|
On February 10 2012 03:50 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:43 Griddlez wrote:
A third party company should come along and fill a roll much like a cable company does now. They could piece together the IPL, GSL, MLG, NASL, IEM, etc content and charge the viewers a single monthly charge for everything. The people collecting the money can pay back to the leagues based on viewership numbers during their programs. the amount of ppl that would have to subscribe to keep all those companies happy would be in the millions for them to even turn out a profit. Plus the production would have to be stepped up soo much. Not just 2 ppl sitting in front of a black screen, or a green screened room. They would have to have studios that don't look like someone just put some shit in a garage.
The company would only handle distribting content provided by the leagues. They would not create content. They would manage the adds, airing time, and finances of paying out based on viewership numbers. 1 Charge you will get all relevent content and shows and the companys/shows with the best content will make the most money as it should be.
|
Not going to pay to watch HD quality. If I really had to pay to watch entertainment like this, I'd rather stick with supporting my favorite streamers or go watch the TV I'm forced to pay a license for anyways.
|
For me personally, and this goes for all sports as a matter of fact . The primary sponsor of any sporting event are big companies that want to advertise their products to a viewer base that is guaranteed, as in they have the evidence that x advertisement reached 1000000 households for example.
Big sponsors aren't looking to make their money directly back from the event, that's just stupid, it becomes like free advertising if they can make their money back and get there name out there? thats like a no brainer. We all know this is not the case since advertising is based on risk vs reward.
Big sponsors want to advertise to get their name out there for the masses. All that a sponsor should really care about is how large are the viewing numbers regardless if the viewers pay for the stream or not.(If they pay thats just icing on the cake) Look at american football, who the hell pays for that? do you fork out money to watch the superbowl? noooooo.. All you pay is for your cable subscription.
All this shit about hoping ppl pay for streams is just temporary false revenue that is in no way sustainable in a long term future as the primary way to get money. All a sport or an esport for this matter should care about is reaching the largest fan base it can possibly reach, and only when the fanbase is huge will a big name sponsor jump in and say, "hey we dont give a fuck amount making money from your event, but we heard you have 2 million viewers on average that target a demographic we want, so we are interested!"
Then when the big big sponsors jump in, Then we get the production quality that is off the hook, When the production quality is great ( good casters, lots of cool videos between down time,Well structured events , etc) is when the scene really builds a big following, When the following is large, then they buy all the crap like merchandise and sell out arenas right away.
Esports will never make it big until it hits T.V , it has nothing to do with ppl that don't pay for streams, it has nothing to do with all your shitty excuses, All a sport should care about is building up the largest viewerbase it possibly can and thats what attracts big sponsorships. In korea for instance, during broodwar's prime, not a fucking soul paid to watch starcraft, u can go and watch it for free.. its so standard the Koreans don't even pay to watch sc2 vods of gsl or spectate live events, everything is free, So why was broodwar successful in korea >?because it reached a viewer base that brought in the Big name sponsors.
|
On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. And we pay what, 10 dollars a month for cable and internet? And we get what, hundreds of channels and more TV shows than you can feasibly watch in a year? I'm sorry but there is a large difference between what cable TV offers and what SC2 streams are offering. When is the last time the NBA had 4 hours of downtime because of technical difficulties? When is the last time an NBA team chose to forgo their match because they were too tired or didn't think the money was worth it? Honestly, theres a vast difference in professionalism and marketability between organizations like the NBA and IPL (for instance). I think this thread more represents people in the E-Sports industry getting frustrated because they aren't making big bucks yet. I'm sorry but you aren't curing cancer, you aren't saving lives, you aren't very important on the larger scale. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. If you want to live a cushy life full of commodities, go to college, get a degree and get a meaningful job. E-sports is a hobby to most of us, not a necessity. I can play SC2 and be content, it's nice to be able to watch streams and tournaments, but my life will continue happily if all I can do is play and not watch. 'This sounds harsh, but in reality, SC2 and E-sports rank pretty low on my list of priorities.
Oh my.
Bold #1: Wow I wish I had your cable provider. I pay $100 or so for cable / internet with a handful of premium channels. Also I have happily dropped $200 for NFL or MLB packages in the past, because as a consumer I enjoyed having the option to buy that extra content. Capitalism is awesome.
Bold #2: lol like 2 months ago. It was the NBA lockout. I'm getting a headache.
Bold #3: That is totally fine. Just like I can happily not ever subscribe to Cosmopolitan, but I am not on the Cosmopolitan message board bitching about how they should send it to all their subscribers for free. Me... I like watching professional Starcraft 2 from time to time. I want to continue to have that option, and for that to happen, the organizations need to make money. Not complicated.
|
On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. And we pay what, 10 dollars a month for cable and internet? And we get what, hundreds of channels and more TV shows than you can feasibly watch in a year? I'm sorry but there is a large difference between what cable TV offers and what SC2 streams are offering. When is the last time the NBA had 4 hours of downtime because of technical difficulties? When is the last time an NBA team chose to forgo their match because they were too tired or didn't think the money was worth it? Honestly, theres a vast difference in professionalism and marketability between organizations like the NBA and IPL (for instance). I think this thread more represents people in the E-Sports industry getting frustrated because they aren't making big bucks yet. I'm sorry but you aren't curing cancer, you aren't saving lives, you aren't very important on the larger scale. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. If you want to live a cushy life full of commodities, go to college, get a degree and get a meaningful job. E-sports is a hobby to most of us, not a necessity. I can play SC2 and be content, it's nice to be able to watch streams and tournaments, but my life will continue happily if all I can do is play and not watch. ' This sounds harsh, but in reality, SC2 and E-sports rank pretty low on my list of priorities.
FYI: US Cable, in my area, Verizon charges the following:
65$/month for basic cable package
75$/month for premium
90$/month for ultimate
Other premium channels may be purchased a-la cart (e.g. HBO, NHL, etc.), and are anywhere between $12-20 a month.
Internet adds another $30+ to your bill, depending on deal package, etc. etc.
So yes, you get a lot more content from TV, but it is FAR from cheap. Consider the fact that all of these channels (except perhaps the a-la cart premium ones) also have economics of scale, meaning
1) huge market penetration and
2) huge amounts of viewership which can translate to ad revenue
allowing them to charge less for each individual subscription. TV is expensive, but offers excellent, almost exceptional value for the dollar. Perhaps US TV is sold at a discount internationally, since they consider it a peripheral market, and rely on US viewership to pay for the production, etc.
I agree that SC2 may not be very high on eveyone's priority list, and that is why the scene will remain small, and niche at the end of the day. It will only grow insofar as people are willing to put money into it. There is clearly not enough money to go around.
|
On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! 
Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear.
|
On February 10 2012 03:59 jinixxx123 wrote:
Big sponsors are advertising to get their name out there. All that a sponsor should really care about is how large are the viewing numbers regardless if the viewers pay for the stream or not. Look at american football, who the hell pays for that? do you fork out money to watch the superbowl? noooooo.. All you pay is for your cable subscription.
You pay for your cable subscription, the cable company pays the station for the rights to air their channel on their cable, the production company pays the NFL lisencing fees for distribution rights, so that they can air the game, so that you pay for cable to watch the superbowl.
Stating you don't pay for the superbowl is a naive comment.
This is how cable companies make thier money, the channels make their money by paying for licensing rights and then running advertisements during these programs that they run, and the NFL makes their money through selling these licenses to the production companies (as well as ticket sales).
|
How much do you expect people to pay though? Monthly GSL Premium is $240 per year without the team league.
This is false. The ticket store is very clear that the Premium Monthly subscription includes absolutely everything. Do you even check these things before making such a claim?
|
On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear.
They said that when Poker first started becoming a spectator sport, now its a multi-billion dollar industry.
|
While this is an interesting topic, let's stop comparing SC2 and MMA (the UFC). As someone who has followed esports and mma for over a decade the two are at very, very different stages of growth.
Let's be straight, the production alone at MOST 'pro' esports events lends itself to being free, the quality of the content we are shown isn't worth anywhere close the $45-55 (The UFC charges normal vs HD) or even the $25 being thrown around in this thread. Most professional tournaments still feel like amateur hour.
The eSports demographic is poor, cheap and for the vast majority, internet savvy. We're deluded with entitlement and a 'fuck you, I'll pirate it' attitude if we don't like the model or the cost being described. This is hard to get around for eSports companies as chill said, you charge too much, they leave, you don't charge enough, you fade out and die.
I think the only approach can be to capitalize as much as you can RIGHT NOW, because honestly gamers have ADD. I know we all want to think -THIS TIME ITS DIFFERENT- and that eSports has finally arrived and will be this big huge market and be recognized as a sustainable career industry (think korean BW) but I'm not convinced it is yet.
Starcraft 2 is hot right now, very hot but until a larger enough section of the humoungous gamer base recognizes it as 'the title that is an esport,' this is the game to play if you want to compete, I'm not sure eSports has truly arrived. Gamers get bored. This year and perhaps even more years to come with the expansions we will likely hold Starcraft 2 on a pedestal but can western gamers (in numbers enough to be significant) carry a title for 10 years so that a huge esports business industry can really get established and flourish? I'm not sure. I think we would get bored of the game, a new game would come along, people lose interest etc. etc.
Koreans were able to look past dated graphics, UI and mechanics and recognize the skill, the decision making and strategy that made broodwar a legitimate 'esports' title. A game where players who were good enough were respected enough by a large enough segment of the population to sustain a business. Once 'gamers' were respected to this degree other games could be added into this business model. I don't think western gamers (on the whole) can do this, better graphics, better engines, cooler games come out and that steals attention. We want the newest and the best. I know there will always be a niche market for old GREAT games, hell 5 years from now you can probably still find 1.6 servers but it's not enough to create a healthy market.
I'm rambling a lot right now holy shit I apologize and how disjointed and fucked this post actually is turing out.
The quick tl;dr, esports isn't likely to be held in the west with 1 title, it will take an entire paradigm shift of the entire gaming community (the bazillion dollar industry) to recognize and respect 'pro gamers' to the point that enough people value the skill and competition exhibited. In the west, pro gaming is respected in niche but on the whole is a laughable profession.
|
Calgary25963 Posts
On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear.
What's your point? I'm honestly struggling to find it.
|
On February 10 2012 04:08 Dantelew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear. They said that when Poker first started becoming a spectator sport, now its a multi-billion dollar industry.
What's your point? Poker isn't even remotely comparable to SC2...
|
On February 10 2012 04:07 Dantelew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:59 jinixxx123 wrote:
Big sponsors are advertising to get their name out there. All that a sponsor should really care about is how large are the viewing numbers regardless if the viewers pay for the stream or not. Look at american football, who the hell pays for that? do you fork out money to watch the superbowl? noooooo.. All you pay is for your cable subscription.
You pay for your cable subscription, the cable company pays the station for the rights to air their channel on their cable, the production company pays the NFL lisencing fees for distribution rights, so that they can air the game, so that you pay for cable to watch the superbowl. Stating you don't pay for the superbowl is a naive comment. This is how cable companies make thier money, the channels make their money by paying for licensing rights and then running advertisements during these programs that they run, and the NFL makes their money through selling these licenses to the production companies (as well as ticket sales).
thats so wrong, the big commercials you see running during the superbowl are the ones forking out i'd bet over 90% of the real cost it takes to put such an event on T.V . All you are paying is for your cable subscription, of which encompass'es EVERYTHING. Not just just watching sports but movies/cartoons etc.
|
On February 10 2012 04:08 Dantelew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear. They said that when Poker first started becoming a spectator sport, now its a multi-billion dollar industry.
Actually poker has been popular for ages, just not as hyped as it became 5-10 years ago. There's been world series of poker tournament held every year since the 70's. SC2 is a unstable game that wont survive without spectators while poker lived for 30 years with huge prize pools without it being watched on the TV.
Also comparing the two is futile as one is a complex niche video game and the other is a world famous card game.
|
This guy is a complete embarassment. The best thing that will ever happen on any show/whatever that Jerith is associated with was Spooky setting him straight.
|
Here is my idea which I feel is quite radical, so keep the pitch forks at bay please, just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint.
First of all, I feel in order for any industry to be sustainable, it will have to function as a true free market system which works by letting supply / demand naturally balance itself out, and where players/casters/sponsors are driven naturally by incentives. Like all industries, there needs to be competition/rewards, this improves the overall quality of viewer/player and the industry itself. At the moment all the major events are regulated with very specific criteria that limits the competition / market, with rules in place such as complicated qualification rounds, geographical distances and obligations to their sponsors. The alternative I'm suggesting is the sponsorship dollars get spread across through natural supply / demand instead in the form of a large international site with a free market system.
IMO this could work with a massive website where people can sign up and play and win money in tournaments. This would provide a living for both the players and the casters, and provide an even better option for viewers which in turn attract sponsors - basically aiming to become a sustainable industry in itself. ATM playhem is closest to this model.
So on this site there are MANY various tournaments held DAILY with various prizes and as the entrance fees go up so do the prizes. The tournament entrance fees range from $0.01 for the lower levels to $50 entrance fees for the big leagues where you see $1,500 first prizes for say, 32 player tournaments. All the money goes to the players after minusing transaction costs.
Smurfing: Naturally lower league players won't want to waste time earning less when they can be earning more at their skill level at a higher league. So although they can play in the $0.01 cent games it doesn't make sense.. they end up winning $0.5 or something when they could be winning $5 with the skill level they have. So the tournaments will end up evening itself out naturally..
Casters: Everyone can stream, just like the playhem tournaments. People will naturally decide themselves who are the best and then watch them. Website is able to track viewers and over time these casters earn better priority and can stream the big events. Casters who are good are supported and get money from donations / adverts. This way it weeds out the bad casters and overall viewing quality is improved.
Players: The many daily tournaments provide a proper daily income for players and encourages skilled players who wanna go pro to try harder. You win what you earn. The best players will earn alot, and invest more in playing. The good but not great players still have a chance by practicing hard in their respective league levels and can get encouraged to play more after winning the smaller prizes. Best of all those players who aren't good enough won't have to risk going pro or moving to another country, they will just stop playing because they can't make enough to support themselves.
Sponsors: They pay for the entrance fees of their players. They get certain exposure on the website deliberately such as in the match preview / brackets it has their team logo / and sponsors are shown on the team pages in the website. This has to be set up very carefully so sponsors have the incentive to support their players and get more exposure. Perhaps all streamers will be require to download an overlay that is scripted from the brackets that display the sponsors of both teams, player profile details and stats etc. Money is not wasted on fat salaries for non-performing players and naturally the players who win the most end up getting sponsored, giving the sponsors a return they can "measure".
Site: Doesn't take rake or make a commission. Pretty sure has to be this way or Blizzard will shut it down or want to be involved. They earn revenue from advertisements from gaming companies like Roccat, Razer, Steelseries etc and google ads. They will do okay because if it takes off ALOT of people will be visiting the site. And perhaps they have the money to pay the admins who run the site / tournaments so its self-sustaining.
Admins: Everything is automated as much as possible on the site. One admin per tournament for disputes. Players awarded karma points after disputes to discourage BM / cheating and to make the lives of admins easier.
Live Events: Not sure how this will be done. I honestly think live events are a huge waste of money for everyone involved, from the sponsors who pay the air tickets to the tournament organizers who have to hire a venue. Alot of sponsorship money is being lost there on expensive air tickets / venues which could be better used elsewhere. TSL3 for example was carried out online (except the finals) and it was fantastic and there isn't LAN anymore so game quality doesn't improve live, in fact it inconveniences players who must adjust to jetlag and a new playing envrionment. Sponsors are given adequate coverage online already, for every event there are so many more viewers online watching then those in attendance at the live event.
IMO if a site like this exists the eSports industry will be able to grow faster and further, it will be self-sustaining and able to support the livelihood for many players and casters. For recreational players there will be games to watch everyday, or tournaments that cost almost nothing $0.01-$0.25 to play in. Our player database is there already in terms of size, we need to get all of them playing on one site and yea playhem is closest to this I don't think they have any plans to start charging though I could be wrong.
Anyway those are my thoughts for a sustainable model, and it has to use a free market system.
|
On February 10 2012 04:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear. What's your point? I'm honestly struggling to find it.
My point is that SC2 is a hobby for most of us, not a necessity. If I have excess money to donate, it will be to a charity that benefits people in need, not a bunch of people who are disappointed because SC2 wasn't the cash cow they thought it would be.
|
There are some really good thoughts in here, but I wanted to sum up my beliefs on this topic.
1. SC2 is still young - we don't know where things will lead if the current model was maintained.
2. You can't do this expensive PPV model for SC2, it just won't work....I pay for GSL but it's $15 for literally 100+ matches featuring the highest level players in the world. Even if it was $5 to watch an MLG weekend, is that $5 really gonna make them money? Lets say (big number here) 400,000 people paid to watch an MLG weekend. So figure $2 million before taxes, expenses, the cost of actually getting those millions of dollars via paypal or w.e service they would use, the additional cost of improving the quality of production just to justify a charge-only system, and other minor things that endlessly chip away at the profitability of MLG (and every other entertainment production company). Even if you factor in the money they make from sponsorships and merchandise, I'm just not sure we could ever get to the point where your going to have the pure numbers to make it profitable when your alienating a significant portion of your audience by charging in the first place.
3. How many tournaments could really do a premium model? GSL gets a lucky break because the time difference is so bad for America and they just happen to have the best players in the world constantly competing in their studio. MLG and IPL could pull this off, but what about the NASLs, Dreamhacks, IEMs, etc. etc. etc.
4. Somebody on the first page already said it, but there really is a massive amount of SC2 content out there as it is, any kind of premium model would have to give you unquestionably better value than these lesser tournaments. Is that even possible with SC2? The whole thing just sounds like it's counteproductive. If MLG can make more money doing a premium model, they will. If they can make more money going for larger audiences, they'll do that. There's no real model for e-sports (professional sports provides a vague path, but the actual inputs of SC2 pros vs professional athletes is just not comparable) so these tournaments/leagues/teams are going to have to find their own way.
|
Calgary25963 Posts
On February 10 2012 04:14 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:09 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear. What's your point? I'm honestly struggling to find it. My point is that SC2 is a hobby for most of us, not a necessity. If I have excess money to donate, it will be to a charity that benefits people in need, not a bunch of people who are disappointed because SC2 wasn't the cash cow they thought it would be.
Why would you even post in this thread then? It's like going into a car thread and demanding people ride bicycles and give the extra money to people in need.
|
On February 10 2012 04:14 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:09 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 04:04 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:56 Canucklehead wrote:On February 10 2012 03:53 Chill wrote:On February 10 2012 03:48 SupLilSon wrote:On February 10 2012 03:32 KingOfAmerica wrote:On February 10 2012 03:21 1sz2sz3sz wrote:On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote:
I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2. Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports! Honestly maybe they should. People have all these delusions of grandeur of SC2 and E-sports being the next NFL or NBA when in reality SC2 is just a video game. People see HuK, IdrA, etc getting large figure contracts and think that is supposed to be the norm. Even in Korea, the MECHA OF ESPORTS, Starcraft is in reality just a small niche of entertainment. Like I said, it sounds harsh but if half the pros out there right now had to go back to school and get a real job to make money, I wouldn't shed a tear. What's your point? I'm honestly struggling to find it. My point is that SC2 is a hobby for most of us, not a necessity. If I have excess money to donate, it will be to a charity that benefits people in need, not a bunch of people who are disappointed because SC2 wasn't the cash cow they thought it would be.
We get it, you are completely fine with, and are on the verge of encouraging, the death of western pro SC2. However this thread is concerned with ways to help it survive. Since you don't care about that discussion, it's a bit confusing why you would repeatedly post in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
