|
i still think it was disrespectful, but gj doing an interview so fast to shed some light on the situation
|
On December 14 2011 07:32 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:59 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 DrJohnFever wrote:
To be honest, you see this all the time in pro sports. Will the Packers, if they are 14-1 going into their last game, start all their top level players and play simply for the fans? No, because the game simply doesn't matter, and the outcome doesn't matter either. People can chill out. You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. Your logic is failing. There was no money on the line in that game. Nothing to gain. I sure as hell wouldnt work an extra hour if I wasn't getting paid for it, and Naniwa seems to see it that way too. Your logic is failing. You said that "if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". That is not correct, there was no way in which he would have to work for free, he just had his pay assured in advance. There is no increase in pay for playing well, but he is not working for free. That statement doesn't add any value at all. Note that his team expects him to deliver entertaining games. See the Quantic statement I quoted earlier.
Unlike the earlier games, he had nothing to gain financially from playing that game, and thusly Naniwa did exactly what was required of him. He's a pro gamer, not an artist. He competes in StarCraft 2 for money, he's not putting on shows for our entertainment. Technically he played that game, but he didn't fake any competetion. For all I care, he could've a moved probes in every damn game and still earned that money just for showing up, but since he's a professional gamer he only did it in the completely meaningless game.
Go watch WWE if you want a show.
|
It's a pretty brainless thing to do, anyone who has a little respect would at least 4 gate or two gate proxy if you didn't want to play a long game. He owes his new team and GOM to represent them in a decent way, even if he is disappointed with his play in the previous games. He knows his fans would want a decent game too, especially after the previous meetings between the two of them. I don't agree that the game should be played, it's pretty pointless and they were put under stressful situations for such an unneeded game, but NaNi should have thought better. The fact that the Koreans acted that way was a bit over the top too and maybe spoke too soon after the incident and were fumed because of it, maybe now they will rethink their comments, who knows.
|
As a person that payed 10$ for this tournament all I can say is: Fuck you Naniwa. You need to grow up. I hope GSL never gives you a Code A invite again.
|
On December 14 2011 08:54 -Archangel- wrote:
As a person that payed 10$ for this tournament all I can say is: Fuck you Naniwa. You need to grow up.
yeah i have to agree i wanted to see a great match if you can't play your best even for your fans what type of professional are you
|
|
|
On December 14 2011 08:52 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:32 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 07:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:59 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 DrJohnFever wrote:
To be honest, you see this all the time in pro sports. Will the Packers, if they are 14-1 going into their last game, start all their top level players and play simply for the fans? No, because the game simply doesn't matter, and the outcome doesn't matter either. People can chill out. You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. Your logic is failing. There was no money on the line in that game. Nothing to gain. I sure as hell wouldnt work an extra hour if I wasn't getting paid for it, and Naniwa seems to see it that way too. Your logic is failing. You said that "if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". That is not correct, there was no way in which he would have to work for free, he just had his pay assured in advance. There is no increase in pay for playing well, but he is not working for free. He's a pro gamer, nothing more, nothing less. That statement doesn't add any value at all. Note that his team expects him to deliver entertaining games. See the Quantic statement I quoted earlier. Unlike the earlier games, he had nothing to gain financially from playing that game, and thusly Naniwa did exactly what was required of him. He's a pro gamer, not an artist. He competes in StarCraft 2 for money, he's not putting on shows for our entertainment. Technically he played that game, but he didn't fake any competetion. For all I care, he could've a moved probes in every damn game and still earned that money just for showing up, but since he's a professional gamer he only did it in the completely meaningless game. Go watch WWE if you want a show.
Indeed. God forbid we expect entertainment from people playing a video game.
|
I think his attitude stinks and he deserves all the negative attention. There are people paying good money to watch this, for some countries 10 bucks is a lot of money.
It's a shame since he has incredible micro.
|
All these people saying shit about "If you can't play a match for your fans.." etc etc really bothers me. They're not playing and competing in this game for YOU. They're doing it as a career, and for fun. If they don't want to play a match that has no repercussions from losing, they shouldn't have to play the match just to please the fans that think it's only for them.
Again, there are the professionals in sports who do it for the fans and the fan interaction. There are others who do it because they love to compete, and that's all they want to do. Likewise, there are people who love the competition, but also do it for the money.
NaNiwa isn't someone who wants to go out of his way (especially after being so frustrated) just to play a meaningless game for the viewers.
|
On December 14 2011 08:52 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 07:32 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 07:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:59 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 DrJohnFever wrote:
To be honest, you see this all the time in pro sports. Will the Packers, if they are 14-1 going into their last game, start all their top level players and play simply for the fans? No, because the game simply doesn't matter, and the outcome doesn't matter either. People can chill out. You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. Your logic is failing. There was no money on the line in that game. Nothing to gain. I sure as hell wouldnt work an extra hour if I wasn't getting paid for it, and Naniwa seems to see it that way too. Your logic is failing. You said that "if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". That is not correct, there was no way in which he would have to work for free, he just had his pay assured in advance. There is no increase in pay for playing well, but he is not working for free. He's a pro gamer, nothing more, nothing less. That statement doesn't add any value at all. Note that his team expects him to deliver entertaining games. See the Quantic statement I quoted earlier. Unlike the earlier games, he had nothing to gain financially from playing that game, and thusly Naniwa did exactly what was required of him. He's a pro gamer, not an artist. He competes in StarCraft 2 for money, he's not putting on shows for our entertainment. Technically he played that game, but he didn't fake any competetion. For all I care, he could've a moved probes in every damn game and still earned that money just for showing up, but since he's a professional gamer he only did it in the completely meaningless game. Go watch WWE if you want a show.
damn you have some low standards
|
On December 13 2011 23:50 turamn wrote:
I don't understand how one person can disrespect every organization he plays for, jump teams like he's changing underpants, and constantly whine about how he's not getting any respect. I tried to stay positive about Naniwa after he was sold from Complexity, but this just takes the cake.
In the span of a month he has been sold from a team, complained about a tournament he nearly won, and shit all over anyone who paid for the Blizzard cup. I tried to be supportive of him, but I seriously can't do it anymore. His attitude towards everything is a joke and it's become blatantly obvious that he cares for nothing other than him self. This is not the kind of person foreigners need representing themselves on the grandest stage in Starcraft 2 scene.
How did he shit on us? The three games he played prior to the probe rush were NAILBITINGLY close. You tell me what your mindset would be like, losing 3 REALLY close games that you've been preparing for, then having to play a 4th when you and your opponent are already eliminated? Thats a bad tournament setup, stephano did the same thing twice against cloud and no one cared? stephano and bratok also threw games in the asus rog in finland a while back to avoid playing sen, no one gives him shit?
It's cause its Naniwa. Idra GG's when he's winning and no one gives a crap.
|
On December 14 2011 09:02 Mistakes wrote:
All these people saying shit about "If you can't play a match for your fans.." etc etc really bothers me. They're not playing and competing in this game for YOU. .
like hell they are. 'we' are the only reason they get paid to play a game. what naniwa did is flip 'us' the finger.
|
A professional competitor and team always tries their best even if they have no chance of advancing further. Do the worst teams in the NBA, MLB and NFL lay down and refuse to play their games when they no longer have a possibiltiy of reaching the playoffs? No, they get on the field or court every game and try to win (whether they suck or not).
Once again, people who condone this kind of behavior have never played a competitive sport and I GUARANTEE that. You're a loser if you condone that kind of childish crap.
|
On December 14 2011 09:03 j3i wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:52 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 07:32 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 07:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:59 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 DrJohnFever wrote:
To be honest, you see this all the time in pro sports. Will the Packers, if they are 14-1 going into their last game, start all their top level players and play simply for the fans? No, because the game simply doesn't matter, and the outcome doesn't matter either. People can chill out. You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. Your logic is failing. There was no money on the line in that game. Nothing to gain. I sure as hell wouldnt work an extra hour if I wasn't getting paid for it, and Naniwa seems to see it that way too. Your logic is failing. You said that "if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". That is not correct, there was no way in which he would have to work for free, he just had his pay assured in advance. There is no increase in pay for playing well, but he is not working for free. He's a pro gamer, nothing more, nothing less. That statement doesn't add any value at all. Note that his team expects him to deliver entertaining games. See the Quantic statement I quoted earlier. Unlike the earlier games, he had nothing to gain financially from playing that game, and thusly Naniwa did exactly what was required of him. He's a pro gamer, not an artist. He competes in StarCraft 2 for money, he's not putting on shows for our entertainment. Technically he played that game, but he didn't fake any competetion. For all I care, he could've a moved probes in every damn game and still earned that money just for showing up, but since he's a professional gamer he only did it in the completely meaningless game. Go watch WWE if you want a show. damn you have some low standards
I'm saying that you can't demand anything more than that. I'm not saying the games would have been good.
|
As a person who has paid for a gsl ticket i am happy that i dont get a shitty fake match from naniwa like a lot of "honorable" pros would probably have produced.
Respect to that.
People who want to be bullshitted can go and watch professional wrestling ...
|
On December 14 2011 09:07 GrandSmurf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:02 Mistakes wrote:
All these people saying shit about "If you can't play a match for your fans.." etc etc really bothers me. They're not playing and competing in this game for YOU. . like hell they are. 'we' are the only reason they get paid to play a game. what naniwa did is flip 'us' the finger.
Read the other half of my post.
|
On December 14 2011 08:57 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:52 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 07:32 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 07:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:59 bmn wrote:On December 14 2011 06:54 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:48 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:44 KoRStarvid wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 rysecake wrote:On December 14 2011 06:25 DrJohnFever wrote:
To be honest, you see this all the time in pro sports. Will the Packers, if they are 14-1 going into their last game, start all their top level players and play simply for the fans? No, because the game simply doesn't matter, and the outcome doesn't matter either. People can chill out. You're only seeing this from a westerners perspective. Try not being ignorant for once. Well, Naniwa isn't korean, and he never will be. They had Naniwa play a game which had no money on the line at all, and it doesn't matter then if the koreans expect gamers to be entertainers, cause at that moment (from Naniwas point of view) that game had nothing to do with Naniwa being a pro gamer. Naniwa wants to earn an income playing games, GSL had him play even though he wouldn't get one buck for it. guess where he's playing Korea. Guess who's in korea Koreans. Guess you have to deal with their ideals then, seriously. And why is that? GSL basically invites Naniwa to the tournament and then say "But if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". GSL wants to be international, well don't screw with international players then. Wrong. Naniwa received prize money. Your logic is failing. There was no money on the line in that game. Nothing to gain. I sure as hell wouldnt work an extra hour if I wasn't getting paid for it, and Naniwa seems to see it that way too. Your logic is failing. You said that "if it goes down a certain way, you'll have to work for free". That is not correct, there was no way in which he would have to work for free, he just had his pay assured in advance. There is no increase in pay for playing well, but he is not working for free. He's a pro gamer, nothing more, nothing less. That statement doesn't add any value at all. Note that his team expects him to deliver entertaining games. See the Quantic statement I quoted earlier. Unlike the earlier games, he had nothing to gain financially from playing that game, and thusly Naniwa did exactly what was required of him. He's a pro gamer, not an artist. He competes in StarCraft 2 for money, he's not putting on shows for our entertainment. Technically he played that game, but he didn't fake any competetion. For all I care, he could've a moved probes in every damn game and still earned that money just for showing up, but since he's a professional gamer he only did it in the completely meaningless game. Go watch WWE if you want a show. Indeed. God forbid we expect entertainment from people playing a video game.
Sarcasm detected.
This is Gom's fault. You don't pay Naniwa his salary, you pay Gom to provide entertainment. Gom should be smart enough to come up with a format where the players are motivated enough to play their best every single game so that you get your desired entertainment.
|
|
|
It doesn't personally affect me, other than missing a potentially sweet game, but I can see how the people at GOM would be upset. They don't put all this time, money and effort into producing the best SC2 tournament so that players can throw 1 minute games. They have a reputation to uphold as the premier producers of SC2 tournaments and incidents such as this tarnish that reputation. GOM is competing with BW for viewership who already has a high-level reputation for integrity and professionalism. What if everyone who was effectively eliminated from group stage threw their games? GOMtv would become a second-tier backseat tournament compared to BW and lose viewership because of it. I'd expect GOM to take some sort of punitive action against Naniwa as an example to other players that this is unacceptable behavior.
The problem is that none of this ever crossed Naniwa's mind. He didn't purposely try to tarnish their reputation or upset the fans, but that's the problem in itself. He needs to understand where he's at and needs to realize there are other things to consider than his own personal progression in a tournament. The quote about Koreans needing to take things less seriously is just another example of him not understanding the implications of his actions. He is in Korea. Korea takes this stuff seriously, which means he needs to take it seriously as well or risk being ostracized by the Korean community.
|
I can respect his response.
He's just being honest.
I don't think it fair to criticize someone for being true to themselves, EVEN IF in your own opinion their true self is stupid/ignorant/irresponsible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
