I knew this was an issue on certain metalopolis geyers, enough to mess up sentry openings in a noticable way (stalker-sentry-sentry, or 1 gate expand with chrono'd gate vs zerg) but this is bad.

So many messed up geysers, so many map, and 6% is a REALLY REALLY BIG DEAL in every protoss matchup, probably affects zerg quite a lot too if they take the wrong first geyser.

Should be fixed immediately, but then again we still dont have supply depots on ladder map ramps either...

Ansinjunger

United States2451 Posts

December 20 2011 21:46 GMT

#22

So are there stats for the community maps that don't have this problem? Is it a problem with fundamental game design (e.g. hexes) or the mapmaker's fault? It would probably be good to know for sure before blaming Blizzard for both, unless it actually is both, or more.

Roxy

Canada753 Posts

December 20 2011 21:50 GMT

#23

good find. I hope this, along with many of the other glaring deficiencies, gets resolved

architecture

United States643 Posts

December 20 2011 21:54 GMT

#24

We really need community-made maps and a community-made ladder that actually reflects skill a la ICCUP.

Cyro

United Kingdom20322 Posts

December 20 2011 21:59 GMT

#25

On December 21 2011 06:46 Ansinjunger wrote:
So are there stats for the community maps that don't have this problem? Is it a problem with fundamental game design (e.g. hexes) or the mapmaker's fault? It would probably be good to know for sure before blaming Blizzard for both, unless it actually is both, or more.

Blizzard is placing the geysers too far away from the nexus on some spawns but not others to mine to full capacity with 3 workers. The hexes are not the actual cause of the problem, though they could make it harder to place properly. The gas positions were not tested, they were just thrown down and assumed to work properly

FADCoUltra

Canada73 Posts

December 20 2011 22:00 GMT

#26

On December 21 2011 01:46 aksfjh wrote:

Show nested quote +

So can manually forcing workers on specific mineral patches earlier in the game, but we see time and time again that bigger decisions make or break the game. This "bug" is something so insignificant that you people are splitting hairs. Stop nitpicking Blizzard maps and just play the damn game.

I agree with this. Anything below pro level is not even worth the discussion. Even at pro level where everyone trying everything to squeeze out any bit of advantage, I'd seriously doubt that this geyser issue would be the major contributor to any win/loss.

jinorazi

Korea (South)4948 Posts

December 20 2011 22:00 GMT

#27

there's a reason ALL original blizzard maps were replaced by community with better resources layout in bw.
did they not learn anything?

Cyro

United Kingdom20322 Posts

December 20 2011 22:04 GMT

#28

On December 21 2011 07:00 FADCoUltra wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you take that gas and go 1gate robo, your sentry will be like 5 seconds later in pvp. There are too many timings that are disrupted by a drop in gas income

CadaverSculptor

Korea (South)23 Posts

December 20 2011 22:12 GMT

#29

The only benefit here is raised collective awareness, which would ideally evoke corrective action on Blizzard's part.

Bashing Blizzard does nothing. We've already seen, time and time again, how amateur they can be. Their incompetence is nothing new.

Psyonic_Reaver

United States4339 Posts

December 20 2011 22:14 GMT

#30

Brood War had this same problem. But luckily there were Korean map makers to save us.

Bacillus

Finland2008 Posts

December 20 2011 22:16 GMT

#31

I think there might be some pretty big consequences you don't notice due to all the complexity and margins of human error. How many times does a player have +1 hitting in the middle of a crucial battle? In general a lot of upgrades have pretty clutch timings occassionally.

Obviously a lot of stuff can be avoided through refined player actions and adjusting timings a bit, but it's still something that should definitely be fixed.

m0ck

4194 Posts

December 20 2011 22:24 GMT

#32

It's quite impressive how bad blizzard are at making maps after so many years in the rts-genre. The rule of thumb, for knowing whether you're dealing with a blizzard map, is unfortunately to ask: Is it ugly? If yes, blizzard made it. That they are unable to make maps balanced for different spawning positions, or even to correct their mistakes, is just straight up embarrassing.

Champi

1422 Posts

December 20 2011 22:33 GMT

#33

good job picking up on this.

hope its fixed asap

better yet, i hope blizzard stop trying to make their own maps.

YOU ARE BAD AT IT BLIZZARD, USE THE GSL MAPS FFS!!

Elean

689 Posts

December 20 2011 22:36 GMT

#34

You are just making a big deal of something that has no noticeable impact on the game.

When the mineral lines is above your hatchery, you loose some mining time because the mineral patch are further from your larva.

As terran, depending on the ramp position, you may or may not have to lift your barracks to build an add on.

The walking duration is nether exactly symetrical between all the possible bases.

etc. etc. etc;

Your first banshee might come a couple of second later because you needed 4 more gas to build the factory... Yeah, in theory 2s may make a huge difference, but in practice there are like 100 other factors that can dely you that much.

So yeah, nobody should care, unless you want an excuse to criticize Blizzard's maps.

darkscream

Canada2310 Posts

December 20 2011 22:39 GMT

#35

Ah, how far we've come, that +/- 5 gas in the early game is the subject of heated balance debate, rather than "his tanks can hit my natural from his natural" or "he put buildings/units in a spot on the map i can never feasibly get to"

tehemperorer

United States2183 Posts

December 20 2011 22:48 GMT

#36

I think I noticed this very early on Metalopolis. I don't believe it makes a difference much since your first geyser is the one that really matters and most players recognize one geyser on most maps as being the better option for your first geyser.

TheOGBlitzKrieg

United States346 Posts

December 20 2011 22:50 GMT

#37

this really needs to be looked at and fixed, as well as the bigger picture of these bullshit maps they give us. i literally can't believe after what almost 6 months we got 2 new maps? are you serious blizzard? i mean honestly wtf is this bullshit, not only does your battle.net service not allow me to queue up for any custom game but lost temple, but 2 new maps, and 0 new maps last season. Every season should have ALL NEW MAPS... or atleast get off your asses and fix the god damn custom games so that i can play on a map besides shattered temple and xel'naga /rant

lorestarcraft

United States1049 Posts

December 20 2011 22:59 GMT

#38

When I as a newby I used to 4 in sometimes to juice gas production, I convinced myself I was wrong, but maybe I wasn't?

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

December 20 2011 23:00 GMT

#39

Someone should do a summary about all the positional imbalances in Blizzard maps.
Gonna be a lot of work but people need to be aware of how horrible Blizz is at mapmaking and that they don't even think symmetry is important lol

Gladiator6

Sweden7024 Posts

December 20 2011 23:02 GMT

#40

On December 21 2011 08:00 Ragoo wrote:
Someone should do a summary about all the positional imbalances in Blizzard maps.
Gonna be a lot of work but people need to be aware of how horrible Blizz is at mapmaking and that they don't even think symmetry is important lol

Community feels like the only ones that can do something, because Blizzard surely won't.