EPTStill a NaNiwa fan!
Naniwa Interview - Blizzard Cup Group B - Page 46
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
Still a NaNiwa fan! | ||
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timmc
Australia16 Posts
I think it's awesome and going to be a lot more entertaining and talked about than an auto 4 gate loss. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:39 Paladia wrote: Didn't hear anyone compaining with Stephano and BratOK both tried to throw a game at Dreamhack, that time it was actually worse as they did it to gain benefits. Yes, and I thought it was equally awful, which is why I had hard feeling for gom allowing stephano to participate while sentencing Violet and in particular Choya so hard for what he did (the latter just did something silly on the ladder!). | ||
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gibb
Sweden288 Posts
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XIJABERWALKIX
United States27 Posts
Naniwa doesn't get that doing the things he does (probe rushing, bad interviews, etc) actually hurt the credibility of e-sports. Other professional sports teams play time and time again in "pointless" games, however they play them and they play them with a decent amount of effort. Sure they might try harder if things were on the line, but they still want to win. It's about pride. Possibly even more than that, it's about credibility and heart of the game. No one wants to put money into a league where everyone except the top teams/players start quitting because they have little to no chance of advancing. If that were the case, every single sporting format would be something like elimination style tournaments, there would be no "seasons." Leagues and especially teams need to start coaching players on proper professional etiquette if eSports is to continue to grow at the rate it has been. There are no excuses for things like that anymore. We're so close to the big leagues, it would be a shame for something like that to hold us back. To even play the other side, say Naniwa does really only care about winning money. It wouldn't even be in his best interest to play the way he did. For starters, its not like he's worried about wasting time as he'll probably watch some or the rest of the tournament (vs. going straight to practice or another event). Second, to play in that way is an obvious deterrent from endorsement/sponsorship prospects. No one would want to sponsor a player who doesn't play out their matches, even meaningless ones. While yes, maybe 1/8 (random percentage) of viewers would watch a game that doesn't matter, you are still getting viewers and sponsors are still getting air time. To add to that, I'm sure a lot of people tuned in anyways as he was playing Nestea. If he plays an extraordinary game and say crushes Nestea, people will still talk about that match. It will improve his public perception of how good of a player he is. While pros know that the match really doesn't mean anything, in the public eye a win over Nestea is a win over Nestea. When people talk about Nani, people talk about his sponsors and that's the kind of thing sponsors are attracted to. If he plays a close set, pulls out unorthodox builds, etc. people will STILL talk about it. Naniwa has to realize that a player of his caliber will get media no matter what. So to limit his time on air ACTUALLY HURTS his sponsorship prospects and ACTUALLY HURTS his chances of getting more money. There is absolutely no downside to playing out that match. Other players may be able to get away with throwing games or not trying, but when the public eye is on you so finely, you have to know what's best for your career. Sure you're angry, sure you're upset, but suck it up and realize that you're part of something bigger than yourself. Also if you want to argue the point that leagues should "just cancel" games that don't matter. You run the extreme risk of not having content for x amount of time you had planned out to have the match. I'd rather run a game that doesn't matter than to not have any content for an hour. Secondly you are making the argument that in any sport (pro sports included), teams should not play once they cannot advance. That would be less appealing to sponsors because it's another factor into how much time they will get on air. For example, baseball/basketball/any other sports team would just forfeit all of their games once they knew they wouldn't make playoffs. There would be 0 revenue from those games instead of any at all. Think about how much revenue NFL teams make on "games that don't matter." It's not just about the players anymore, eSports is too big for that. It's about quality control, something that leagues, teams, and players need to work on. | ||
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Stringy
United States127 Posts
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gulati
United States2241 Posts
Seriously. Hypocritical as fuck. Naniwa, you did the right thing, and I would have honestly been upset to see you half-assing a game, which would somehow even out the so-called rivalry between you and NesTea. | ||
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JimSocks
United States968 Posts
Are the packers gonna refund money to fans who bought tickets? Dont think so. People need to chill out | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:55 gulati wrote: Anybody giving shit to Naniwa for not playing a match which he had absolutely ZERO need to perform well in should shut the fuck up. Go look at the All Star games that were played when GSL hit its 1 year anniversary. Were any of THOSE games serious? Why did you not give shit to players then, and when HuK played "seriously" against NesTea and beat him, Koreans had the nerve to say that HuK was trying too hard...!? Seriously. Hypocritical as fuck. Naniwa, you did the right thing, and I would have honestly been upset to see you half-assing a game, which would somehow even out the so-called rivalry between you and NesTea. You are missing the point. Those games were entertaining. Naniwa's game was not, and he never even tried to deliver any value at all to the fans. The fact that he didn't try was what we objected to. It's not that he lost, it's that he didn't try -- either to win, or at least to put up an entertaining fight. Had he done a somewhat sub-par build (but one that can win, if you outplay the opponent) to please the crowd, e.g. rushing a mothership!, this would not be an issue. Hell, I heard some professional players even developed a following by pleasing the crowd like this, even in serious games that matter. There's a very large difference between at least making an effort, showing some respect to the opponent (who practiced for this), providing something for your die-hard fans to watch, and between not even trying. Nobody is saying that Naniwa is being unprofessional by being on tilt after losing those three games earlier. People are saying he is being unprofessional by not making the effort to play out this last game against Nestea despite it being such a visible (on the stage, casted, widely followed) game. | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
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Snijjer
United States989 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:42 Beavo wrote: Way to much stupidity in this thread. I will never cheer for Naniwa ever again, this was just pathetic. Starcraft will never be taken seriously when you see things like this. No other competitive sport worth watching would accept something like this, so why should we? I expect a certain level of professionalism, this was just a joke. Naniwa let his fans down, every one that was watching, his team, his sponsors. Don't even know what else to say but to repeat myself, this was just pathetic. What is with the overly emotional people. I thought eSports was dominated by men, not little girls. This event has not hurt eSports credibility at all. All the people who don't know/care about GSL see this as an overreaction. The only people who have serious opinions on this event are the already 'die-hard' fans. And as pointed out by several people already THIS HAPPENS IN SPORTS. NBA is known as a league where the only games that matter are the finals because for the majority of the season players are not playing hard. And then some teams TANK games at the end of the season for seeding reasons. Can you imagine that! The unprofessionalism of the NBA! No one takes it seriously as a sport amirite? | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:49 XIJABERWALKIX wrote: Naniwa has shown time and time again that the only thing he cares about is winning and making money. He cares nothing of furthering the sport. You should never visibly "stop-trying" in a professional/televised match. However to be fair, he is correct. If he would have 4 gated, nothing would have been said. Naniwa doesn't get that doing the things he does (probe rushing, bad interviews, etc) actually hurt the credibility of e-sports. Other professional sports teams play time and time again in "pointless" games, however they play them and they play them with a decent amount of effort. Sure they might try harder if things were on the line, but they still want to win. It's about pride. Possibly even more than that, it's about credibility and heart of the game. No one wants to put money into a league where everyone except the top teams/players start quitting because they have little to no chance of advancing. If that were the case, every single sporting format would be something like elimination style tournaments, there would be no "seasons." Leagues and especially teams need to start coaching players on proper professional etiquette if eSports is to continue to grow at the rate it has been. There are no excuses for things like that anymore. We're so close to the big leagues, it would be a shame for something like that to hold us back. To even play the other side, say Naniwa does really only care about winning money. It wouldn't even be in his best interest to play the way he did. For starters, its not like he's worried about wasting time as he'll probably watch some or the rest of the tournament (vs. going straight to practice or another event). Second, to play in that way is an obvious deterrent from endorsement/sponsorship prospects. No one would want to sponsor a player who doesn't play out their matches, even meaningless ones. While yes, maybe 1/8 (random percentage) of viewers would watch a game that doesn't matter, you are still getting viewers and sponsors are still getting air time. To add to that, I'm sure a lot of people tuned in anyways as he was playing Nestea. If he plays an extraordinary game and say crushes Nestea, people will still talk about that match. It will improve his public perception of how good of a player he is. While pros know that the match really doesn't mean anything, in the public eye a win over Nestea is a win over Nestea. When people talk about Nani, people talk about his sponsors and that's the kind of thing sponsors are attracted to. If he plays a close set, pulls out unorthodox builds, etc. people will STILL talk about it. Naniwa has to realize that a player of his caliber will get media no matter what. So to limit his time on air ACTUALLY HURTS his sponsorship prospects and ACTUALLY HURTS his chances of getting more money. There is absolutely no downside to playing out that match. Other players may be able to get away with throwing games or not trying, but when the public eye is on you so finely, you have to know what's best for your career. Sure you're angry, sure you're upset, but suck it up and realize that you're part of something bigger than yourself. Also if you want to argue the point that leagues should "just cancel" games that don't matter. You run the extreme risk of not having content for x amount of time you had planned out to have the match. I'd rather run a game that doesn't matter than to not have any content for an hour. Secondly you are making the argument that in any sport (pro sports included), teams should not play once they cannot advance. That would be less appealing to sponsors because it's another factor into how much time they will get on air. For example, baseball/basketball/any other sports team would just forfeit all of their games once they knew they wouldn't make playoffs. There would be 0 revenue from those games instead of any at all. Think about how much revenue NFL teams make on "games that don't matter." It's not just about the players anymore, eSports is too big for that. It's about quality control, something that leagues, teams, and players need to work on. I don't agree with your assessment of naniwa at all. What naniwa cares about is being the best, and to do that he makes big sacrifices. That is what makes playing the game for the position of fourth in the group meaningless. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:49 XIJABERWALKIX wrote: Naniwa has shown time and time again that the only thing he cares about is winning and making money. He cares nothing of furthering the sport. You should never visibly "stop-trying" in a professional/televised match. However to be fair, he is correct. If he would have 4 gated, nothing would have been said. Examples please? | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:39 Paladia wrote: Didn't hear anyone compaining with Stephano and BratOK both tried to throw a game at Dreamhack, that time it was actually worse as they did it to gain benefits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3nS8GmGQI Don't blame the players, it's a consequence of a badly designed tournament-system. Had they randomized brackets after group play, you wouldn't have the problem. To ask of the players to simply forget how the result of the match they're playing impacts their future tournament-life is to ask them to be not human. It's a failure of the tournament-format, not the players. | ||
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IhateBunkers
New Zealand78 Posts
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XIJABERWALKIX
United States27 Posts
In any sport, you have players you attach yourself to. Everyone has a player they love. They love them because they perform well, or they are cocky, or reserved, etc. However the reason you love them is the same, they play. Players like TO (NFL) and people who make drama can do so because football is big enough to support people who make drama. eSports is still in the beginning stages of popularity where there aren't exactly sponsors bidding for your market. We have to create the market. We have to show that when games don't matter we can still bring in the numbers. Football and every other big sport do it every season and that's why they're big. Because even when it doesn't matter people watch. That's how well make eSports bigger and better and more popular in the big picture. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2011 07:55 gulati wrote: Anybody giving shit to Naniwa for not playing a match which he had absolutely ZERO need to perform well in should shut the fuck up. Go look at the All Star games that were played when GSL hit its 1 year anniversary. Were any of THOSE games serious? Why did you not give shit to players then, and when HuK played "seriously" against NesTea and beat him, Koreans had the nerve to say that HuK was trying too hard...!? Seriously. Hypocritical as fuck. Naniwa, you did the right thing, and I would have honestly been upset to see you half-assing a game, which would somehow even out the so-called rivalry between you and NesTea. Actually this is probably the best evidence I've seen so far. 10Star post! Yeah i remember when people gave huk a shitstorm over being a try hard. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
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