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On January 21 2012 14:08 enzymezero wrote:
Can't you game/match fix the system by stream sniping? If you for example, snipe someone that you know you can beat, and win continiously? If that is the case, isn't that considered cheating?
With that in mind, why is it that Blizzard must step in? Or rather, why do we not go and yell at Twitchtv or Own3d to include a reasonable delay system? I think that Own3d already has that available from a previous post. Having a delay system that you can set will both reduce stream sniping and prevent stream cheating.
To submit another analogy: When I am at a tournament, and someone does something to cheat vs me or someone games the system to play vs me knowing they can beat me, I don't complain to Blizzard. I complain to the tournament hosts.
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wow... I just cannot believe some posts here... Blizzard should be on his knees thanking streamers for their help to keep SC2 what it is. Streams are the backbone of this community and Blizzard should have been helping them gladly. It is Blizzard's lost really..
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On January 20 2012 16:40 Canucklehead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:43 screwy474 wrote:
Couldn't blizzard simply add the ability to avoid players on ladder to b.net? Wouldn't that solve the entire stream sniping issue. Then for stream cheating in tourneys they have officials to deal with that stuff so the problem would disappear. I mean I could be over simplifying this entire thing but this seems like a pretty simple fix. You give people the ability to avoid people on ladder, then everyone will avoid people they can't beat and thus the ladder ranking system would be way off.
Yes I would. With some sort of limit on how many people you could avoid of course. Enough people where trying to stream snipe and cheat on multiple accounts is so expensive it becomes not worth it. While still not being so many that match making would be broken. Maybe somewhere around 50 or so. Considering how many people actually play and how much money each account would cost this number seems reasonable and I would venture to guess that it could be even higher without having any true effect on the matchmaking system.
Your argument seems to rely on the idea that you could for some reason block an unlimited number of accounts and while i never specified that this was never an intention, I figured it could be safely assumed this was not the case.On top of that why do you care if people ruin their own game experience by attempting to never play people that challenge them as a player? Your ladder experience would not be cheapened at all by the loss of those that do not wish to challenge themselves for those that do not challenge themselves do not improve.
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No, that system would be terrible. And it still wouldn't fix anything. Stop suggesting it.
You would ruin the ladder if everyone didnt have the proper chance to play anyone else. Even one person.
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On January 21 2012 16:38 screwy474 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 16:40 Canucklehead wrote:On January 20 2012 14:43 screwy474 wrote:
Couldn't blizzard simply add the ability to avoid players on ladder to b.net? Wouldn't that solve the entire stream sniping issue. Then for stream cheating in tourneys they have officials to deal with that stuff so the problem would disappear. I mean I could be over simplifying this entire thing but this seems like a pretty simple fix. You give people the ability to avoid people on ladder, then everyone will avoid people they can't beat and thus the ladder ranking system would be way off. Yes I would. With some sort of limit on how many people you could avoid of course. Enough people where trying to stream snipe and cheat on multiple accounts is so expensive it becomes not worth it. While still not being so many that match making would be broken. Maybe somewhere around 50 or so. Considering how many people actually play and how much money each account would cost this number seems reasonable and I would venture to guess that it could be even higher without having any true effect on the matchmaking system. Your argument seems to rely on the idea that you could for some reason block an unlimited number of accounts and while i never specified that this was never an intention, I figured it could be safely assumed this was not the case.On top of that why do you care if people ruin their own game experience by attempting to never play people that challenge them as a player? Your ladder experience would not be cheapened at all by the loss of those that do not wish to challenge themselves for those that do not challenge themselves do not improve.
Excellent idea, lets give everyone the opportunity to avoid better players than them. Then the ladder will become even more representative
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On January 21 2012 14:02 boaecho wrote:
What people need to do is buy new accounts and censor all the names and information on their account . Blizzard should also allow people to hide game history so they can't check the opponents for the match history with the censored streamer. There is no reason for so much transparency by Blizzard. Hell...even if they REALLY want transparency, they can provide exception for streamers of notable reputation since they seem like they kind of want to fix it. THERE IS A FIX but Blizz is not doing it.
Can anyone be a devil's advocate to my point? I want to know if there are holes in it.
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The hole is that it's nothing to god damn do with Blizzard.
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If I have a teamspeak channel and talk about my games (no stream) and my opponent joins so he knows what I'm doing against him... How is that something Blizzard should (or could) fix?
If someone starts harassing me over teamspeak should I ask Blizzard for the ability to block them?
If a poker player (p)lays his cards face up so his fans can watch it's hardly up to the WPT to punish his opponents...
Perhaps we should be looking at twitch/own3d for solutions... I know there are delay options, but why not options for better known streamers (the ones "suffering") to have "private" channels so they could kick/ban viewers (like they can in chat).
Sure, this would eliminate some of the viewers (who wants to log in just so they can view a stream) and it might be hard to figure out what viewer is the doing the sniping, but it would be an alternative to shutting down the stream...
Bottom line: It's up to the players/community/service to come up with a solution. This isn't a Blizzard problem (no matter how much streaming might be good for their product).
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On January 21 2012 14:08 enzymezero wrote:
Can't you game/match fix the system by stream sniping? If you for example, snipe someone that you know you can beat, and win continiously? If that is the case, isn't that considered cheating?
You can do this just by having someone on your friend list and queuing up when you see their status change (afaik, that's "actually" how stream snipers [and cheaters] do it b/c it's quicker than reacting to the 10s delay most streams have).
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I agree with Blizzard's stance on this. Streamer's are aware of the risk they take when they start streaming in the first place. It's only natural that once you get more exposure ( and money as well ), that you drag enough attention to loose to some stream snipes here or there. Such is the price to pay for fans and recognition I guess.
Blizzard can only control so many things, and this issue is pretty much out of they jurisdiction, and interest. Imo
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On January 21 2012 16:38 screwy474 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 16:40 Canucklehead wrote:On January 20 2012 14:43 screwy474 wrote:
Couldn't blizzard simply add the ability to avoid players on ladder to b.net? Wouldn't that solve the entire stream sniping issue. Then for stream cheating in tourneys they have officials to deal with that stuff so the problem would disappear. I mean I could be over simplifying this entire thing but this seems like a pretty simple fix. You give people the ability to avoid people on ladder, then everyone will avoid people they can't beat and thus the ladder ranking system would be way off. Yes I would. With some sort of limit on how many people you could avoid of course. Enough people where trying to stream snipe and cheat on multiple accounts is so expensive it becomes not worth it. While still not being so many that match making would be broken. Maybe somewhere around 50 or so. Considering how many people actually play and how much money each account would cost this number seems reasonable and I would venture to guess that it could be even higher without having any true effect on the matchmaking system. Your argument seems to rely on the idea that you could for some reason block an unlimited number of accounts and while i never specified that this was never an intention, I figured it could be safely assumed this was not the case.On top of that why do you care if people ruin their own game experience by attempting to never play people that challenge them as a player? Your ladder experience would not be cheapened at all by the loss of those that do not wish to challenge themselves for those that do not challenge themselves do not improve.
Someone could ladder while avoiding maybe 1/4 of the players in GM. How on earth is that fair? This isn't so much about the "ladder experience", but Blizzard actually tries to legitimize the ladder by placing some emphasis on it, like awarding spots for their invitationals.
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There is an elephant in the room that has barely been touched on here: Saying that the immature pranks that the likes of Deezer play on pro gamers hurts them in any way is a FALLACY. It increases the popularity of streams and adds the drama of having someone to hate. I'd go so far as to campare it to people watching car racing just to see a crash. Everybody knows that Destiny's online clashes with Deezer and the like have created more buzz for him than anything else. Seriously guys stop with the whining and enjoy this game.
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Kind of surprised that people even expect blizzard to do anything.
Btw. what is that with twitch not having a "decent" delay system? Because I think that is the key to everything.
Even with delay, you can interact with your fans in the chat. Just wait the appropiate minutes till they caught the end of a match and you can catch with them.
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Since it's ladder games I don't really think there's a whole lot that can be done. There's stream delay, but many prominent streamers want to be able to interact live with their viewerbase etc. It's a choice, and as long as pro players use ladder exclusively for practice and it holds no significance outside of that I don't think it's meaningful to do anything about it.
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On January 21 2012 21:15 Shafanhow wrote:
There is an elephant in the room that has barely been touched on here: Saying that the immature pranks that the likes of Deezer play on pro gamers hurts them in any way is a FALLACY. It increases the popularity of streams and adds the drama of having someone to hate. I'd go so far as to campare it to people watching car racing just to see a crash. Everybody knows that Destiny's online clashes with Deezer and the like have created more buzz for him than anything else. Seriously guys stop with the whining and enjoy this game.
Actually alot of viewers leave when (For example) Destiny is forced to cover his screen for 10-20 minutes to play a game..
My english isn't very good, but did you just try to say that deezer is the reason destiny gets so many viewers? O.o
"Stop the whining and enjoy this game" that's the problem, people like deezer stream snipes, start spamming bullshit and ruins the fun for alot of people watching.
I just dont understand how people can defend someone like Deezer, when all he does is act like a little kid and waste alot of peoples time when they try to stream.
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Is this troll thread or what? If you choose to stream and ur famous you simply must take something like this into account also its ur choice to stream. I understant that streams are vital part of sc community and few ppl are trying to ruin but thats how it is. I dont see how this is blizzard issue at all.
Atm only possible options
a) Delay stream by few minutes wich hinders possible reaction with audience
b) Cover stream like Destiny wich isnt rly what we want to watch
Both of them are bad i hope we can come up with something soon
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only way really is to mark the stream snipers. Unless every viewer will have to install a program that checks if any of the computer with the same IP is in the battlenet and then deny access and even then its not save lol.
If you want to make money with streaming i guess you have to live with it, because no one can really help you against this, as its your own choice to stream, unless you sue someone in the world you don't know for harassment.
But blizzards hint is basically the easiest way to do it, and probably the only reason of their statement. Just need a techie friend to setup a stream delay for you. Got someone trying to snipe you turn on till they leave frustrated as they will never be able to snipe you (searching match wait a few seks cancel and the stream sniper will have to fight someone else).
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On January 20 2012 13:58 FabledIntegral wrote:That's not even the definition of stream sniping, what!? Stream sniping is merely watching the other player's stream to try and get matched vs them, then you CLOSE the stream. What they're describing is stream cheating. Massive difference. Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:57 nicknack wrote:On January 20 2012 13:54 blah_blah wrote:
Encouraging to know that Blizzard can't even be bothered to figure out what stream sniping actually is. Not sure if trolling or just didn't read He's right, you're wrong.
Well considering I remember the cast of State of the Game using the term "stream sniping" to refer to stream cheating back when Destiny got banned for spamming Deezer, I think Blizz can be forgiven.
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What you do is you black out the screen when you are about to que, turn off the SOUND so they cant hear you searching and then you wait a random amount of time (between 10 seconds and 30) THEN you can search.
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On January 22 2012 00:32 Lebzetu wrote:
What you do is you black out the screen when you are about to que, turn off the SOUND so they cant hear you searching and then you wait a random amount of time (between 10 seconds and 30) THEN you can search.
Stream sniping is usually NOT done through stream...On January 21 2012 18:35 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 14:08 enzymezero wrote:
Can't you game/match fix the system by stream sniping? If you for example, snipe someone that you know you can beat, and win continiously? If that is the case, isn't that considered cheating? You can do this just by having someone on your friend list and queuing up when you see their status change (afaik, that's "actually" how stream snipers [and cheaters] do it b/c it's quicker than reacting to the 10s delay most streams have).
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EPT
