EPTThis still don't change the fact that at lower levels, terrans are struggling with protoss for that exact reason - the micro potensial in terran units. It is absolutely needed with good control. I'm not saying that protoss players don't need to micro because they do, but their options are limited and in my own opinion it is much more simple to micro the deathball than the bio ball. Taking into account that lower level players of terran isn't that good at scouting, their composition will often be slightly or way off. Terran is the reactionary race in this game, and you need crisp game understanding, micro and scouting to be effective against a Protoss. Top level players have exactly that, lower level players does not. This goes for TvZ also. A lot of people are struggling because in TvZ terran also depends upon good micro. If you screw up the big engagement you are dead, if you play it perfectly you will most likely win. This is why I think terran is and will remain the strongest race on top top level, but the "worst" or "hardest" race on lower levels.
TLPD Winrate Charts: December - Page 18
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krooked
376 Posts
This still don't change the fact that at lower levels, terrans are struggling with protoss for that exact reason - the micro potensial in terran units. It is absolutely needed with good control. I'm not saying that protoss players don't need to micro because they do, but their options are limited and in my own opinion it is much more simple to micro the deathball than the bio ball. Taking into account that lower level players of terran isn't that good at scouting, their composition will often be slightly or way off. Terran is the reactionary race in this game, and you need crisp game understanding, micro and scouting to be effective against a Protoss. Top level players have exactly that, lower level players does not. This goes for TvZ also. A lot of people are struggling because in TvZ terran also depends upon good micro. If you screw up the big engagement you are dead, if you play it perfectly you will most likely win. This is why I think terran is and will remain the strongest race on top top level, but the "worst" or "hardest" race on lower levels. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
Also! Why is the line always inaccurate? It never fits the numbers behind. | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On January 07 2012 07:45 galivet wrote: I don't agree with this. I was a diamond player. I got bored with the game during the extended "sad zealot" period that lasted most of this year and mostly stopped playing. I wasn't close to a pro, but I also knew that I never would be because I have a life outside of this game. I lost interest because the game isn't balanced at diamond level; it makes the game feel flawed. I don't care if it's balanced at some perfect level of play that I would never achieve; if I'm going to put my time in I want it to be balanced for me. So I mostly stopped playing, but I continued to watch the GSL and a few streams for entertainment. I'm gamer, though, and just watching from the sidelines doesn't cut it for me. So I started playing LoL instead. Shortly thereafter I stopped playing SC2 completely and stopped watching streams and tournaments because I...just moved on. I check this forum on TL every Friday to see whether some new patch of awesomeness is pending that would make me interested in the game again. From what I've seen of HotS, it doesn't look interesting enough to pay for when there are more fun games in the genre that are 100% free like LoL. Starcraft 2 may as well bear a warning label, "Not for casual play". Not because it's hard, but because it's not balanced at the levels of skill that casual players can reach. It leads to people giving up on playing the game out of frustration. People who stop playing eventually stop watching tournaments too, and that means they stop contributing to Blizzard's income. Gamers are not like couch-potato football fans who are content to cheer at a television set broadcasting a game they could never hope to play. Gamers care about games they can play themselves, on even footing with their competition. Hell, even in football, it's one football team playing another football team at the game of football. It's not a football team playing against a cricket team at the game of polo. What does balance even mean in a game like SC2, outside of mirror-matches? In LoL it's so much more clearcut. You play LoL and you are saying sc2 isn't balanced properly at low levels? What? I'm sorry to sound offensive but if you haven't noticed the revolving door, wheel of fortune way Riot buffs champions to god tier only to nerf them into oblivion then you don't really play much. LoL is incredibly imbalanced, the only reason its less noticeable is because there is a massive selection of champions to choose from. Try going into a 5v5 with a team of tier 4 champions and not QQ. I'm a diamond Protoss and I don't understand what you are saying at all. When I lose, its because I'm bad, not becuase of some kind of imaginary low level imbalance. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On January 31 2012 03:16 Cereb wrote: It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p Also! Why is the line always inaccurate? It never fits the numbers behind. The bar is for the last month, the line is for the last three months. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On January 31 2012 03:16 Cereb wrote: It's funny that people gave Idra shit for saying zvp is toss favored in the interview a few days ago and it turns out it's actually kinda true :p On January 31 2012 03:05 weiliem wrote: P is taking over PvZ completely....  Edit: In korea i mean, it is where the stats actually matters.... lol Wow this is awesome. Terran dominates protoss and zerg everywhere since day 1, means terran players must be better! Zerg dominates ZvP for 4 months (korea) and 6 months (international), means game is ok. Two months of P>Z and the game is broken? xD Had a good laugh, honestly. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
LET THE BALANCE WHINES COMMENCE | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On January 31 2012 03:47 Jerubaal wrote: I hope this wasn't asked before, but does anyone know why the number of ZvPs is a good 10% lower than the other two matchups? Because there are more terrans in the GSL. | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On January 31 2012 03:44 Salteador Neo wrote: Wow this is awesome. Terran dominates protoss and zerg everywhere since day 1, means terran players must be better! Zerg dominates ZvP for 4 months (korea) and 6 months (international), means game is ok. Two months of P>Z and the game is broken? xD Had a good laugh, honestly. This. Terran has more or less always been a bit favored and the last half year or so zerg has generally been favored against protoss too. But if protoss is favored just slightly for more than one month straight the game must be broken!!1 | ||
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lgn!
Italy224 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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bpgbcg
United States74 Posts
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On January 31 2012 03:54 hzflank wrote: Because there are more terrans in the GSL. Yeah, I thought it might have meant something more significant, but I guess if T>Z>P then T*Z>T*P>Z*P. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But ye after the emp nerf, protoss doesn't seem to spread their energy units at all. And chargelots still are baited to clump up around after charge so 1 emp gets them all. It is quiet interesting how well chargelots work if you charge per hand. So there is still alot of potential in the toss army to fight against these winrates. Terran just boosted their play alot faster after the emp nerf. (Ghost heavy play just came up, so the nerf didn't destroy alot of research for the terran). But more and more tosses use storm again, which works quiet effective. | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
Terran winrate still higher than all else but w/e. It's k.  | ||
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Cyclone999
Canada331 Posts
High level Terran <-----------------------> High level Protoss -Needs good army control -Good forcefields, storm -Multitask opponent -Defend against harassment Low level Terran <------------------------------------------------> Low level Protoss -Needs better army control than Protoss -Just needs to hit one good storm -Out-multitask, in hopes that it will do damage -warpin units are good to stop drops From my opinion Terran needs a lot of APM and skill to beat Protoss between bronze-diamond, because we aren't MVPs and we can't make every marine trade cost effectively, nor can we instantly get another army once we lose ours (ohey I wish I could warp in sentries and hold off my ramp forever!) Later on at the high levels, Protoss can hold off harassment pretty well (dunno how you guys can't already, warpins are pretty good until max) and their storms are stupidly good. Call me biased and a QQing noob, but it's true. Protoss micro is a lot less demanding and forgiving than Terran. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
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deadmau
960 Posts
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