On January 23 2012 20:52 Full.tilt wrote: Wouldn't be surprised at all if they (current BW organisations) started up their own tourneys/leagues. Not sure I'd want (from a managers pov) a hugely popular BW pro being thrown into the unknown where it could negatively effect his popularity and standing within esports and therefore his sponsors etc. May as well start a new league where all BW pro's start to play SC2 from a relatively equal footing.
They can just start a tourney of their own. A deal would have to be made with Gretech first. That's why coach Won said that current SC2 teams should be allowed to participate in their tourney if BW teams are allowed to in GSL or GSTL. These things would have to be worked out during the negotiation between Gretech and KeSPA.
On January 23 2012 17:42 Fionn wrote: Maybe have the GSTL champions face the Proleague champions in a Super Bowl-like event. Would probably make a lot of cash.
This is the best and most interesting idea to come out of this thread imo.
Look at the major US sports leagues. Most of them started as 2 separate leagues, eventually joining into a huge league to determine the best of the best. I believe this would be a huge step in creating an all-encompasing sc2 league in Korea.
While I'm not saying what would work for America would work for everyone, I am saying that it has proven successful in the past, so I think it would be a very good experiment for a year or so, and would love to see it.
The old league and the new league, determining their champions, and having those champions face off. Aside from the logistical nightmare that a regular season would entail, would be awesome to see.
Surely what matters is if Blizzard will license a league other than GOM?
The whole point with sc2 is that you cant just start your own league like BW, but you need blizzard's contract and permission to go ahead. Surely any BW teams that come over will have to operate within the framework Blizz + GOM has in korea? which is the GSL as the only league and the GSTL as the only team league. I dont see how Kespa could re-create their BW situation.
On January 23 2012 20:14 Ender985 wrote: However I think it has already been proven that BW skill does not directly correlate to SC2 skill, look at ForGG for a recent example of someone that was supposed to one-handedly win the GSL and got owned fast instead, despite his great micro and innovative strategies.
At the time he moved, forGG was a washed up brood war player with barely over 50% win ratio and more on a level of a b-teamer. He was so bad that ACE Reach beat him twice, and Reach was horrible by then.
Tbh, all this forGG hype is made up by you hopeless SC2 fans because you desperately want a good bw player to switch to show that your game is oh-so-more-awesome-then-brood-war. Too bad forGG wasn't nowhere near those expectations.
Please tell me you are joking. You are saying the sc2 fans were hyping up forGG, really now?
Yeah, I am joking. I was actually the one saying how awesome he is and how he will increase the quality of sc2 talent pool, and bandwagoning in general.
I was also sarcastic when I wrote the above two sentences.
On January 23 2012 21:25 resilve wrote: Surely what matters is if Blizzard will license a league other than GOM?
Why would they not? It's not like KeSPA's money is worth less then Gretech's. Speaking of which, KeSPA and the teams have bigger sponsors and more money at their disposal.
Anyway, you can say all you want about KeSPA, but I'd rather have them give it a try then watch GOM organised events any longer.
On January 23 2012 17:42 Fionn wrote: I think this could be fun. Maybe have the GSTL champions face the Proleague champions in a Super Bowl-like event. Would probably make a lot of cash.
i love this idea. this would be so intense. people like me who are huge into sc2 and only played some games in scbw rooting for "our" stars while the "oldschool bw players" root for their legends.
I'd be interested in how the fanbase reacts if one (or more) of the big 3 (Flash, JD, Bisu) switched race coming to SC2. E.g. Flash playing zerg, would you still be a fan?
On January 23 2012 20:03 InternalSync wrote: If some of Chae's fears come to fruition, the only way they would compete with Kespa is to unite the foreign with the existing Korean SC2 scene. But I wonder what would happen to the foreign scene if the Korean BW and SC2 scene unite under one organization, or at least work closely together.
You can say goodbye to the foreign scene
No way in hell are the BW teams going to let some white guy train with them.
They are ok with it now because they have money, but BW teams have more money than foreign teams. And since they cant speak korean they are of absolute no use to them
CJ and Estro both let Idra train with them even without winning a Courage. One of the main reasons that only three foreigners in the past, what, four years (Nony, Idra and Ret) went to Korea to train with a team is because the foreign scene was miles, and I mean MILES, behind the Korean scene and there really was no use for foreigners in their house. The gap was so large that there really was no point to have any foreigner in your house when even your B-team could crush the guy.
I don't think any Korean team, Brood War or SC2, would give a shit if a guy is white or Korean if their skill is on par with the rest of the team and the player is marketable.
Agreed. Many of the sc2 foreigners can easily beat many of the b-teamers and even handle some on the main line with relative ease. This obviously wasn't the case with BW XD.
Not to mention, if what they said in the internet is correct and the BW teams are after the lower tier players, then that only ups the chances of foreigners getting into that slot.
No it doesnt. Why would they pick up low tier foreigners for their team. They arent good and they cant speak Korean. If they want players to get better they should be able to communicate with each other which they cant because of language barrier. Also foreigners seem to have a problem with team house environments and want to go back home asap
Yeah that's true. There is the language barrier and teamhouse thing. But, they did it in BW, and there are quite a few foreigners now who are more than willing to do the whole teamhouse experience (the slayeres-eg, quantic-st thing etc.)
Many are skilled tthough, maybe not the next MVP, but they're certainly capable of making a splash. At the very least, there as good or better than B-teamers.
Hmmm, reaaaally interesting. This is the sort of problems that come when there is no strong organization for SC2 players. It is indeed in BW teams' interests to seclude GOM and the current SC2 pros and start a completely new tournament, and that would suck pretty hard :/
What I don't necessarily agree with any of these people saying is their opinions on the BW "issues." Sure the BW teams with more money can offer more money to teams and can influence players to switch teams. However, that's not something just based on BW teams. Starcraft teams have to worry about switching teams no matter if from BW or SC2. These two games should not be thought of as rivals, or like the interview revealed, it would ruin a lot of the Starcraft scene. If and when BW pros join Starcraft it should be treated as any other player playing SC2. The new players need to be good to gain respect and regardless of his/her background the new player should be treated as any other SC2 player as of now. Of course if BW teams attempt to create different leagues opposing GSL then something should be changed but as long as the BW and SC2 scenes can work together to create a better environment for STARCRAFT in and of itself, the idea of new players is great. Look at what happened with ForGG. The hype of him was immense when he got into Code S after one season. The hype is good for e-sports. Bring on the new BW players and let the best StarCraft player win!!
Basically the problem with BW teams switching over is they have so much funding compared to the current SC2 scene, they can literally have their own league and exclude any of the current SC2 teams from it (some BW fans/teams see SC2 players as a joke because of their poor performance back in BW).
It's up to all the current SC2 players to step up their game and make sure they are better than all the BW pros who will be switching over eventually. People can say, "Oh what about Fin? He failed in Code S", well he breezed through Code A easily, What happens when all the A-teamers switch? The current low tier players will have no chance at an income(from tournaments) and be forced to sell themselves out to BW teams.
What I think we might see if SC2 teams merging with BW teams even though I don't see the need for BW teams to do so.
On January 23 2012 19:14 1sz2sz3sz wrote: I for one welcome our new KeSPA overlords
Finally some professionalism.
There is a big reason why most of the westerner scene and in particular, Idra dislike anything that has the name KeSPA on it, and it's definitely not Professionalism.
On January 23 2012 21:32 Monsen wrote: I'd be interested in how the fanbase reacts if one (or more) of the big 3 (Flash, JD, Bisu) switched race coming to SC2. E.g. Flash playing zerg, would you still be a fan?
Lol, I really can't see this happening, unless he thinks Thors are ugly..
I fail to see how all this "protectionism" helps the players in any way. It only seems to protect teams from having to pay the players, decent salaries. Transfers are always good. They show the esport is alive and the money is flowing.
And if bw players switching take money away from current sc2 pros, then so be fucking it, they deserve it better!
Don't fix what is not broken. Give free enterprise a chance you marxist/stastist nuts!
On January 23 2012 21:25 resilve wrote: Surely what matters is if Blizzard will license a league other than GOM?
The whole point with sc2 is that you cant just start your own league like BW, but you need blizzard's contract and permission to go ahead. Surely any BW teams that come over will have to operate within the framework Blizz + GOM has in korea? which is the GSL as the only league and the GSTL as the only team league. I dont see how Kespa could re-create their BW situation.
Does this mean that it is Gretech who owns all rights and is the one OGN/KeSPA has to negotiate with? Also, does Gretech have the rights up to May 2013?
There is an obvious risk that Gretech/GOM tries to block a rivaling Starcraft-league, be it BW (already tried/did) or SC2, since it could be perceived as a threat to their market position. What speaks against that scenario is of course the money Gretech would get from licensing as well as a chance to get more fans into the viewer base.
Worst case: deadlock Best case: 50% cooperation + 50% competition.
On January 23 2012 19:14 1sz2sz3sz wrote: I for one welcome our new KeSPA overlords
Finally some professionalism.
There is a big reason why most of the westerner scene and in particular, Idra dislike anything that has the name KeSPA on it, and it's definitely not Professionalism.
Most of the western scene dont know anything about KeSPA and just hate it because its the cool thing to do!
On January 23 2012 21:25 resilve wrote: Surely what matters is if Blizzard will license a league other than GOM?
Why would they not? It's not like KeSPA's money is worth less then Gretech's. Speaking of which, KeSPA and the teams have bigger sponsors and more money at their disposal.
Anyway, you can say all you want about KeSPA, but I'd rather have them give it a try then watch GOM organised events any longer.
OGN destroy GOM on every aspect in production value.
On January 23 2012 21:32 Monsen wrote: I'd be interested in how the fanbase reacts if one (or more) of the big 3 (Flash, JD, Bisu) switched race coming to SC2. E.g. Flash playing zerg, would you still be a fan?
Terran in BW = Terran in SC2 in many ways, I don't see why he would switch.
Blizzard did a good job on keeping the race philosophies and strengths/weaknesses intact in SC2.
Bisu's PvZ style could work very well in SC2 with a few adjustments.
EPT
