EPT(Whereas normally I tend to win my PvZs so long as some weird cheese doesn't throw me off and then they go muta)
Why is the Nydus Worm underused? - Page 24
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
(Whereas normally I tend to win my PvZs so long as some weird cheese doesn't throw me off and then they go muta) | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
The cost. 300/300 for the first one is a big investment. Do it early enough and it's all in. The vision. For the same cost as 1 nydus worm, your typical spotter, the overlord can unload units all game, free of charge, and gets more mobility. They can't be cancelled once the worm is set. I'm sure every zerg who planted a shitty nydus worm knows what this feels like. They make a noise when you use them. Drops don't. I also think that when someone resorts to nydus worms, they're taking a gamble. The gamble? "I bet my opponent won't see this coming!" The only thing I can think of in terms of nydus being better than drops is the ability to travel any amount of distance instantly (if you ignore the time it takes to load into the worm and to unload). In summary, you might as well use drops. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
The only thing I can think of in terms of nydus being better than drops is the ability to travel any amount of distance instantly (if you ignore the time it takes to load into the worm and to unload). In summary, you might as well use drops. I dont understand people that don't realize you can run back through a nydus. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:29 dUTtrOACh wrote: Why are they underused? The cost. 300/300 for the first one is a big investment. Do it early enough and it's all in. The vision. For the same cost as 1 nydus worm, your typical spotter, the overlord can unload units all game, free of charge, and gets more mobility. They can't be cancelled once the worm is set. I'm sure every zerg who planted a shitty nydus worm knows what this feels like. They make a noise when you use them. Drops don't. I also think that when someone resorts to nydus worms, they're taking a gamble. The gamble? "I bet my opponent won't see this coming!" The only thing I can think of in terms of nydus being better than drops is the ability to travel any amount of distance instantly (if you ignore the time it takes to load into the worm and to unload). In summary, you might as well use drops. Well said. In addition to being easy to spot, they have very little HP. Overall, it's a resource drain that's not really worth it usually. The only way to use them is on huge maps and even there, if your opponent is great it becomes more or less useless there as well. | ||
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saynomore
Norway149 Posts
If you do it early/mid game as every says it is cheese. Late game you cant transfer enough units fast enough compared to a big drop or a runby. And for defensive purposes, units transfer faster on creep anyway so the nydus just dont fit in anywhere. It could be used for flanking attacks though. But you still hear the sound. | ||
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NachiMe
250 Posts
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System42
172 Posts
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Eiaco
170 Posts
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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CyDe
United States1010 Posts
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:49 DaemonX wrote: Actually, that's pretty much it. In your example especially, Nydus would be bad since the drop marines would just kill the nydus and mop up whatever units came through. It's always far sneakier and more efficient to transfer units on the ground. On the ground, on creep, there's no risk of being found, having the nydus sniped mid-unload and having your army split and killed. It's actually far faster if you're moving lings, since they unload SO damn slow. And it is always safer since your opponent doesn't immiedately know what you're doing due to a built in interface alert. I love how the people making dumb devil-advocate theorycraft statements 1) Don't play zerg at a high level and 2) never post good examples of their theory in practice. In this whole thread there are what, two? examples of high level nydus work, none from code-A or code-S. It's a broken mechanic. why would u put a nydus on a drop path? 100% of the time, when a terran drops he is going STRAIGHT for the mineral line. u can EASILY put a nydus outside of a expansion and a terran would never know about it unless he actively searches for it. so sniping a nydus would be possible if you put the nydus in a silly location like the mineral line or directly next to the hatchery... if u simply put it outside of the actuall base u are trying to defend then the enemy would have to go way out of there way to find it first of all and then to snipe it off. also, with correct overlord spread u SHOULD see the drop coming in the first place. so if u see it coming why not start to unload BEFORE he even gets a chance to snipe the nydus? it all boils down to map awareness. zerg has the ability to see 90% of the entire map with creep spread and overlord spread. no reason at all to not see a drop coming and prepare to unload units from a nydus. also people really need to learn to think for themselves withing having to wait on a pro player to show u how its done... this is the same problem we had with warp prisms and, for awhile, we had the same problem with infestors in beta and early SC2 release. it took a good player like destiny to basically pioneer infestors and use them with great effect to finally realize "hey, infestors dont suck after all!". same thing with warp prisms. there potential wasnt realize till much later in the games lifespan. its taking a bit longer for nydus worms sadly, so i believe it will take a buff before ppl actually start using them, which is quite sad. experiment with them late game people. the amount of mobility and MAP PRESENCE it gives to your army is insane. stop following pro players and get off of the mindset that "omg i have to make infestor brood lords or i loose the game!!!" experiment ffs till u find something that works. late game nydus is so good when combined with drops. u can litterally harass multiple expansions at once with your ENTIRE army, and your army will NEVER be out of position because u can run back into the worm and instantly defend or harass another location. yes it takes a shit ton of gas, but all u have to do is cut broodlords. ur cutting immobility for mobility, a very fair trade IMO. broodlords are not the only way to victory my fellow zergies.... with all that being said there is one thing i want to change about nydus worms. you have to build multiple networks inorder to place multiple worms at once.(something many people dont even know you can do). this is good, but the gas cost gets pretty high. 2 networks means 2 worms placed at once. 3 networks is 3 worms placed at once and 4 networks is 4 worms at once. however 4 networks is like 800 gas. so to buff this i think nydus network should have a gas cost reduction to like 100 gas. 100 gas for network 100 for worm. still a heavy gas cost to place many worms, but not a insane amount. i think this will encourage people to play with worms more. also for people saying "NYDUS WORMS UNLOAD TO SLOW!!!". do what i said above. make multiple networks and multiple worms and u can unload a entire 200/200 army in less then 5 seconds and load them all back up in the same amount of time. very very good. the gas cost is high, but like i said late game that should be a issue and the mobility it gives ur units is soooo good if used correctly IMHO nydus worms are better then the warp in mechanic late game. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
He saved a lot of bases doing it, small groups of hydras are pretty good vs. small groups of gateway warp ins when there's a fungal keeping the hydras from getting hit, and I can't think of any way other than nydus to guarantee that your hydra hit squad will always be at the base getting hit to defend it. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Cheticus
United States83 Posts
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
both are a large investment made to improve the mobility of the Zerg ground army and allow for counter attacks/harrasment. but I believe that Drop tech simply wins out thus limiting the use of Nydus play. I think it's interesting the Blizzard decided to ty and revamp Nydus and allow it to be used offensivley but I feel it simply overlaps too much with Overlord drop tech. For HoTS I would like to see them expirement with the idea of making nydus purely defensive and in late game, like available at hive tech, cheaper, faster unload rate and only usuable on creep or with a certain vacinity of a hatchery so that it is available as an obtion to allow slow late game armies to defend spread out exspansions. | ||
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
also people really need to learn to think for themselves withing having to wait on a pro player to show u how its done... this is the same problem we had with warp prisms and, for awhile, we had the same problem with infestors in beta and early SC2 release. it took a good player like destiny to basically pioneer infestors and use them with great effect to finally realize "hey, infestors dont suck after all!". same thing with warp prisms. there potential wasnt realize till much later in the games lifespan. Warp Prisms were buffed. It went up from 16 Queens shots to 23. Why? Because they were a gimmick unit. Some people experimented with Warpprism 4Gates. Didnt work out well because they got killed by two Queens rather fast. Infestor was buffed EXTREMELY. It was an underused unit before, the first one utilizing it in an TvZ build was MrBitter, who used Infestors instead of Mutalisks and went for upgraded zergling/baneling/Ultralisk with Infestor support (before they were buffed). So both of your example units were gimmick units before, utilized just by a handful of players. Both were buffed (+30% HP, +100% Spell DPS) and became "proper" units. | ||
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dde
Canada796 Posts
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