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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 230

Forum Index > SC2 General
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
GuitarBizarre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom332 Posts
June 06 2012 10:51 GMT
#4581
Someone should upload some bronze replays and claim the players are hacking. The analysis would be fucking hilarious.
In retrospect, I don't know how you can play StarCraft without swearing. - Eifer
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
June 06 2012 11:02 GMT
#4582
On June 06 2012 18:28 ceaRshaf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 18:13 starcraft911 wrote:
On June 06 2012 18:00 ceaRshaf wrote:
I didn't watch all the Catz analysis but only 1 hour.

They made such a fuss about the unsiegeing at minute 35 but didn't one bother to think "hey, if this guy can see the whole map, why didn't he defended his 3rd AND the drop in his base?"

They even managed to find evidence that there was a slight chance of Spade to see that drop incoming. From that point on I didn't bother to follow their analysis because I did not agree with their reasoning. This is not how you judge a person.

People get on board on the negative aspects of ESPORTS so easy it's sad. This guy could be a fair player and this community painted him in black just from speculations.


Because you're looking at a guy who's very familiar with hacking. 10+ years of playing RTS and prior admission of having hacked. If you're going to hack you can't make it obvious like Impa or you're going to get found out and exposed. TT1 said it best, sometimes you have to just lose to DTs.

The other thing worth mentioning is that even pros miss stuff. I've seen a lot of pro BW players miss incoming drops that they should had vision of because they were focused on another area. Just because you have maphack doesn't mean your attention is always at the point where it matters.

It's a maphack... it gives you information, it doesn't play the game for you.

On June 06 2012 18:02 mTwTT1 wrote:
On June 06 2012 17:58 starcraft911 wrote:
On June 06 2012 17:50 RuMCaKe wrote:
What really irritates me about this the most, is that someone is willing to make a post, that potentially destroys someones career, but hides behind a smurf to conceal who they are. Why would someone do this? If you are confident in what your saying, there is no reason to hide. Only reason I can think of, is you were afraid the community would say your wrong, and then you'd be the one that looks bad.

I don't know what to think about the whole thing, I haven't watched the replays, and I am not planning on doing so, that being said, I don't want to put my opinion in on if I think he actually cheated or not. It just really bothers me the OP didn't want people to know who he really was.


TL knows who it is, but they have chosen not to reveal the identity at the current time. They stated that they may choose to do so at a later time.

I think it's better for the OP to be anonymous personally because it keeps people from looking for ulterior motives in the OP. If you're looking at this objectively without bias it shouldn't matter who the OP is. If the OP is full of shit then you'll be able to discern that from the evidence.

Though, out of curiosity I'd like to know who it is. My guess is probably a masters level player who just saw some inconsistencies and isn't a pro, but that's just a hunch.


i think hes someone known or else they wouldnt be deliberating over whether or not to reveal his identity


Yea, I can see that as well. My reasoning behind thinking it was a mid masters was based on the analysis of the game provided by the OP, but yea... that's really not saying much. You're probably right.


The fact that he could have staged all his mistakes proves nothing. It's a point that is made to accuse a hacker even if his decision making doesn't look like the ones of hackers. So that action of not defending his 3rd is not part of a conspiracy when deciding if he is hacking but it's proof that he may be not hacking.

If you analyze his replays with the mindset "oh, every mistake he makes is intentional just not to be obvious that he is hacking" then we might as well call him a hacker and be done with it.

It's like you claim the killer of a woman is her husband and I tell you "but he looked like he really loved her" and you tell me "lol, but he could have faked that so hard and easy". That's just bs. We can't accuse people on stuff like this.




What if this hypothetical person had been convicted previously of murdering his last wife?
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
June 06 2012 11:05 GMT
#4583
Athletes who haven't won shit have been banned from competition for taking performing enhancing drugs. If the lawyer said 'if my client had taken drugs, he would have won. Therefore, he is clean,' he would be laughed out of the court room.

Furthermore, to those looking for conclusive proof and to not do anything otherwise, you are saying 'feel free to use production tab hack and minimap hack and drop ping, because there is zero way to prove any of these.' It's actually quite worrying how people aren't taking this seriously, or taking a very liberal approach to the matter. The evidence is overwhelming, but not conclusive, but that should be enough. To put history into perspective, all the people in BW who had extremely hacky play, and who vehemently defended themselves in the matter that spades did (and is doing) turned out to be guilty. Those like Haypro, who had a hack on unintentionally, and self confessed this, didn't play the victim, took the punishment for the good of the scene and returned with zero reputation tarnish.
polyphonyEX
Profile Joined May 2012
United States2539 Posts
June 06 2012 11:07 GMT
#4584
time to watch and learn moon. This is how you shut down protoss air.
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 11:12:59
June 06 2012 11:12 GMT
#4585
To be honest, he should have never been given a second chance in the first place, especially after denying it so hard in the first place. (His initial defense style is identical to the current one, BTW)
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
June 06 2012 11:26 GMT
#4586
On June 06 2012 20:05 Micket wrote:
Athletes who haven't won shit have been banned from competition for taking performing enhancing drugs. If the lawyer said 'if my client had taken drugs, he would have won. Therefore, he is clean,' he would be laughed out of the court room.

Furthermore, to those looking for conclusive proof and to not do anything otherwise, you are saying 'feel free to use production tab hack and minimap hack and drop ping, because there is zero way to prove any of these.' It's actually quite worrying how people aren't taking this seriously, or taking a very liberal approach to the matter. The evidence is overwhelming, but not conclusive, but that should be enough. To put history into perspective, all the people in BW who had extremely hacky play, and who vehemently defended themselves in the matter that spades did (and is doing) turned out to be guilty. Those like Haypro, who had a hack on unintentionally, and self confessed this, didn't play the victim, took the punishment for the good of the scene and returned with zero reputation tarnish.


A handful of games in a row of not clicking enemy units was proof of hacks in BW.

Going from looking at fog prior to a scan every game for 10+ years to never looking at fog in series that matter is chalked up to luck in sc2.
NrG.Bamboo
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2756 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 11:34:45
June 06 2012 11:34 GMT
#4587
On June 06 2012 20:26 starcraft911 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 20:05 Micket wrote:
Athletes who haven't won shit have been banned from competition for taking performing enhancing drugs. If the lawyer said 'if my client had taken drugs, he would have won. Therefore, he is clean,' he would be laughed out of the court room.

Furthermore, to those looking for conclusive proof and to not do anything otherwise, you are saying 'feel free to use production tab hack and minimap hack and drop ping, because there is zero way to prove any of these.' It's actually quite worrying how people aren't taking this seriously, or taking a very liberal approach to the matter. The evidence is overwhelming, but not conclusive, but that should be enough. To put history into perspective, all the people in BW who had extremely hacky play, and who vehemently defended themselves in the matter that spades did (and is doing) turned out to be guilty. Those like Haypro, who had a hack on unintentionally, and self confessed this, didn't play the victim, took the punishment for the good of the scene and returned with zero reputation tarnish.


A handful of games in a row of not clicking enemy units was proof of hacks in BW.

Going from looking at fog prior to a scan every game for 10+ years to never looking at fog in series that matter is chalked up to luck in sc2.

This is a pretty funny comparison, as it is completely true. I do worry that Blizzard won't be as effective as they should be in antihack updating and whatnot; the ability for the community to develop its own antihacks (such as all of the launchers used for leagues in BW) makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

Unfortunately, it does not appear that that can be the case whatsoever in SC2.
I need to protect all your life you can enjoy the vibrant life of your battery
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 12:14:09
June 06 2012 11:38 GMT
#4588
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable


note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O

replay: http://drop.sc/130143
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Sepi
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland231 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 11:49:10
June 06 2012 11:45 GMT
#4589
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


Great find!

What raises the question for me is, that WHY would he move his army JUST on the right time to his 4th when he was defending his nat and 3rd.

Once again very fishy. Could be concidence, but moving the WHOLE army JUST the right time seems really suspicious.

Your exactly right that cam lock could also take place in that occasion.

[Edit.]

And for "right time" i mean just a bit beforehand.
♞live like a windrammer as you fuck ♞
Neurosis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 11:52:31
June 06 2012 11:47 GMT
#4590
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


It doesn't get anymore conclusive than that. That proves 100 percent that his camera is locked no? (And also that he is pre moving towards an invisible warp prism)
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
June 06 2012 11:56 GMT
#4591
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


HAHAHA, on top of everything else this is just soooooooooo funny. Thanks for posting, had a good laugh.
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
samthesaluki
Profile Joined November 2010
914 Posts
June 06 2012 11:56 GMT
#4592
the fact the guy jumped the replay and didnt have player cam turned on you mean yeah camera is locked because he has it on his own camera not players idiot.

User was warned for this post

User was warned for this post
Greenwizard
Profile Joined June 2012
48 Posts
June 06 2012 11:57 GMT
#4593
On June 06 2012 20:47 Neurosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


It doesn't get anymore conclusive than that. That proves 100 percent that his camera is locked no? (And also that he is pre moving towards an invisible warp prism)


Ok if you mean the less then 2 sec or the moment he adds all his army to ctrl 1 ? Because that's what i see if i watch and try to be fair.
Romance_us
Profile Joined March 2006
Seychelles1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 12:00:31
June 06 2012 11:57 GMT
#4594
On June 06 2012 20:56 samthesaluki wrote:
the fact the guy jumped the replay and didnt have player cam turned on you mean yeah camera is locked because he has it on his own camera not players idiot.


It's the fact that he's pre-clicking his army there before the warp prism comes into vision. Camera lock is absolutely irrelevant here and I don't know why anybody is mentioning it. It's purely that he's pre-clicking without any knowledge of that play whatsoever from his opponent.

edited for manners
Notes and feelings, numbers and reason. The ultimate equilibrium.
Santiago4ever
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden299 Posts
June 06 2012 11:59 GMT
#4595
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


Because spamming hotkeys that does nothing isn't what top players do with their spare apm? I thought you couldn't issue move commands while camera lock is on without breaking the lock? Probably just moved on minimap? I've watched through a lot of his replays from ladder games and he uses the mini-map to issue move commands to his armies a lot.
Ernest Hemingway once wrote: The world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part.
Seohce
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom394 Posts
June 06 2012 12:00 GMT
#4596
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


You're not on Spade's view after you skip the replay... ?
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 12:14:31
June 06 2012 12:01 GMT
#4597
i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.

screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,

screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video



step 1: move out to defend invisible warp prism

step 2: balk at defending invisible warp prism + 3 zealots because of invisible army

replay: http://drop.sc/130143
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
June 06 2012 12:02 GMT
#4598
On June 06 2012 20:56 samthesaluki wrote:
the fact the guy jumped the replay and didnt have player cam turned on you mean yeah camera is locked because he has it on his own camera not players idiot.


Hahahaha this is too funny. Can you upload the video again with player cam on plz.. lol
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
June 06 2012 12:03 GMT
#4599
On June 06 2012 21:00 Seohce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 20:38 Alejandrisha wrote:
here's a snippet from the rep i uploaded. part 2 will show what happens right after which is just as, if not more questionable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pMf4b4yjXM&feature=youtu.be

note with clock: the move commands to defend the invisible warp prism take place when camera is locked.
when his camera is locked, he just spams hotkeys to give the impression that he is actually doing stuff, but none of the actions take place on the camera screen.

you be the judge O_O


You're not on Spade's view after you skip the replay... ?


no i'm just showing you the blue clicks on the ground. they occur simultaneously with the first screen, but i cannot show you that from spade's camera because his camera doesn't move there!
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
June 06 2012 12:03 GMT
#4600
On June 06 2012 21:01 Alejandrisha wrote:
i'm showing you the same time frame of 2 different screens.

screen 1 - lock at same time hotkey spam and lack of on screen actions, DOES NOT MOVE CAMERA TO 4TH BASE,

screen 2 - actions given when camera is still locked on his army, though those clicks are quite clearly done on screen. magically, wp appears. here's the 2nd video

http://youtu.be/sOZSHu_u4cw

step 1: move out to defend invisible warp prism

step 2: balk at defending invisible warp prism + 3 zealots because of invisible army



There might be something that happened before that let him know about the army but just from this it looks really suspicious...
Every person with this amount of information would have defended the base instead of evacuating the workers against 3 Zealots.
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