EPTPretty epic game. If anyone can remember it, please let us know the players' names and the tourney.
Why is the Nydus Worm underused? - Page 5
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Pretty epic game. If anyone can remember it, please let us know the players' names and the tourney. | ||
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Waah
United States120 Posts
It could prove useful for reinforcing an attack I suppose, but as a player hits lair tech they'd rather use the gas somewhere else. | ||
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand878 Posts
the main reason nyduses arent used defensively is because of its unloading speed, in bw nyduses unloaded all the units as soon as tjhey went in and could be used to renforce an expansion super quickly. in sc2 all your units unload one by one. they cant make it so it unloads faster like bw either due to nyduses now being able to be planted anywhere rather than only on creep. | ||
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Phyrful
United States248 Posts
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Splynn
United States225 Posts
Where it really shined was in base defense, sort of similar to how JD uses nydus in BW. Instead of taking a close third, I take the third on the other side of the map. With good vision I can see your army coming to kill it, and start unloading the nydus before you get there. If you undercommit, I kill the force and hop back into the nydus; you are behind. If you fully commit I either defend and win or retreat and rebuild the third, safe in the fact that your army is on the other side of the map. Or popping it up behind your army as it advances; using it similar to how Protoss uses pylons in pushes. constantly teleporting speedlings across the map and leaning with them is pretty good. Or while pushing the third pop a nydus up pretty close to the second. I don't like these as much as defense, but it can certainly work. They're also pretty damn good for base races. Why don't we see zerg doing these things? Because what zerg is doing right now is working pretty fine for them. Doing these things is more work than they need to do to win games. But as the game evolves these things might be more important to zerg strategy. And I wouldn't be opposed to a nydus hp buff; they die so easily... | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
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oxxo
988 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Another reason is that Nydus is generally used really badly, when you see someone getting 2 networks, you will often see them close together, they are pretty durable and splitting them up would really help defending, of course only if both positions are only at risk by drops. You will often see no order when entering the nydus, so lings will be the first to enter and alot mentioned the bad unload speed, well lings are a bad idea to unload first. Having 2 banelings in your nydus first is a pretty good defense against marine drops, especially if they try to snipe the nydus. Also zerg is currently going deathball style, which is pretty gas intensive and they need every bit of gas after they lost their army to remax on it and they plunk their overmins into statics, replacing the defensive use of nydus. Offensively its useful in some cases, first of all saving your units, most map are open so this problem presents itself rarely, but running your army on a 4 player map into a main, where no player spawned, can be pretty nasty, so using the nydus will save you tons of gas. Also in the lategame, mains are often really exposed at 200 supply (toss starts to keep staying below 200 because they can still deny drops) really easy to nydus there and creep the whole opponents main and destroying production. And also being home before the conter arrives. My favorite is the hydra pressure, on t2 hydras are really fast available, so you can do a really fast attack paired with the nydus especially against forge fast expands (lately toss loves to get the voidray, and there nydus is no good idea) Also i think because of this the network goes for 200. (its really hard for the toss to hold if they played to greedy) Defensively i actually prefer to get the network, because of its 850 hp also no sound is nice, and that you can drop double worms. It helps that you won't cut off your reproduction if the opponent is positioned well and you can get out things for a flank, save workers etc. They could actually buff the unload time of the network, to make its defensive use stronger, without affected anything on the offensive(nydus got nerfed because of the offensive so no buffs go into that direction, but like with the reaper i think they overnerfed nydus). Anyway for ultras and hydras, the nydus is a really helpful tool and will save you tons of gas. For heavy t1 play, the nydus also is really helpful as you can reinforce way faster (i use the nydus in zvz to get my reinforcements even faster then my opponent). Infestor broodlord, no need for a nydus there, unless ... Metropolis, Nydus here grants you 2 island expos with no need for air dominance, that is 4 extractors, mass drops are risky because of infestors, single drops will do no damage unless you put lings first in the nydus. Nydus works like this on other maps as well, but not that noob friendly. Anyway with broodlord infestor being the playstyle, i don't think we need to discuss over the nydus every month, so search function next time, all that was said, was said there. (well not the metropolis part) But the nydus works really well, unless you plan on going for air units or lings :p. (lings are faster without the nydus) Feels pretty much like an sc2 nuke, hard to get damage done with it, but if they don't stop it its worth it and every 20 nydus you do a bullseye. (probably not like the nuke killing the whole army, but i sometimes got the whole production). And if you nydus you don't really plan on losing any units, so you gain gas, while the nydus will keep the opponent busy. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
Why not toss a few more HP onto it? Not enough to really matter, but enough to get people to bother? More maps with islands will hopefully also encourage additional nydus play. | ||
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ropumar
Brazil111 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On March 01 2012 13:35 `Zapdos wrote: Because workers can kill them, they cost gas each time you want to make a new one, and yes they are used but they tend to not be very effective except in late game for getting from one place to another very fast. Trying to use it to attack into someones base is usually useless. this...they are so easy to spot and 5 workers can stop it from going up. i hope that one day people in sc2 will use nydus just like in bw | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
If it was only minerals, like a warp prism, they would always be used in nearly every game. Since it cost so much gas, it's rarely being used. The one decent use for it is a 2 base hydra ling all in... or, I guess, super late game when you can nydus to drop ultras into several different bases with lings to take out structures. | ||
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
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Berailfor
441 Posts
I think once zergs realize how valuable they can be and how scary in general they can be (forcing tons of edge buildings for vision etc) they will start using them more lategame when money isn't a big issue. Its such a cheap investment lategame for it's potential damage. And like other people said, for multiple-purpose uses like having more mobility around your side of the map or for rallied units if your pushing the enemy (while trying to sneak one in opponents main or 3rd  ) | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Imo it's a basetrade tool, nothing more. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On March 01 2012 13:34 AcrosstheSky wrote: Metagame hasn't got there yet. Once zergs learn to start using them it'll become more than a cheese option. This may be part of it, or it may be that Sensor towers and Pylons hard-counter Nydus worms. I actually think that Overlord Zergling and Infestor drops are also not in the meta, and may never be in it, since the reason to use them was because of the power of the Ghost. Now, you just make broodlord/infestor instead and kill the terran instead of whittling away at his bases and eventually trying to kill his ghost/tank 'deathball'. Though, it might possibly be headed there anyway, with how slow both ravens and ghosts are. EDIT: Spanishiwa actually did ultra/queen/nydus in a game on husky's channel a while ago. Somewhere in this absolutely amazing post is a mini-guide on something called the 'Nydus Dance'. I highly recommend checking it out. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Also nydus needing a tech building means it's too easy to counter. Once you know they have it, you just prepare for it. Perhaps if it didn't require the building, it would be perfect. | ||
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