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TLPD Winrate Charts: December - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
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krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
January 30 2012 18:16 GMT
#341
The reason we see TvP in Terran favor is pretty simple... Protoss struggle when dealing with multi pronged harassment with drops, and in small engagements, terran is often favored. Top player terrans are extremely good at these things. To add on top of this again, a top level Terran will never accept a bad engagement. Take PuMa vs HerO in the NASL final, the game on bel'shir. Puma was maxed like forever, just sharking outside and making sure his engagement was perfect. When the control from Terran is close to perfect, the terran wins. Think about it, there isn't that much protoss can do, it all lays on terran to execute it correctly. With the right counter composition and great control, terran wins. On top level terrans just gets more wins because of this.

This still don't change the fact that at lower levels, terrans are struggling with protoss for that exact reason - the micro potensial in terran units. It is absolutely needed with good control. I'm not saying that protoss players don't need to micro because they do, but their options are limited and in my own opinion it is much more simple to micro the deathball than the bio ball. Taking into account that lower level players of terran isn't that good at scouting, their composition will often be slightly or way off. Terran is the reactionary race in this game, and you need crisp game understanding, micro and scouting to be effective against a Protoss. Top level players have exactly that, lower level players does not. This goes for TvZ also. A lot of people are struggling because in TvZ terran also depends upon good micro. If you screw up the big engagement you are dead, if you play it perfectly you will most likely win. This is why I think terran is and will remain the strongest race on top top level, but the "worst" or "hardest" race on lower levels.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
January 30 2012 18:16 GMT
#342
It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p


Also! Why is the line always inaccurate? It never fits the numbers behind.
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Trowa127
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1230 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 18:18:20
January 30 2012 18:16 GMT
#343
On January 07 2012 07:45 galivet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 00:16 Xalorian wrote:
On January 06 2012 23:39 Rye. wrote:

@ZenithM
Im plat terran. My TvP is 30%, my TvZ is 70%....go figure.

@Xalorian
The winrates are from TL database. They have almost no relevance to the ladder. Most people that whine are below masters league. So these graphs have even less relevance to them.


Another one with a TvP of 30%, lol.

Why are those "Below master" are fucking whining in this thread if this thread have no relevance to them? This make no sense, sorry.

And, I will repeat it : blizzard income from SC2 do NOT come from low level players playing casually, and will never be. Those players have already bought the game, anyway, so eh? And you do understand that probably half if not more of those who bought the game are playing only custom games and are absolutly not competitive? And that the other half care more about high level play than their own play, because they are following the scene?

And you do understand that blizzard probably make way more money from sponsoring tournament, from receiving money from tournamenet and organisation for "rights" of using their games, and from all the people that heard of the scene because of tournament and etc and have bought the game afterward?

Saying that blizzard need to start balacing the game toward low level players to make money is retarded, sorry. The game is that popular only because SC1 was competitive and balanced toward high level players, in the first place.

And no, blizzard is not balancing toward low and high level players. It is only balanced toward high level players and it's fine this way. Also your comparison to football fans is stereotypical and flat out wrong. Get off your high horse, you're terrible at starcraft 2 and your blaming the game for your poor play. Deal with it.

Don't worry. Blizzard know how to make money and they don't need tips.


I don't agree with this.

I was a diamond player. I got bored with the game during the extended "sad zealot" period that lasted most of this year and mostly stopped playing. I wasn't close to a pro, but I also knew that I never would be because I have a life outside of this game. I lost interest because the game isn't balanced at diamond level; it makes the game feel flawed. I don't care if it's balanced at some perfect level of play that I would never achieve; if I'm going to put my time in I want it to be balanced for me. So I mostly stopped playing, but I continued to watch the GSL and a few streams for entertainment.

I'm gamer, though, and just watching from the sidelines doesn't cut it for me. So I started playing LoL instead. Shortly thereafter I stopped playing SC2 completely and stopped watching streams and tournaments because I...just moved on. I check this forum on TL every Friday to see whether some new patch of awesomeness is pending that would make me interested in the game again. From what I've seen of HotS, it doesn't look interesting enough to pay for when there are more fun games in the genre that are 100% free like LoL.

Starcraft 2 may as well bear a warning label, "Not for casual play". Not because it's hard, but because it's not balanced at the levels of skill that casual players can reach. It leads to people giving up on playing the game out of frustration. People who stop playing eventually stop watching tournaments too, and that means they stop contributing to Blizzard's income. Gamers are not like couch-potato football fans who are content to cheer at a television set broadcasting a game they could never hope to play. Gamers care about games they can play themselves, on even footing with their competition.

Hell, even in football, it's one football team playing another football team at the game of football. It's not a football team playing against a cricket team at the game of polo. What does balance even mean in a game like SC2, outside of mirror-matches? In LoL it's so much more clearcut.


You play LoL and you are saying sc2 isn't balanced properly at low levels? What? I'm sorry to sound offensive but if you haven't noticed the revolving door, wheel of fortune way Riot buffs champions to god tier only to nerf them into oblivion then you don't really play much. LoL is incredibly imbalanced, the only reason its less noticeable is because there is a massive selection of champions to choose from. Try going into a 5v5 with a team of tier 4 champions and not QQ.

I'm a diamond Protoss and I don't understand what you are saying at all. When I lose, its because I'm bad, not becuase of some kind of imaginary low level imbalance.
Bling, MC, Snute, HwangSin, Deranging (<3) fan. 'Full name - ESP ORTS' Vote hotbid. Vote ESPORTS.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
January 30 2012 18:24 GMT
#344
On January 31 2012 03:16 Cereb wrote:
It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p


Also! Why is the line always inaccurate? It never fits the numbers behind.


The bar is for the last month, the line is for the last three months.
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
January 30 2012 18:44 GMT
#345
On January 31 2012 03:16 Cereb wrote:
It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p


On January 31 2012 03:05 weiliem wrote:
P is taking over PvZ completely....
Edit: In korea i mean, it is where the stats actually matters.... lol



Wow this is awesome. Terran dominates protoss and zerg everywhere since day 1, means terran players must be better!
Zerg dominates ZvP for 4 months (korea) and 6 months (international), means game is ok.

Two months of P>Z and the game is broken? xD Had a good laugh, honestly.
Revolutionist fan
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
January 30 2012 18:45 GMT
#346
It's a bit late, but:

LET THE BALANCE WHINES COMMENCE
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
January 30 2012 18:47 GMT
#347
I hope this wasn't asked before, but does anyone know why the number of ZvPs is a good 10% lower than the other two matchups?
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
January 30 2012 18:54 GMT
#348
On January 31 2012 03:47 Jerubaal wrote:
I hope this wasn't asked before, but does anyone know why the number of ZvPs is a good 10% lower than the other two matchups?


Because there are more terrans in the GSL.
Valikyr
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
January 30 2012 19:16 GMT
#349
On January 31 2012 03:44 Salteador Neo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 03:16 Cereb wrote:
It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p


Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 03:05 weiliem wrote:
P is taking over PvZ completely....
Edit: In korea i mean, it is where the stats actually matters.... lol



Wow this is awesome. Terran dominates protoss and zerg everywhere since day 1, means terran players must be better!
Zerg dominates ZvP for 4 months (korea) and 6 months (international), means game is ok.

Two months of P>Z and the game is broken? xD Had a good laugh, honestly.

This. Terran has more or less always been a bit favored and the last half year or so zerg has generally been favored against protoss too. But if protoss is favored just slightly for more than one month straight the game must be broken!!1
lgn!
Profile Joined February 2010
Italy224 Posts
January 30 2012 19:37 GMT
#350
Protoss y u no win

User was warned for this post
화이팅
bpgbcg
Profile Joined February 2011
United States74 Posts
January 30 2012 19:40 GMT
#351
It's funny; in February, we had T>Z>P>T, each with a 60-40 margin.
I don't have the creativity to think of a signature.
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 20:05:42
January 30 2012 20:05 GMT
#352
why are people such drama queens? since when is a 10% difference in winrates "dominating differences"?
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
January 30 2012 20:33 GMT
#353
On January 31 2012 03:54 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 03:47 Jerubaal wrote:
I hope this wasn't asked before, but does anyone know why the number of ZvPs is a good 10% lower than the other two matchups?


Because there are more terrans in the GSL.


Yeah, I thought it might have meant something more significant, but I guess if T>Z>P then T*Z>T*P>Z*P.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
January 30 2012 20:37 GMT
#354
Zealot still sad :[
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
January 30 2012 21:16 GMT
#355
can't wait till players will drop ghost marauders mixes in lategame pvt. Warpin zealots, snipe gone before it was there. Its so much fun if you see a round of zealots and then the ghost drops out. That being said, in some pvt i noticed the toss just went to 190 supply to fend of harassment with warpins and it seems to work pretty well. Alongside with a prism to warpin for harassment.
But ye after the emp nerf, protoss doesn't seem to spread their energy units at all. And chargelots still are baited to clump up around after charge so 1 emp gets them all. It is quiet interesting how well chargelots work if you charge per hand. So there is still alot of potential in the toss army to fight against these winrates. Terran just boosted their play alot faster after the emp nerf. (Ghost heavy play just came up, so the nerf didn't destroy alot of research for the terran).
But more and more tosses use storm again, which works quiet effective.
TheTurk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States732 Posts
January 31 2012 02:05 GMT
#356
TyTy.
Terran winrate still higher than all else but w/e.
It's k.
Starcraft is a lifestyle.
Cyclone999
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada331 Posts
January 31 2012 02:18 GMT
#357
Kay, from my personal opinion

High level Terran <-----------------------> High level Protoss
-Needs good army control -Good forcefields, storm
-Multitask opponent -Defend against harassment

Low level Terran <------------------------------------------------> Low level Protoss
-Needs better army control than Protoss -Just needs to hit one good storm
-Out-multitask, in hopes that it will do damage -warpin units are good to stop drops

From my opinion Terran needs a lot of APM and skill to beat Protoss between bronze-diamond, because we aren't MVPs and we can't make every marine trade cost effectively, nor can we instantly get another army once we lose ours (ohey I wish I could warp in sentries and hold off my ramp forever!) Later on at the high levels, Protoss can hold off harassment pretty well (dunno how you guys can't already, warpins are pretty good until max) and their storms are stupidly good.

Call me biased and a QQing noob, but it's true. Protoss micro is a lot less demanding and forgiving than Terran.
16 year old Masters Terran :D
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
January 31 2012 02:23 GMT
#358
Can't wait for Janurarys.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
deadmau
Profile Joined September 2010
960 Posts
January 31 2012 03:12 GMT
#359
At least the Terrans crying over Protoss "upgrades buff" that gave an extra stalker or zealot is over that shit was laughable.
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