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On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really..
I can't help but to laugh at this, really..... what do you expect them to do really? Blizzard's in the right this time. People put themselves at risk when Streaming.
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On January 20 2012 13:43 Gl!tch wrote:It appears that Blizzard is indeed aware of the problems with stream sniping, but their initial responce gives little hope for changes to be made. This was the original post of a stickied thread on the Blizzard forums by Community Manager, Bashiok: Show nested quote +We’ve continued to see reports regarding someone live streaming their match, and their opponent watching the stream in order to gain an in-game advantage (also known as stream sniping). While this is obviously poor sportsmanship on the part of the one viewing the stream, we’d like to clarify that this is not a violation of any current policies. In fact, we cannot enforce any ‘fair play’ policies if a user chooses to provide their opponent an advantage. If someone in-game chooses to tell their opponent every move they’re making, thereby informing them how to counter it, we cannot conclude that any violation has taken place. Even if this could be considered a violation, we simply cannot micro-manage every streamed match to ensure the opponent was not looking at it, or using it to their advantage. It goes far beyond the scope of what we’re able to enforce. It’s advisable for those streaming to take precautions, including delaying their streams by a significant amount of time, to avoid any potential advantage they may be providing their opponent.
We are absolutely able to enforce, and will continue to do so, violations that include harassment of others in-game, use of hacks, abuse of our reporting tools, and attempts to disrupt the gameplay of others. If you believe that someone is in violation of the game rules it does not warrant behavior, language, or abuse that would earn you, yourself, a suspension from the game. If you'd like to report an offense, please report the player using clear and descriptive language only once; support will review that report and take action based on the validity of the complaint, not the persistence of the reporting.
The intent with our policies is to ensure a fair and fun experience in Blizzard games, but the act of providing a window into your game for your opponent to see is not considered a violation, should they choose to use that to their advantage. We encourage anyone streaming to keep this in mind while doing so. TLDR: Blizzard is aware of stream sniping, but have no policies against it because streamers are willingly making their games viewable. They suggest that streamers take extra precautions, as they cannot possibly deal with the problem. They will, of course, still be working against hacks and other such violations. Personaly, I think their argument is fine. (Wait, don't rage at me). As much as I would like all stream snipers/cheaters to be permanantly demoted to bronze league, streamers are putting themselves at risk, and Blizzard has no rules against such things. For the record, I watch pro-gamer streams all the time, and it's annoying as a viewer as well as the streamer, as there is nothing fun about watching a game where somebody is cheating. Feel free to discuss, don't get mad if you disagree. P.S. It's been brought up that Blizzard seems to be confused between "stream sniping" and "stream cheating", being that one is queuing up to get a game with a pro, and the other is watching their stream during the game to win. I don't think this matters, thats like correcting somebody's grammar or spelling in an effort to defeat their argument. Blizzards position is quite clear, word choice regardless.
Did you really expect them to say anything else on the matter? To me, it's sounds like common sense and a lot of us have been saying the same thing over and over again. It's just one of those things that comes along with streaming. That's why you probably should avoid streaming during a tournament and let the caster delay do the rest.
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On January 21 2012 17:53 boaecho wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 14:02 boaecho wrote:
What people need to do is buy new accounts and censor all the names and information on their account . Blizzard should also allow people to hide game history so they can't check the opponents for the match history with the censored streamer. There is no reason for so much transparency by Blizzard. Hell...even if they REALLY want transparency, they can provide exception for streamers of notable reputation since they seem like they kind of want to fix it. THERE IS A FIX but Blizz is not doing it. Can anyone be a devil's advocate to my point? I want to know if there are holes in it.
uhmmm, you dont need to know anything but the ladder and teh time they press search to snipe, as long as your mmr is high enough. unless blizzard were to implement a system where players in game were referred to as red and blue, then it would be easy to know which ladder someone was on by their opponents.
i actually have no idea how anything in your post would help at all, the entire idea seems completely incoherent, so i cant be sure if what ive said is valid either.
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If the player is stupid enough to stream in a high profile match then that's his fault. How can anyone ask blizzard to do anything about that. That's like me streaming my cards when I'm playing poker and not expecting people to cheat. Of course they will.
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Don't turn this into a debate of what stream sniping is vs. stream cheating.
They did mistake sniping for cheating, but their answer to the problem is going to be the same. I wish something could be done, but the streamer is the one giving an advantage to the opponent. Glad to see them make a statement on this. There's nothing that can be done on their end.
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On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really..
Say you worked at Blizzard and were part of theh SCII team. What would/could you possibly do to change things? Think of it.
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On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really..
Sorry but i had to laugh at this post. Streamers help to keep SC2 what is? What does that even mean. If something does that it are the tournaments. The streamers put themselves at risk by streaming in the first place and Blizzard should suddenly find a good way to remove those risks?
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Yea this is pretty much what everyone thought would be blizzard's answer anyways... I mean CombatEX and Deezer are really fucking annoying but blizzard can't ban you for being a asshole irl
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On January 22 2012 01:32 InvXXVII wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really.. Say you worked at Blizzard and were part of theh SCII team. What would/could you possibly do to change things? Think of it.
cant be matched with the same person more than a certain amount of times in a certain timeframe.
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Guys, it isn't Blizzard's responsibility to combat this. Like they said, its equivalent to telling the opponent what you are doing. This is the risk you take with streaming and there is nothing that blizzard could do to stop it on their end.
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On January 22 2012 01:32 InvXXVII wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really.. Say you worked at Blizzard and were part of theh SCII team. What would/could you possibly do to change things? Think of it.
You have a valid point, what can be done about stream cheating?
That said, I always thought it would be awesome if you could challenged a player in a similar position on the ladder if your both online at the same time.
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On January 20 2012 14:00 bigAL wrote:
I hate to sound douchy but I think jargon is important.
Stream sniping is the act using a stream to push the "find match" button at the same time as the streamer; thereby increasing your odds of getting to play Idra, Destiny, etc.
Stream cheating is using the stream to get information to help counter your opponents build, army positioning, expand timing, etc. (equivalent to hacking).
It's not 'equivalent to hacking at all, and arguing semantics is irrelevant - either way Blizzard's position will be the same
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dont know if someone else had this idea in the 19 pages but isnt a simple way to name the players as player 1 vs player 2 or blue vs red and reveal the names on the score screen ?
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Can't streamers just delay their stream by like a minute or so? i know lol streamers do this quite often.
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On January 22 2012 01:52 KCrazy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 01:32 InvXXVII wrote:On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really.. Say you worked at Blizzard and were part of theh SCII team. What would/could you possibly do to change things? Think of it. cant be matched with the same person more than a certain amount of times in a certain timeframe.
+1, would probably be good for the game anyway.
And just go ahead and ban Deezer and CombatEX since they're responsible for like 90% of the stream cheating at the GM level anyway.
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The thing about stream sniping is that the streamer just needs to be the better player and simply just win , and if the sniper keeps trying to snipe then just keep beating him till the sniper loses motivation and realizes the streamer is better, Stream cheating is bad and I def. disagree with it but as long as there is a competitive aspect in this game , people will do anything to try to indulge in themselves by trying to win games vs players they dislike or know are popular or for whatever other reason, but the "Stream Sniping " is a lot different than "Stream Cheating" as said in the OP , Stream sniping could never be prevented IMO besides the streamer to just stop streaming, or to just man up and play better and win.
EDIT : Fixed some error in the grammar
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Stream sniping or stream cheating isn't anybody's problem but the streamer. end of story. nothing to discuss. if you cheat off streams you are just ruining your opportunity to play the person straight up, its your loss in the end.
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I know for a fact that HoN players/casters use delayed streaming, why cant Starcraft 2 casters/players do the same thing?
just delay the stream about 5-6-7 minutes.
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On January 20 2012 13:53 hytonight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:51 Leeoku wrote:
honest question. how hard is it to add delay... its clearly easy and it clearly doesnt work. not suprised blizz doesnt really care.....but dont they agree that some people turn it into harassment? (deezer)
Doesn't care?
What the hell are they supposed to be able to do about it?
If the delay isn't helping the streamer, they aren't delaying it long enough.
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On January 22 2012 01:52 KCrazy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 01:32 InvXXVII wrote:On January 21 2012 16:32 foxmulder_ms wrote:
wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really.. Say you worked at Blizzard and were part of theh SCII team. What would/could you possibly do to change things? Think of it. cant be matched with the same person more than a certain amount of times in a certain timeframe.
That works when there are a sufficiently large number of people queuing in a given MMR range. What would you do if your rule caused highly rated players to have to wait in the queue for 10~20 minutes between matches? (This is exactly what used to happen in Blizzard's old matchmaking algorithms, in Wow Arenas circa 2007).
It's a tradeoff. Out of:
- Quick games
- Evenly matched games
- Games against unique players
You often only get to pick one or two out of those three variables when the pool of players in a given MMR range becomes very sparse.
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EPT
