07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here
10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.
08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.
Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.
(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
step 1: move out to defend invisible warp prism
step 2: balk at defending invisible warp prism + 3 zealots because of invisible army
I have only one problem : show us the entire replay , not only fragments that you like.
i did post the replay a page or 2 ago. will add to both posts with videos though
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
Why are you calling him names? Try discussing like a human being.
Well how many just decided to this makes things clear from just the 2 videos without watching the replay ? Well watch the replay and you will see the protoss gets away with nexus before gateway , hidden nexus , a lot of warp prism haras there is a fight that happens like 10 before he starts showing us where you can see the protoss army movment. I think he map hacks but not here ... Let me give you this scenario i have a zerling at the watchtower at min 20 , you come with a huge army and kill it at 20:30 and just show a movie where from 20:30 i move my army and build more units without vision. Everyone would say i have map hack.
in what context do the locked cam + clicks at that location at that time make sense?
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
I don't usually report people, but I made an exception for you. Well not really in fact since someone beat me to it...
The clicks he made under the warp prism were too precise to have been made with the minimap. + he moves there before seeing warpprism. + he suddendly backs away when alej's army comes (without him seeing it)
Things just don't add up, I don't see why you would call him "pathetic" for that...
On June 06 2012 19:51 GuitarBizarre wrote: Someone should upload some bronze replays and claim the players are hacking. The analysis would be fucking hilarious.
This is actually pretty funny. When Catz did his thing, I caught myself thinking "hey that could be me". When you see spades stopping all actions for a second I think of myself tabbing down to change a track or whatever. I think a fair amount of overanalysing is going on ^^
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
So the context was: Spades had just lost a fight with the protoss army between their bases and retreated with what remains. He's at his third base gathering his forces when a WP moves in and warps 3 zealots at the 4th base. He starts moving his entire army down the ramp of the second base but stops because he's not an idiot, who in their right mind would move his entire army (or split his army) up into a dead end when there most likely is a protoss army (which just beat you) in the middle of the map waiting to pounce on you. Also fun to note, he finally moves up the ramp with his army... and loses it entirely to the protoss ball which was waiting outside to pounce, another "hacking" game where he loses... go figure.
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
Watch more than just the one replay. Not that it'd help, since clearly you've already made up your mind.
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
welcome to teamliquid i guess
1. every time the camera locks the only actions are hotkeys. this is true throughout the entire replay.
2. he hadn't seen the army at that point, did not scan a single time since the engagement and only sees the three zealots. what within his vision at that time would elicit the reaction you see at 21:40?
1. The moment you showed from 21:30 that he "freezez his screen" he sends his raven and gets it repaired and adds to control 1 marauders marines. And the reason why he didn't go up the reamp ... it's showen at 20:40 but you never posted that. 2. Then why don't you show what happed at 20:50. The earliest you show in your videos is 21:00. At 20:53 is the last time he sees your army.
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
I don't usually report people, but I made an exception for you. Well not really in fact since someone beat me to it...
The clicks he made under the warp prism were too precise to have been made with the minimap. + he moves there before seeing warpprism. + he suddendly backs away when alej's army comes (without him seeing it)
Things just don't add up, I don't see why you would call him "pathetic" for that...
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
welcome to teamliquid i guess
1. every time the camera locks the only actions are hotkeys. this is true throughout the entire replay.
2. he hadn't seen the army at that point, did not scan a single time since the engagement and only sees the three zealots. what within his vision at that time would elicit the reaction you see at 21:40?
1. The moment you showed from 21:30 that he "freezez his screen" he sends his raven and gets it repaired and adds to control 1 marauders marines. And the reason why he didn't go up the reamp ... it's showen at 20:40 but you never posted that. 2. Then why don't you show what happed at 20:50. The earliest you show in your videos is 21:00. At 20:53 is the last time he sees your army.
fraps creates files that are too large to include a lot of time before and after. i'll upload an xsplit manual recording shortly
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
I don't usually report people, but I made an exception for you. Well not really in fact since someone beat me to it...
The clicks he made under the warp prism were too precise to have been made with the minimap. + he moves there before seeing warpprism. + he suddendly backs away when alej's army comes (without him seeing it)
Things just don't add up, I don't see why you would call him "pathetic" for that...
Watch the replay please.
You're not being rude anymore. Good. Now please respond to the points. I can watch the replay a thousand times and still agree with the claims just made by the others. Arguments are made with evidence in conjunction with hypotheses. The latter you need to provide.
The most interesting thing is that Spades clicks something like 5 times where the WP is coming in while not looking there. That doesn't look like minimap clicking. The way to disprove this is to take a replay that looks like Spades isn't hacking (pick from an earlier time, or take another person entirely for circumstantial evidence) and show that he spams clicks precisely using the minimap.
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
welcome to teamliquid i guess
1. every time the camera locks the only actions are hotkeys. this is true throughout the entire replay.
2. he hadn't seen the army at that point, did not scan a single time since the engagement and only sees the three zealots. what within his vision at that time would elicit the reaction you see at 21:40?
1. The moment you showed from 21:30 that he "freezez his screen" he sends his raven and gets it repaired and adds to control 1 marauders marines. And the reason why he didn't go up the reamp ... it's showen at 20:40 but you never posted that. 2. Then why don't you show what happed at 20:50. The earliest you show in your videos is 21:00. At 20:53 is the last time he sees your army.
fraps creates files that are too large to include a lot of time before and after. i'll upload an xsplit manual recording shortly
Do you consider the fact he lost his army in the middle 10 sec before is an important factor ? Us knowing about it is it or it is not a big factor ? And again a freeze screen means he : spams hotkeys and does nothing else. How could you watch in another place and select the raven and repair it ?
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
I don't usually report people, but I made an exception for you. Well not really in fact since someone beat me to it...
The clicks he made under the warp prism were too precise to have been made with the minimap. + he moves there before seeing warpprism. + he suddendly backs away when alej's army comes (without him seeing it)
Things just don't add up, I don't see why you would call him "pathetic" for that...
Watch the replay please.
You're not being rude anymore. Good. Now please respond to the points. I can watch the replay a thousand times and still agree with the claims just made by the others. Arguments are made with evidence in conjunction with hypotheses. The latter you need to provide.
The most interesting thing is that Spades clicks something like 5 times where the WP is coming in while not looking there. That doesn't look like minimap clicking. The way to disprove this is to take a replay that looks like Spades isn't hacking (pick from an earlier time, or take another person entirely for circumstantial evidence) and show that he spams clicks precisely using the minimap.
Very fancy words there , that could go in a long talk but let's keep to the game . The 5 clicks are like 1/3 of a screen a part. You are telling me someone who got grandmaster in late games with map hack/ without clicks so badly ? Let's be serious it's 1/3 screen apart.
why does it seem in every case like this, where a really minor personality gets caught in some controversy, the only people defending him have <200 posts. just strikes me as odd that the only people who are asking for scientific proof when thats impossible are people who never take part in discussion unless their favorite player is involved. strikes me as odd.
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote: i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.
screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,
screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video
1. the lock at same time hotkey spam is not really a hotkey spam open your rageing eyes. He selects all his army in ctrl 1. 2. The move his army exactly when my warp prism comes is like : he knew your army was coming NOT THE WARP PRISM ... but hey you never showed that in your little movies... WHY ?
By the way i watched THE ENTIRE replay and you can see it was logical to move and defend that base. It is pretty sad that there were 5-6 posts after the replay was posted that say he map hacks and they don't even watch the replay.
I don't usually report people, but I made an exception for you. Well not really in fact since someone beat me to it...
The clicks he made under the warp prism were too precise to have been made with the minimap. + he moves there before seeing warpprism. + he suddendly backs away when alej's army comes (without him seeing it)
Things just don't add up, I don't see why you would call him "pathetic" for that...
Watch the replay please.
You're not being rude anymore. Good. Now please respond to the points. I can watch the replay a thousand times and still agree with the claims just made by the others. Arguments are made with evidence in conjunction with hypotheses. The latter you need to provide.
The most interesting thing is that Spades clicks something like 5 times where the WP is coming in while not looking there. That doesn't look like minimap clicking. The way to disprove this is to take a replay that looks like Spades isn't hacking (pick from an earlier time, or take another person entirely for circumstantial evidence) and show that he spams clicks precisely using the minimap.
Very fancy words there , that could go in a long talk but let's keep to the game . The 5 clicks are like 1/3 of a screen a part. You are telling me someone who got grandmaster in late games with map hack/ without clicks so badly ? Let's be serious it's 1/3 screen apart.
Just being precise. And you are not. The clicks are 2-5 scv sizes apart. Definitely not 1/3 of the screen apart.
Edit: @turdburgler (I secretly hate you for having me type that name) It's perfectly reasonable. People new to TL have not had experience of similar arguments before, and do not yet see all the details and thus the way in which their arguments will get countered. It's part of a natural learning process to be wrong. And, note, I'm not claiming that the freshmen in this thread are all wrong. It's often useful to go through the steps like this even for those that think they know better.
On June 06 2012 22:20 humanplayer wrote: this is a load of shit, maybe we shoudl ask the great blizzard gods if its even possible to hack their impenetrable DRM
On June 06 2012 21:15 budar wrote: From all the evidence I've seen (pretty much Catz's analysis and this video above) and assuming this "evidence" has been presented in good faith (i.e. wasn't fabricated or something) I'm thinking the "likelihood" of him NOT hacking is less than 1%.
It would be kind of tragic if he wasn't hacking and got this much flak, but at this point this sounds like science fiction to me. As far as I can understand the cheater mentality, it is kind of understandable that he doesn't want to admit it. With a history of hacking, he wound't get a "third chance" anyway. He can always say that you can't prove it (because you can't).
I bet in the next few days someone will come up with a way to prove it, just as with flag in bw. We have a smart and extremely stubborn bunch in this community.
I am really curious on what happens when it's confirmed he is a hacker. Will he actually get another chance? I hope not. Even more interesting would it be if he was not hacking. The whole community would need to apologies for this...
not me i am going with the undecided but innocent until guilty approach.
Oh yeah yeah me too! But still a big part of the community...
i think we all should start hacking so no one has an advantage and will get indicted by anyone again {sarkasm-mode}. i mean watch the na ladder, its full of hack-users... if you dont believe go to the known and weirdly enough in this thread mentioned pages.
EPT
