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On January 20 2012 13:55 Juvant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:53 hytonight wrote:On January 20 2012 13:51 Leeoku wrote:
honest question. how hard is it to add delay... its clearly easy and it clearly doesnt work. not suprised blizz doesnt really care.....but dont they agree that some people turn it into harassment? (deezer) Again, this type of harassment is one of the prices of streaming. Blizzard can't punish someone for abusing their ladder system via a stream.
Not only that, players that live ladder could choose to do other things like customs and whatnot. I just think that yeah, it sucks, but there are also ways around it as well. Again, stream sniping is dumb and annoying, but it is the player's choice to stream withou delay or whatnot.
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On January 20 2012 13:56 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
The problem I have with this is in cases when combatEZ and deezer prevent a progamer from practicing because they stream snipe them so much (others players do it too but none nearly so well-known). They're trying to make a living, especially in the case of destiny, where viewer numbers matter(ed?) while the sniper is trying to be a nuisance. There's a huge difference.
Actually, I really dislike this decision by blizzard
There is no difference between stream sniping and maphacking. It's not the streamer's fault that hes streaming, its the maphackers/snipers fault for looking at the stream. They can choose whether or not to do so, and only affect themselves. If the streamer decides to delay or shut off the stream, then he loses hundreds or thousands of viewers.
Demuslim handles this very well, he just makes fun of the sniper and mercilessly beats him game after game while giving him tips. When he was losing games, he put the camera on his face and every few minutes would talk about how hes facing combatEZ and trashing him, and he made us have a good time regardless.
There is a very big difference with maphacking. While the two may be similar from an ethical standpoint, maphacking usually modifies Battle.net data, which Blizzard wants to protect themselves against.
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Stream sniping and stream cheating are two different things. It does concern me a little that Blizzard doesn't know the difference.
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Meh, a problem without a real solution. Delaying streams doesn't really work, it screws the streamer/audience 100% of the time, and doesn't actually prevent cheating (just gives you a buffer of time before the 'cheating' kicks in).
The most reasonable approach I've seen is to just not show the ladder screen after a game so that you can queue a random amount of time and avoid getting sniped that way, while still interacting with your viewers (a very important part of streaming which stream delays ruin).
Its sad because we all know its wrong but there isn't really any way to fix it. And we know there are people who make their living off of streaming, so its extra sad knowing the trolls can't be stopped.
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On January 20 2012 13:59 Stipulation wrote:
Stream sniping and stream cheating are two different things. It does concern me a little that Blizzard doesn't know the difference.
whats the difference?
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I hate to sound douchy but I think jargon is important.
Stream sniping is the act using a stream to push the "find match" button at the same time as the streamer; thereby increasing your odds of getting to play Idra, Destiny, etc.
Stream cheating is using the stream to get information to help counter your opponents build, army positioning, expand timing, etc. (equivalent to hacking).
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On January 20 2012 13:58 antzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:56 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
The problem I have with this is in cases when combatEZ and deezer prevent a progamer from practicing because they stream snipe them so much (others players do it too but none nearly so well-known). They're trying to make a living, especially in the case of destiny, where viewer numbers matter(ed?) while the sniper is trying to be a nuisance. There's a huge difference.
Actually, I really dislike this decision by blizzard
There is no difference between stream sniping and maphacking. It's not the streamer's fault that hes streaming, its the maphackers/snipers fault for looking at the stream. They can choose whether or not to do so, and only affect themselves. If the streamer decides to delay or shut off the stream, then he loses hundreds or thousands of viewers.
Demuslim handles this very well, he just makes fun of the sniper and mercilessly beats him game after game while giving him tips. When he was losing games, he put the camera on his face and every few minutes would talk about how hes facing combatEZ and trashing him, and he made us have a good time regardless. There is a very big difference with maphacking. While the two may be similar from an ethical standpoint, maphacking usually modifies Battle.net data, which Blizzard wants to protect themselves against.
Deezer and Combat are not preventing the player from practicing at all, just practicing in a certain form. The players could still play other forms of the game or just take it with a grain of salt and beat down the snipers. They only keep coming because you give them attention. Just kill them and ignore them or just play the game another way.
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Matchmaking needs to be fixed in such a way that you can only play against a certain player so often. There is no reason you should have to play against deezer 3 times in a row. That is just BAD matchmaking. You should be forced into playing against a variety of players on ladder, making repeat stream sniping impossible.
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I mean, what were people really expecting Blizzard to do about this problem. This is the streamer's responsibility not Blizzards.
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On January 20 2012 14:00 nicknack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:59 Stipulation wrote:
Stream sniping and stream cheating are two different things. It does concern me a little that Blizzard doesn't know the difference. whats the difference?
Stream sniping is watching someone's stream when they queue in an attempt to get matches against only that person. Stream cheating is watching during the match - effectively a maphack.
Either way, I don't see how it's Blizzard's responsibility to do anything about it. I guess a tweak to the matchmaking algorithm might be worthwhile though.
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On January 20 2012 14:00 bigAL wrote:
I hate to sound douchy but I think jargon is important.
Stream sniping is the act using a stream to push the "find match" button at the same time as the streamer; thereby increasing your odds of getting to play Idra, Destiny, etc.
Stream cheating is using the stream to get information to help counter your opponents build, army positioning, expand timing, etc. (equivalent to hacking).
how is that equivalent to hacking? if i tell my opponent every move i'm making through chat, is that also hacking?
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On January 20 2012 14:03 neoenigma wrote:
Matchmaking needs to be fixed in such a way that you can only play against a certain player so often. There is no reason you should have to play against deezer 3 times in a row. That is just BAD matchmaking. You should be forced into playing against a variety of players on ladder, making repeat stream sniping impossible.
1+ I always hate laddering and playing the same guy 3 times in a row or race this can prevent that from happening too.
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I guess it's reasonable. If you're making your ingame information available for anyone to see, you can't demand that other people not look at it when playing against you. Stream sniping sucks, stream cheating is even worse, but take pleasure in knowing that the people doing it are literally sitting there and spending hours of their life hoping to steal a fraction of yours.
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I'm not sure why we as a community are still trying to put pressure on Blizzard to resolve this issue when it is the streaming companies that have the power to take action against the offenders. Why can't Twitch.tv IP ban Deezer? I know it is possible to find a way around an IP ban and I'm sure deezer would take the necessary steps to keep doing what he is doing, but it is certainly a start.
Edit: i've just realized the answer to my question... Deezer doesn't need a twitch account to view the stream and there for twitch would have no way to tell which viewer's IP is him :/
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There's no way for them to prove they're stream cheating. They're hardly allowed to spy on what web pages people are entering with some trojan. You can't just look at match history. That's evidence for stream sniping it's not evidence for stream cheating and it's not proof of anything. I've gotten the same person 4-5 times in a row and that person didn't stream to my knowledge.
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Not that I'm criticizing them for not making the distinction, but stream sniping is really more the issue I'd expect them to deal with rather than stream cheating. Stream sniping is using a stream to watch for when someone queues to match against them repeatedly. I can only imagine that intentionally abusing the ladder to match yourself against a particular player is against some sort of policy they have considering you could use it to manipulate ladder rankings. Like others have said, a neat solution would just be to decrease the chances of meeting the same player multiple times in a row.
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Don't most proffessional gamers utterly destroy stream cheaters?
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i got a shiver down my spine when i realised blizzard didn't know the difference between stream SNIPING and stream CHEATING
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What do people expect Blizzard to do to stream snipers seriously.
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I can't see how people are getting mad at Blizzard, its something they have no power over and as such there is no reason to be bitching to them about it.
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EPT
