On April 12 2012 04:49 dCc wrote: Protoss needs the tempest. Still no hard counter to mass mutas. Range phoenixes aren't practical as large numbers of them can't do much else and the tech switch takes time.
If you're still losing to mass mutas you are doing something wrong.
Storms pretty much shut mutas down - they normally go for base trade though. There are too many hard counters in this game, stop asking for more.
if phoenixes with 6range aren't a counter to mass mutas nothing will
On April 12 2012 04:13 413X wrote: I accually get quite furious reading this. How long has the game been out now? 2 years if we count beta. What the hell have they been doing meanwhile? They literally came up with their ideas, made them, showed them to everyone then trashed most of them. Doesn't these guys have a crew that test units?
But that's not what happened. They showed us a snapshot of the game development in progress. That's all. They did this for 3 years of SC2's development, where many, many things changed.
The Thor we saw at BlizzCon 07? Nothing like what was released. Banshees at 07 were practically flying cloaked Siege Tanks; now they're single-target only. Ghosts had Marine call-down. Cobras disappeared entirely.
And that's just some of the changes.
If you can't stand to see a game in tumultous development, then you are invited to not watch HotS's development and just buy it (or don't) when it comes out. Otherwise, watch the process, comment on what you see, and move on.
Basically, your assumption is that Blizzard made these changes because of community outcry. That's nonsense; Blizzard made these changes because Blizzard wanted to change them, and for no other reason. Blizzard did not use the community to playtest. Indeed, community outcry was probably their weakest piece of information, since most of it came from people who hadn't played it.
On April 12 2012 04:49 dCc wrote: Protoss needs the tempest. Still no hard counter to mass mutas. Range phoenixes aren't practical as large numbers of them can't do much else and the tech switch takes time.
If you're still losing to mass mutas you are doing something wrong.
Storms pretty much shut mutas down - they normally go for base trade though. There are too many hard counters in this game, stop asking for more.
if phoenixes with 6range aren't a counter to mass mutas nothing will
Just curious, has anyone seen the phoenix range upgrade used in tournament play?
I totally forgot it existed until I saw this dev blog =/
Oh yes, oh yes. Please cut the Thor (and Colossus!). Not sure about the Zerg units (definitely don't like feeding on minerals bit) and the Terran missile-launcher.
Does Protoss really need another way to quickly get units at one of their bases? I thought that, you know, Warp Gates were pretty good at that already.
And does the Terran really need Hellions to transform, or another type of Nuke? I want the Predator in competitive play. I don't care what it does, but... robot panthers! Hell yes!
Terran could use something that does splash damage to ground and is less fragile than Hellions; Zerg, I don't know... maybe a zone control unit like the Lurker? And Protoss just needs the Carrier to be better. Give the Interceptors hardened shield or something.
Some of these other units sound interesting, but I'll have to see them in practice first. Most of them sound pretty questionable from just the descriptions.
On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote: starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2.
This has opened my eyes. Best post in this thread. Agree 100%
You don't need a post to open your eyes. After I watched several games of competitive BW, even if I was a SC2 player and started with SC2, I already knew something was wrong and irreversible within the game design. Also this video shows it
we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
This is what I meant by having my eyes opened. Yes I realised long time ago something was off especially compared to BW but somehow seeing it written down and explained so simply made it so much more clearer and obvious
It's nice and all that you don't like sc2, but it is a really good game, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't. There are people who don't like bw for whatever reason and think it is worse, it's all opinion. It obviously is a good esport if people think it is, people don't lie to themselves on what they enjoy. There are people who enjoy watching and playing sc2, and some only enjoy watching, they obviously enjoy it as why would you force yourself to watch something you don't like or think is mediocre as you seem to think?
I am fine with bw players not liking sc2, I love both but it is super annoying to see you guys just rip on sc2 constantly and then complain when some people go to the bw forum and say something you disagree with when you do the same thing.
It's a community thing. The mere fact that a lot of other people watch it makes you feel like you're a part of something.
Like watching LoL, or the superbowl.
hint: SC2 appeals to casuals, casuals exist in droves
Even though SC2 is not as mechanically difficult as BW I don't really think it caters to casuals in the same way other games do.
This being said what game hasn't been characterized as "for casuals" nowadays
On April 12 2012 03:00 Odal wrote: So what's the point of the tempest? And what does the tempest do that a slightly tweaked carrier couldn't? I feel like an artist designed a cool ship model and now they are doing anything they can to squeeze it into the game, lol.
It can serve a splash damage role anti-air.
It also isn't crippled by marines, which is a big problem with the carriers viability in SC2. A ball of tightly packed marines (or even hydras) just shred interceptors apart, and if you give them enough health to survive that they become OP against everything else. The interceptor just doesn't fit within the SC2 engine with a lot of damage and firepower in tighter formations, BW obviously was different.
Maybe if you were forced to make units more slowly due to less income. Hmmm...
Haha, Barrin. <3
Anyway, I'm interested in the recall on the nexus. I hope it requires ~150 energy and has a pretty small radius, closer to recall than mass recall. If it was like that I think it would be a good addition.
It would also add more use for having more bases if you play protoss. Hmmm...
I'd be fine with this seeing as how the Nexus only has 100 energy
On April 12 2012 05:33 Nizzy wrote: Everything just seems like such a mess its unreal.
Spider air mine? How about just give us spider mines on reapers or something so they get used more.
I've wanted this since beta. If anyone can debunk this being a good idea, please do.
On April 12 2012 05:34 Xxio wrote: Oh yes, oh yes. Please cut the Thor (and Colossus!). Not sure about the Zerg units (definitely don't like feeding on minerals bit) and the Terran missile-launcher.
If anything, why minerals? I mean seriously, what's wrong with just having consume? Not EVERYTHING has to be new, especially when a lot of the best RTS spellcaster spell ideas were used in BW.
On April 12 2012 05:34 Xxio wrote: Oh yes, oh yes. Please cut the Thor (and Colossus!). Not sure about the Zerg units (definitely don't like feeding on minerals bit) and the Terran missile-launcher.
If anything, why minerals? I mean seriously, what's wrong with just having consume? Not EVERYTHING has to be new, especially when a lot of the best RTS spellcaster spell ideas were used in BW.
I'm guessing production rate for new zerg is too high for consumes
but the mineral one isn't that bad. you could eat your opponent's minerals too, right?
It's also worth noting that a Dark Swarm type spell would encourage unit clumping, whereas a Disruption Web type spell would encourage spreading. SC2 needs more spreading, so I support a spell more like Disruption Web, and what they showed at Blizzcon. I want more abilities like this that encourage players to spread their units.
On April 12 2012 05:34 Xxio wrote: Oh yes, oh yes. Please cut the Thor (and Colossus!). Not sure about the Zerg units (definitely don't like feeding on minerals bit) and the Terran missile-launcher.
If anything, why minerals? I mean seriously, what's wrong with just having consume? Not EVERYTHING has to be new, especially when a lot of the best RTS spellcaster spell ideas were used in BW.
think of it like this: terrainreliance. i think that makes the mineral consume idea very interesting.