EPTTLPD Winrate Charts: December - Page 2
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secretary bird
447 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:30 MilesTeg wrote: PvZ favouring Protoss again, I can't say I'm surprised. It's only going to get worse IMO. Holy shit ! After 8 months protoss do beat zerg ! Better call the balance team ! | ||
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:13 HaXXspetten wrote: Why did TvP become more Terran favored after the EMP nerf? -.- Other than that, it looks like the winratios are going in the right direction. I think Terrans just stopped freaking out about it. It only took a single month of a slight Protoss statistical advantage for a bunch of them to start preaching the end of the world, and now it's swung back again. Hilarious. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:42 secretary bird wrote: Most TvP games never see the lategame because terrans have realized that early aggression is superior to greedy play which makes you vulnerable to protoss all ins without creating a sufficient advantage for the terran player. Agreed. There seems to be a myth going round that the 1-1-1 has been "solved", and it is impossible to pressure Protoss early on. There are still a ton of all-ins which Terran can do, and Protoss basically cannot go Nexus first any more because there are so many ways to abuse it (see: Puma vs HerO Game 6 DHW, HuK vs Keen GSL Code A). MVP has shown that while the Puma 1-1-1 is no longer as effective, Marine/Tank based pushes still crush in the early game, even against the likes of MC. Then there are Mech/Air TvP attacks in the midgame, like in Jjakji vs Oz (GSL Ro4). | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:34 Dragar wrote: Which should immediately scream that these statistics shouldn't be taken as particularly useful, if one player can flip who the matchup favours. Eh, I don't think you two have actually taken any time to think about this. Take out MC's game and you would not get drastically different results. But please continue to disregard any stats based on feelings. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:35 Elwar wrote: Terran started dominating late game TvP with ghost/viking and protoss reintroduced the turtle-to-mothership back to PvZ. Zergs are starting to deal with motherships much better, though I've yet to see a convincing answer to late game terran from any protoss. I like this kind of ridiculous generalization. We've not seen THAT many games ending with a mothership PvZ... | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:48 nam nam wrote: Eh, I don't think you two have actually taken any time to think about this. Take out MC's game and you would not get drastically different results. But please continue to disregard any stats based on feelings. While MC's games alone might not make a dramatic shift in the graph, it's more the trendsetting which will change winrates. For example, MC showed that Gateway armies can be used to attack Terran when nobody thought you could. He showed the power of Sentries early-midgame. He made Stargate work against Zerg, and prompted a bunch of other players to do similar styles. Basically, he blazed a trail for other Protoss players to win. Hence, when he fell from grace (and Code B), the whole Protoss winrate fell too, showing that without innovative leaders and inspiration it would be harder to win. No other Protoss has changed the metagame so absolutely over such a long period. The same thing could be said about Nestea, but I don't think the same thing can be said of any Terran: While MVP is clearly the best Terran and has innovated quite a bit, I don't think MVP blazed a trail in hard times for his race at all (possibly because Terran has never seen any "hard times" in terms of winrates...) | ||
zere
Germany1287 Posts
Also, in the upcoming January episode, graphs for Sep/Oct/Nov will probably change a bit once more, as there still is quite a backlog of games for these months. | ||
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:42 SeaSwift wrote: Same person, but more games have been added to TLPD since then, because not all games are added to TLPD as soon as they are played out. There is normally a delay. Thanks again, Ctuchik. Is your name by any chance taken from the Belgariad by Eddings? Yup, quite a few games have been added to those months. I think it might be yeah. Picked it up ages ago and I honestly don't remember.  | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Glad other Terrans have just decided to just all in until TvP gets fixed. 3rax + stim + vacs + scvs ftw! | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:45 SeaSwift wrote: Agreed. There seems to be a myth going round that the 1-1-1 has been "solved", and it is impossible to pressure Protoss early on. There are still a ton of all-ins which Terran can do, and Protoss basically cannot go Nexus first any more because there are so many ways to abuse it (see: Puma vs HerO Game 6 DHW, HuK vs Keen GSL Code A). MVP has shown that while the Puma 1-1-1 is no longer as effective, Marine/Tank based pushes still crush in the early game, even against the likes of MC. Then there are Mech/Air TvP attacks in the midgame, like in Jjakji vs Oz (GSL Ro4). Well the fact stands that a build that earlier almost felt like a autowin for Terran now is beatable if you know it's coming. We have seen alot of people beat the 1-1-1 lately, It's still a strong build, but it's been figured out. Also if Terran goes CC first against P, protoss can abuse it in as many ways as a Nexus first. It's a greedy build on most maps without sufficient Intel. I still feel that huge timing pushes/allins are the best way to play as T, which makes for less enjoyable games. But atleast when watching pros the matchups feels better now then it felt months ago. On January 02 2012 20:43 Severian wrote: I think Terrans just stopped freaking out about it. It only took a single month of a slight Protoss statistical advantage for a bunch of them to start preaching the end of the world, and now it's swung back again. Hilarious. I'd rather say that the EMP weakened T's lategame against P even more, making more people do allins which prove to be effective more often and that resulted in stats going up for T again. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:09 Tishe wrote: TvZ seems to be moving towards 50/50 in recent months which is good. PvZ also seems to be the same. I'm kinda curious how did the PvT gap widen after the EMP nerf...... Cause before the nerf Terran players got lazy and relied only on mass EMPing the P army and just stimpacking through it after. With the nerf that got alot harder so T players are starting to use heavy drop styles a lot more which are really good vs early-midgame Protoss. | ||
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On January 02 2012 20:43 Severian wrote: I think Terrans just stopped freaking out about it. It only took a single month of a slight Protoss statistical advantage for a bunch of them to start preaching the end of the world, and now it's swung back again. Hilarious. Don't forget the massive QQ because of the protoss upgrade "buffs" xD | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
Uhm, at top level it is 55% winrate for P, 45% winrate for Z? | ||
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Troublesome
United Kingdom522 Posts
On January 02 2012 21:08 mvtaylor wrote: Haha, standard. Glad other Terrans have just decided to just all in until TvP gets fixed. 3rax + stim + vacs + scvs ftw! How juvenile, the matchup has statistically been in Terran favour for all but 2 months this year. You just need to adapt to patch and meta-game changes like everybody else. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
for T... kind of sad to see T still up that strong. after all that nerfs one would expect terran winrates to swing around 50% just like the should... still we see them dominate. even the last months graphs have turned out to be proterran (like all the other months). i seriously think terran should not get nerfed anymore, but just get cut down in possibilities a little. at least for their openings. it just feels like T would be fine if it wasnt for P/Z losing/getting behind against cheeses that look like standard macro BOs all the time and can't be properly scouted in the first 6mins. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On January 02 2012 21:25 HowardRoark wrote: Uhm, at top level it is 55% winrate for P, 45% winrate for Z? In korea which has 429 games vs 2274 games Internationally. I'd say international is a more reliable graph, international it is 50,3% zerg 49,7% protoss. Even if the winrate gets P favored, who cares? Zerg has been favored in this matchup for 8 months in a row. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
On January 02 2012 21:15 Zorgaz wrote: We have seen alot of people beat the 1-1-1 lately, It's still a strong build, but it's been figured out. did we? i don't recall many 1-1-1's at higher levels recently. as far as i know there still isn't a go-to build to counter it, maybe to allin before terran allins but that's nothing new MC's weird one base stargate into 3-4 gate into dt shrine is still the only "counter build" i've heard of and i've seen him failing with it as much as succeeding on my level i can beat it but i'm curious about the highest level, afaik it's still unique in the sense that u can know it's coming for 5 minutes and still there isn't a safe counter build. | ||
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