On February 10 2012 03:18 Boblhead wrote: Most people know that the age group for sc2 is probably 13-25 is the biggest group. Mostly students. Now take those numbers, how students always have an extra $20-40? How many students have the option to spend $20-40 on events instead of buying food or paying for gas? How many students are willing to spend an extra $20-40 a month on starcraft events via PPV? I'm content for paying for 1 at and thats a whole yearly payment, mostly money I received for xmas. GSL is the only one that is doing this and not failing, why? Because they know we will buy the tickets and that we get $200 worth of content over a whole year, now with how many events are I think it would be best to offer free HQ for foreigner tournies, and charge $5 for vods, or do what IEM does which will charge 5 euros for HQ for a tourny for 3 days. Now 5 euros for 3 days is pretty managable as a college student. But I usually end up watching the regular SQ. The first foreign company to do this will ultimately fail because their target group won't be willing to spend that money every month for mediocre games/casters. With GSL they have the line up, and a whole system for x amount of months. Kinda like with what NASL did, the first season was ok, the second was :S, and who knows about the 3rd season, I don't give them past 4 seasons before its ultimately gone. Charging your biggest demographic this amount of money everymonth will eventually in most cases will ultimately drain the person of funds they would normally use for something else, or to buy a ticket where you get xx amount of content over xx amount of months. Organizations talking about this wanting to charge $20 for an event aka MLG, it would be cheaper for ppl to buy their shitty gold passes just for the HQ, and ppl who used to buy the $11.99 silver 3 month pass for HQ wouldn't pay $20 an event. Companies even thinking about doing this are probably aren't going to succeed. and GSL will be the only one left like Chill said.
What's to stop 5-6 college students from banding up and watching together? That's less than $5 per person.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Boblhead wrote: Most people know that the age group for sc2 is probably 13-25 is the biggest group. Mostly students. Now take those numbers, how students always have an extra $20-40? How many students have the option to spend $20-40 on events instead of buying food or paying for gas? How many students are willing to spend an extra $20-40 a month on starcraft events via PPV? I'm content for paying for 1 at and thats a whole yearly payment, mostly money I received for xmas. GSL is the only one that is doing this and not failing, why? Because they know we will buy the tickets and that we get $200 worth of content over a whole year, now with how many events are I think it would be best to offer free HQ for foreigner tournies, and charge $5 for vods, or do what IEM does which will charge 5 euros for HQ for a tourny for 3 days. Now 5 euros for 3 days is pretty managable as a college student. But I usually end up watching the regular SQ. The first foreign company to do this will ultimately fail because their target group won't be willing to spend that money every month for mediocre games/casters. With GSL they have the line up, and a whole system for x amount of months. Kinda like with what NASL did, the first season was ok, the second was :S, and who knows about the 3rd season, I don't give them past 4 seasons before its ultimately gone. Charging your biggest demographic this amount of money everymonth will eventually in most cases will ultimately drain the person of funds they would normally use for something else, or to buy a ticket where you get xx amount of content over xx amount of months. Organizations talking about this wanting to charge $20 for an event aka MLG, it would be cheaper for ppl to buy their shitty gold passes just for the HQ, and ppl who used to buy the $11.99 silver 3 month pass for HQ wouldn't pay $20 an event. Companies even thinking about doing this are probably aren't going to succeed. and GSL will be the only one left like Chill said.
What's to stop 5-6 college students from banding up and watching together? That's less than $5 per person.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Well hopefully you also admit that if everyone took your stance, professional SC2 would eventually die off.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Boblhead wrote: Most people know that the age group for sc2 is probably 13-25 is the biggest group. Mostly students. Now take those numbers, how students always have an extra $20-40? How many students have the option to spend $20-40 on events instead of buying food or paying for gas? How many students are willing to spend an extra $20-40 a month on starcraft events via PPV? I'm content for paying for 1 at and thats a whole yearly payment, mostly money I received for xmas. GSL is the only one that is doing this and not failing, why? Because they know we will buy the tickets and that we get $200 worth of content over a whole year, now with how many events are I think it would be best to offer free HQ for foreigner tournies, and charge $5 for vods, or do what IEM does which will charge 5 euros for HQ for a tourny for 3 days. Now 5 euros for 3 days is pretty managable as a college student. But I usually end up watching the regular SQ. The first foreign company to do this will ultimately fail because their target group won't be willing to spend that money every month for mediocre games/casters. With GSL they have the line up, and a whole system for x amount of months. Kinda like with what NASL did, the first season was ok, the second was :S, and who knows about the 3rd season, I don't give them past 4 seasons before its ultimately gone. Charging your biggest demographic this amount of money everymonth will eventually in most cases will ultimately drain the person of funds they would normally use for something else, or to buy a ticket where you get xx amount of content over xx amount of months. Organizations talking about this wanting to charge $20 for an event aka MLG, it would be cheaper for ppl to buy their shitty gold passes just for the HQ, and ppl who used to buy the $11.99 silver 3 month pass for HQ wouldn't pay $20 an event. Companies even thinking about doing this are probably aren't going to succeed. and GSL will be the only one left like Chill said.
What's to stop 5-6 college students from banding up and watching together? That's less than $5 per person.
Paying $5 to goto someone elses house to watch a tourney is a negative for me, I'm not going to spend 3 days at someone else's house watching the game. For a finals maybe, but that alone isn't worth spending $5 for a bo7 that potentially isn't going to be good. I can only name like 3 finals that were decent, the others were just 4-0 or 4-1, one of those finals was on DreamHacks stream that was free 1080p.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
Paid for every season of GSL paid for most(?) so far seasons of MLG bought starcraft (x3) or so (one for each region) paid for server+domain for my team (still) LR a bit etc
I do think eSports (or rather starcraft) is my passion... I still think I need to do more though
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Well hopefully you also admit that if everyone took your stance, professional SC2 would eventually die off.
In the west maybe, which I am completely fine with. I watch for highest level play, which is in Korea. As long as its fine in Korea, idgaf about the rest of the world to be honest
On February 10 2012 03:18 Boblhead wrote: Most people know that the age group for sc2 is probably 13-25 is the biggest group. Mostly students. Now take those numbers, how students always have an extra $20-40? How many students have the option to spend $20-40 on events instead of buying food or paying for gas? How many students are willing to spend an extra $20-40 a month on starcraft events via PPV? I'm content for paying for 1 at and thats a whole yearly payment, mostly money I received for xmas. GSL is the only one that is doing this and not failing, why? Because they know we will buy the tickets and that we get $200 worth of content over a whole year, now with how many events are I think it would be best to offer free HQ for foreigner tournies, and charge $5 for vods, or do what IEM does which will charge 5 euros for HQ for a tourny for 3 days. Now 5 euros for 3 days is pretty managable as a college student. But I usually end up watching the regular SQ. The first foreign company to do this will ultimately fail because their target group won't be willing to spend that money every month for mediocre games/casters. With GSL they have the line up, and a whole system for x amount of months. Kinda like with what NASL did, the first season was ok, the second was :S, and who knows about the 3rd season, I don't give them past 4 seasons before its ultimately gone. Charging your biggest demographic this amount of money everymonth will eventually in most cases will ultimately drain the person of funds they would normally use for something else, or to buy a ticket where you get xx amount of content over xx amount of months. Organizations talking about this wanting to charge $20 for an event aka MLG, it would be cheaper for ppl to buy their shitty gold passes just for the HQ, and ppl who used to buy the $11.99 silver 3 month pass for HQ wouldn't pay $20 an event. Companies even thinking about doing this are probably aren't going to succeed. and GSL will be the only one left like Chill said.
What's to stop 5-6 college students from banding up and watching together? That's less than $5 per person.
Thats more than I am willing to spend which is 0$
It doesn't matter if you are a viewer or not then, at the end of the day. Since no one earns anything of value from you, since the SC2 as a spectator sport a whole gets little to no return, it is irrelevant if you watch or not. That's really the bottom line when it comes to monetization. If too many people share that same opinion, then the pro scene is already dead, and we just haven't realized it yet.
I wonder what the viewership numbers are like if you remove people who 'only' watch the streams because they cannot afford or refuse to pay for any type of streaming. That would probably give us a better idea of the true health of the industry; I suspect it is rather sickly.
On February 10 2012 03:30 Doodsmack wrote:Well hopefully you also admit that if everyone took your stance, professional SC2 would eventually die off.
I'm still paying for GSL and will continue to as long as it remains entertaining enough to be worth it. I won't pay $5-10 for a weekend of IEM, MLG, etc. though.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Boblhead wrote: Most people know that the age group for sc2 is probably 13-25 is the biggest group. Mostly students. Now take those numbers, how students always have an extra $20-40? How many students have the option to spend $20-40 on events instead of buying food or paying for gas? How many students are willing to spend an extra $20-40 a month on starcraft events via PPV? I'm content for paying for 1 at and thats a whole yearly payment, mostly money I received for xmas. GSL is the only one that is doing this and not failing, why? Because they know we will buy the tickets and that we get $200 worth of content over a whole year, now with how many events are I think it would be best to offer free HQ for foreigner tournies, and charge $5 for vods, or do what IEM does which will charge 5 euros for HQ for a tourny for 3 days. Now 5 euros for 3 days is pretty managable as a college student. But I usually end up watching the regular SQ. The first foreign company to do this will ultimately fail because their target group won't be willing to spend that money every month for mediocre games/casters. With GSL they have the line up, and a whole system for x amount of months. Kinda like with what NASL did, the first season was ok, the second was :S, and who knows about the 3rd season, I don't give them past 4 seasons before its ultimately gone. Charging your biggest demographic this amount of money everymonth will eventually in most cases will ultimately drain the person of funds they would normally use for something else, or to buy a ticket where you get xx amount of content over xx amount of months. Organizations talking about this wanting to charge $20 for an event aka MLG, it would be cheaper for ppl to buy their shitty gold passes just for the HQ, and ppl who used to buy the $11.99 silver 3 month pass for HQ wouldn't pay $20 an event. Companies even thinking about doing this are probably aren't going to succeed. and GSL will be the only one left like Chill said.
What's to stop 5-6 college students from banding up and watching together? That's less than $5 per person.
Thats more than I am willing to spend which is 0$
It doesn't matter if you are a viewer or not then, at the end of the day. Since no one earns anything of value from you, since the SC2 as a spectator sport a whole gets little to no return, it is irrelevant if you watch or not. That's really the bottom line when it comes to monetization. If too many people share that same opinion, then the pro scene is already dead, and we just haven't realized it yet.
I wonder what the viewership numbers are like if you remove people who 'only' watch the streams because they cannot afford or refuse to pay for any type of streaming. That would probably give us a better idea of the true health of the industry; I suspect it is rather sickly.
If you would took away the people who refuse to pay or cant afford you would be left with a few hundreds, thousand max. And Im being generous when I say this I think
A third party company should come along and fill a roll much like a cable company does now. They could piece together the IPL, GSL, MLG, NASL, IEM, etc content and charge the viewers a single monthly charge for everything. The people collecting the money can pay back to the leagues based on viewership numbers during their programs.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription.
And we pay what, 10 dollars a month for cable and internet? And we get what, hundreds of channels and more TV shows than you can feasibly watch in a year? I'm sorry but there is a large difference between what cable TV offers and what SC2 streams are offering. When is the last time the NBA had 4 hours of downtime because of technical difficulties? When is the last time an NBA team chose to forgo their match because they were too tired or didn't think the money was worth it? Honestly, theres a vast difference in professionalism and marketability between organizations like the NBA and IPL (for instance). I think this thread more represents people in the E-Sports industry getting frustrated because they aren't making big bucks yet. I'm sorry but you aren't curing cancer, you aren't saving lives, you aren't very important on the larger scale. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. If you want to live a cushy life full of commodities, go to college, get a degree and get a meaningful job. E-sports is a hobby to most of us, not a necessity. I can play SC2 and be content, it's nice to be able to watch streams and tournaments, but my life will continue happily if all I can do is play and not watch. '
This sounds harsh, but in reality, SC2 and E-sports rank pretty low on my list of priorities.
On February 10 2012 03:44 Kfcnoob wrote: eSports is 'cool' and people are giant fans from it being so; charging for a necessary subscription service will drastically lower this.
the community exists because of the cool - just use ads.
Unfortunately production companies can't use the commodity of "cool" to pay their bills, prize pools, distribution companies, employees, venue fees, etc.
Ads don't cut it.
If a venue wants 20,000 dollars for a weekend of use, MLG doesn't get a free pass by saying, "well, we don't have any money, but shucks, people like us!"
On February 10 2012 03:43 Griddlez wrote: A third party company should come along and fill a roll much like a cable company does now. They could piece together the IPL, GSL, MLG, NASL, IEM, etc content and charge the viewers a single monthly charge for everything. The people collecting the money can pay back to the leagues based on viewership numbers during their programs.
the amount of ppl that would have to subscribe to keep all those companies happy would be in the millions for them to even turn out a profit. Plus the production would have to be stepped up soo much. Not just 2 ppl sitting in front of a black screen, or a green screened room. They would have to have studios that don't look like someone just put some shit in a garage.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription.
If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money.
This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS
On February 09 2012 15:09 Chill wrote: I think people have gotten used to this charity model where the majority is given away for free. I think there's this perception that companies are making money, but I doubt they are.
It's a tough spot. Monetize and people revolt and you die. Don't monetize and you slowly drown. I don't know how it's going to work. Maybe you have to completely level up the broadcast to a completely different place where people expect to pay for that quality? No idea.
Edit: No one seems to treat this as a business. There's a feeling things should be free because they want it to grow. Until we get past that and make it a business, it'll never be more than a niche market, which is fine, but it is what it is.
Couldn't agree more.
Any business without a solid plan on how they're going to earn money is doomed to fail. And yes we have been spoiled by all the free content we receive. In a way, this is much the same problem that is all over the internet; free content for the end user, hopefully ad revenue is high enough to turn a profit.
I like to think that as nerds we're typically some pretty well paid individuals, at least most I've ever know or talked to briefly are either in highly technical jobs or are in college on the way to doing so. We're engineers, coders, web designers, architects, network support staff, etc etc. Eventually I think the community at large is going to need grow up a bit and start shelling out at least a little something in order to get what we want. Hell that's the way things go for 95% of other things you want/need in the real world.
I'd be willing to pay $2 (~half a gallon of gas) or $5 (less than the cost of a mediocre lunch in my area) to be able to watch MLG for the weekend. To anyone making $1k, $2k, or $6k a month, this shouldn't be a problem and people should stop bitching about the prospect. 50,000 viewers for MLG paying $2 each would go along way to making esports legitimate.
I for one would gladly pay to watch a 1080p stream if given the option of that or a free 360p
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription.
And we pay what, 10 dollars a month for cable and internet? And we get what, hundreds of channels and more TV shows than you can feasibly watch in a year? I'm sorry but there is a large difference between what cable TV offers and what SC2 streams are offering. When is the last time the NBA had 4 hours of downtime because of technical difficulties? When is the last time an NBA team chose to forgo their match because they were too tired or didn't think the money was worth it? Honestly, theres a vast difference in professionalism and marketability between organizations like the NBA and IPL (for instance). I think this thread more represents people in the E-Sports industry getting frustrated because they aren't making big bucks yet. I'm sorry but you aren't curing cancer, you aren't saving lives, you aren't very important on the larger scale. If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money. If you want to live a cushy life full of commodities, go to college, get a degree and get a meaningful job. E-sports is a hobby to most of us, not a necessity. I can play SC2 and be content, it's nice to be able to watch streams and tournaments, but my life will continue happily if all I can do is play and not watch. '
This sounds harsh, but in reality, SC2 and E-sports rank pretty low on my list of priorities.
Professionalism is a key part of it, but I think the issue at hand isn't that these companies demand that they start making millions and millions of dollars (Even though this is their goal), this is about companies finally saying, "look, we cant give you what you guys want if you guys cant give us what we need to do so." Everyone with any sort of business sense can see that this esports production industry grown too quickly too fast, and cannot deliever whats demanded, and this isnt exclusive to esports.
Bubbles burst, the smart adapt and the strong survive, the dead weight will be shed and in the end it either works or its gone, this is survival of the fittest and this is how the world works. All we can do is continue to watch, express interest, attend events, and contribute what money we feel obligated to. If you don't feel obligated to, don't be surprised when there's nothing left for you to enjoy.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
I'm not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I don't give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Really dude? Why are you even on this website then? I bought a basketball when I was 10, should that entitle me to see every basketball game for free? No one cares if you don't want to spend any money on esports, but don't expect good content when you're obviously not going to shell out any cash.
It's posts like this, that speak to a larger problem of our community. Too many of us have an entitlement problem when it comes to our hobbies. I don't know if it's the nature of espots, or the culture of bit torrent or whatever, but I don't know of any serious sports fans who get upset at buying jerseys or tickets for events. It's sad that many of us try so hard to work in this fledgling industry, while so many refuse to support it.
On February 10 2012 03:18 Klipsys wrote: I find it hysterical how many people are quick to claim eSports is their passion/hobby or whatever, but balk at the idea of *GASP* Spending money on it!?
I spent money on it, I paid for my copy of Starcraft 2.
Im not paying to watch other people play it, just like how I dont give my money to the NBA to watch their players play basketball
Except you do pay money for that. The cable / satellite provider pays hundreds of millions to the NBA for the right to broadcast their games, and that cost is passed on to you as part of your monthly subscription.
If these organizations really loved E-sports then they wouldn't be so hung up on the money.
This stupid comment is the crux of the problem. "Spend your money to give me free content or don't bother." Ridiculous. It's ESPORTS, not C(harity)SPORTS
Haha, that is a pretty silly comment. Conversely, if players really loved e-sports then they would accept love as salaries and prize money, then the entire e-sports industry could run on love for e-sports!
EPT
