EPTWhy is the Nydus Worm underused? - Page 4
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BadgKat
United States156 Posts
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BlondeOna
Australia89 Posts
They have their niche uses though, and I'm sure high level zergs have experimented with them a lot, and the results are the niche uses you see now. I do think they need a little bit of a buff. Perhaps allowing 2-3 units to unload at a time or allowing them to be cancelled during production to get 75% of their cost back | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
It's just a bad unit. It could be decent defensively, but never offensively. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
On March 01 2012 15:11 BlondeOna wrote: Drops and counter attacks effectively do what a nydus does, but better and cheaper. They have their niche uses though, and I'm sure high level zergs have experimented with them a lot, and the results are the niche uses you see now. I do think they need a little bit of a buff. Perhaps allowing 2-3 units to unload at a time or allowing them to be cancelled during production to get 75% of their cost back They should buff it but allow enemy units to use it too. | ||
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Omnidroid
New Zealand214 Posts
If you're trying to use it offensively, most people usually have full vision of bases with pylons/depots/overlords and will be nearly impossible to sneak a nydus in. Even if it does work it counts on opponent not reacting to it fast enough, which brings it down to a cheese. Using it link outer bases feels kinda uneccessary, as zerg armies are already the fastest in the game, if enemy uses drop I'd rather have a couple spine crawlers (which costs only minerals and no gas). If they bring their whole army over the nydus is gonna unload too slow to get your army in position anyways. Using it as a retreat path can work, but I am unsure of it. But we'll probably not see it anywhere before mid-lategame anyways. | ||
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mahO
France274 Posts
On March 01 2012 13:34 AcrosstheSky wrote: Metagame hasn't got there yet. Once zergs learn to start using them it'll become more than a cheese option. Well, a risky tool that costs 300 gas AT LEAST, gives no upgrade or bonus, once scouted is incredibly hard to be used, that doesnt sound like a cheese? does to me | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
On March 01 2012 13:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Can't be canceled. Expensive to build. Expensive to make a Nydus. Obvious and limited use. units come out one at a time when you unload ^ + the build time is stupid, david kim mentioned they want to buff it somewho but they are not sure | ||
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
By the time you get affordable access to Nydus tech, it's unlikely that your opponent will have any significant blind spots in their base, and even if you manage to find one and get a Nydus to complete, it takes quite a while to get any real volume of units out, and you can't control the order in which units are released. And trying to move any significant part of your forces through at once is very dangerous as all it takes is a few volleys from a handful of units to destroy it and cut off half your army. Their best function IMO is for transferring units between bases for defensive purposes. For example, as Zerg I'll often pop a Nydus at my fifth or sixth base on Shakuras, so I can transfer drones without drawing attention to the fact the base is there, and to bring in reinforcements against harassment/evacuate drones. There aren't really many maps left in the map pool large enough to warrant this, however. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
However, nydus worms in late game should be used more often, and are getting used more. A fair amount of korean zergs do it fairly often in late game ZvT on maps like Shakuras, where the Terran can split the map easily. Rather than suiciding thru the centre, nydus harass on a terran's 4th is quite strong. They have uses, but i don't think they'll ever be a viable non-cheesy mid game strategy | ||
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nastyyy
United States262 Posts
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AllHailTheDead
United States418 Posts
if they didnt cost as much you could just build a few and pop a couple up and have units come out at same pace or make units come out at like 3 at a time like in the campaign | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
In summary: give me a fucking break. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10665 Posts
1) Expensive gas 2) Probe surround | ||
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BossPlaya
United States141 Posts
I did like seeing pros unload a queen first to transfuse it though | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
Low health Can't cancel it Builds too slow Makes a loud noise that alerts all enemies within a 5 map radius Unloads units too slowly. It unloads one unit at a time. I say it's expensive but I would like to emphasize that it is 200 gas which is a lot of gas to a zerg. | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
Max zerg with money to spare can definitely afford to spend money on not 1 nydus, but 4-5 in enemy bases to punish a player who is out of position. Creep allows zerg vision and thus time to funnel units back into their main army as needed. 3/3 lings with glands upgrade take down buildings fairly well; a maxed enemy army can't actually build any more units to stop a nydus even if they see it. As for all the talk about gas, gas, gas, I really think late game isn't make or break based off of 500 gas or so. | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
On March 01 2012 15:49 Jerubaal wrote: Zerg, for some reason, seem to be the '1a' race with regard to strategies. You don't really see the subtlety of the small things that you do with P and T. Everything has to be gigantic brushstrokes. Every strategy is 'min/maxed', if it's not the best possible thing, it's totally worthless. You never see zerg do 'just a little bit'. Just make 'a few' of a type of unit. Holy shit, I must make 20 infestors. Holy shit, I must make 20 broodlords. Remember that game in NASL that Sen lost horribly because he just couldn't control himself from making 20 broodlords when only a handful would have sealed the game for him? I think it's because of their production. If P or T make a building, they have to use that building or it goes to waste, whereas Zerg doesn't lose a whole lot by, say, building a hydra den but then only building roaches. In summary: give me a fucking break. sick troll bro sick troll 10/10 User was warned for this post | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On March 01 2012 15:49 Jerubaal wrote: Zerg, for some reason, seem to be the '1a' race with regard to strategies. You don't really see the subtlety of the small things that you do with P and T. Everything has to be gigantic brushstrokes. Every strategy is 'min/maxed', if it's not the best possible thing, it's totally worthless. You never see zerg do 'just a little bit'. Just make 'a few' of a type of unit. Holy shit, I must make 20 infestors. Holy shit, I must make 20 broodlords. Remember that game in NASL that Sen lost horribly because he just couldn't control himself from making 20 broodlords when only a handful would have sealed the game for him? I think it's because of their production. If P or T make a building, they have to use that building or it goes to waste, whereas Zerg doesn't lose a whole lot by, say, building a hydra den but then only building roaches. In summary: give me a fucking break. You are right in that I don't really notice the Protoss subtleties when they wedge their 13 minute ball of 2 base stuff between my hatcheries. Anyways, it's too expensive to build just in case most of the time. Overlord drops is the better choice to have just in case. It's also just extremely difficult to use right because it takes setup time. I tried using them a bunch and usually the enemies army shows up at just the worst time such as half your stuff is in the nydus network somewhere and the other half isn't. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
You want to do with a nydus what terran does with drops late-game: split your opponent and tax their multitasking. However, nydus are essentially one time use, and they're not cheap. That, and zerg drops just aren't that effective (other than banelings, which isn't really the same as a regular drop, more a method of baneling attack). Nydus isn't that useful for a base-trade either, as zerg can usually just go around the opposing army and attack quicker than you could unload with a nydus. | ||
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