fight perhaps but you forget that stalkers can shoot up, can upgrade blink and share upgrades with 100% of your ground force. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:06 Yaotzin wrote: Like everything in the game is better than a stalker at a straight up fight. It's funny/sad that anyone would even bring it up. Stalker>Viking. I could be wrong though.:D | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:03 Garmer wrote: warhound vs stalker: 23 dps(with the missle) vs 14 dps 220 hp(1ar) vs 80/80(1ar) 207 vs 57/80 194 vs 34/80 181 vs 11/80 168 vs 00/69 155 vs 00/47 142 vs 00/25 129 vs 00/03 129 vs 00/00(warhound kill him without the last attack from the stalker cuz it shoot more fast) against two warhound kill one and almost half another so it is worth: 125/50/2 +50% better than a stalker for sure Don't forget that crazy missile auto-attack doing an additional 30 damage per cooldown, and the fact that Warhounds have +1 range over a Stalker, so better DPS density and probably get the first shot off. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:06 Krejven wrote: In a straight up fight perhaps but you forget that stalkers can shoot up, can upgrade blink and share upgrades with 100% of your ground force. ok, but i also forgot that, the missile have 9 range, therefore you can kite the stalker for a bit On June 10 2012 01:10 SmileZerg wrote: Don't forget that crazy missile auto-attack doing an additional 30 damage per cooldown, and the fact that Warhounds have +1 range over a Stalker, so better DPS density and probably get the first shot off. 23 dps include the missile (23 per 1,3 sec mean almost 18 in 1 sec plus 30 from the missile every 6 sec) | ||
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Sandstorm9
41 Posts
On June 09 2012 17:52 SpecFire wrote: Thank you! very helpful also, wtf, Warhound only 150/75? seems cheap. It's barely slower than a stalker (so it's fast), very powerful and yes, pretty cheap for an a-move unit that even autofires mech units for you. Which i dont understand considering that mech armies are slow so it wont be too hard to focus down the mech units. It's much harder to focus fire the banelings out of a bling army and yet Tanks dont get autofire like that. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:03 Garmer wrote: warhound vs stalker: 23 dps(with the missle) vs 14 dps 220 hp(1ar) vs 80/80(1ar) 207 vs 57/80 194 vs 34/80 181 vs 11/80 168 vs 00/69 155 vs 00/47 142 vs 00/25 129 vs 00/03 129 vs 00/00(warhound kill him without the last attack from the stalker cuz it shoot more fast) against two warhound kill one and almost half another so it is worth: 125/50/2 +50% better than a stalker for sure I think you misunderstand the missile attack. The warhound does 23 damage with its regular. The missile on the other hand Does 30 damage to a single target at range 7 with a 6 second CD. Does not interrupt the Warhound's regular attack. So basically extra DPS. You also didn't take into account attack rate and range, which the Warhound is also superior. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
I'm hereby dubbing the saying "comparing Stalkers with Warhounds". | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:06 Krejven wrote: In a straight up fight perhaps but you forget that stalkers can shoot up, can upgrade blink and share upgrades with 100% of your ground force. The upgrade point is an important aspect that nobody seems to remember. Toss's 3 upgrade categories covers everything they need in most situations as Air is seldom used in PvT. It means that Terran still has to rely on Bio or Starport for AA and those require upgrades or tech. For Bio to even be usable, it needs Stim/CS/Attack/Armor upgrades and an extensive production infrastructure. It's a costly investment. Not to mention this doesn't even address Terran still lacks a viable High Tier unit. The other two races gain siege units and upgraded High Tier units - Ultra Charge, Tempest. Terran also lacks a good initiator for fights. Vipers pull, Tempest has long shots that require the opposing team to actually do something or risk losing important units. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 09 2012 18:32 Garmer wrote: they have 6 range for attachment, even if you reveal them, you need a siege weapon, they are pretty overpowered for they cost, because aside from ling they always return their cost(every other unit cost equal or more than these mines) Then suicide lings, or prepare yourself to quit sc2 and try bw :p | ||
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Azide
Canada566 Posts
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They will prolly make me cry when i try roach bust ling xD
