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On December 16 2011 00:20 Luigy wrote:
I understand people's hatred and dissapointment. I do not agree with it tho.
Something i noticed which pissed me off, was the fact some people meant he shouldn't do something as stupid even tho they found the proberush funny. If they found it funny, what would be the problem?
I thought this was about being entertained?
Sure some might think: "Well i found it boring and wanted the full match".
Well i hate TvT, no matter who it is cause i'm not entertained. Should i be throwing tantrums cause they play super long games?
Now to the forfeiting part. Of course probe rushing seems like forfeiting. But had he done any kind of proxy play or anything, something i am sure Nestea would've stopped it, everyone would be happy, however the game would be just as boring wouldn't it?
just my 2 cents
This is the senitment that I fear. I assume you're not 14 and that you did pay for a ticket of some sort.
At first I thought it was only angry 14 year olds supporting Naniwa for "sticking it to the man." The more I read, the more mature people I see (though a minority) actually enjoyed the probe rush.
I guess it's a matter of taste. A famous musician once made a piece called "Rest," it had no notes and was full length rests.
Some people thought it was hilarious, some people thought it was witty, others wanted their money back and thought it was a giant scam.
It may be funny the first time to some, however, I think we can agree that this crap should not happen. Even people who enjoyed the probe rush probably do agree that people can not do this on televised/streamed/casted matches where time/money/effort were invested.
You might think it's funny for a guy who not play music, call the piece "Rest" and get a recital appearance. However, if a professional musician kept making appearances, not playing anything for a 4th piece, and getting paid for 4 scores instead of 3 (which also reflects in increased ticket price and wasted time), you'd be annoyed.
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On December 15 2011 17:45 thesums wrote:
I used to buy the GSL tickets every season, but had been busy lately so I did not buy recent ones. I cannot believe Naniwa would do this, I do not want to pay to watch a probe rush seriously. It is something I can perform just as good and fail. Now it makes me uncertain about buying the tickets, nor will I stay up until 4am watching a probe rush stream. Naniwa should not be banned or anything, but the Hate is valid. He should have thought of the game as practice, and winning a match against Nestea is something good to have in the record.
This makes no sense at all. Gom showed very strongly that a meaningless probe rush is not ok so no one will ever attempt something like this again, so you can be very sure you won't have to see that if you buy a ticket. That is in the unlikely event that Gom are stupid enough to have a format where meaningless matches are being played again. This was the first time they actually aired a meaningless match, so buy your ticket, you're safe.
Personally I don't see the point of meaningless matches being played, obviously they won't play their best strategies since they want to save them for when it really matters, so it will just be like a random ladder game. It's also extremely boring as the viewer when the winner has nothing to gain, at least that's how I see it, obviously koreans see it differently. If you're into that kind of thing just open up a stream, personally I prefer if they jump to the interesting matches instead.
Naniwa should have played the game, if you're in a foreign country you should try to understand that culture and respect their values. However I also find it surprising that the koreans can't see Naniwa's side of the coin, from all the twitter posts there seems to be a lot of hate for such a small (for a westerner) thing.
The worst of all was the way Gom handled the situation, very dodgy in my opinion. I'll probably mostly stick to the foreign tournaments in the future.
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My tl;dr version of this issue: Naniwa was wrong to throw the game so lamely, and the Koreans have overreacted to a ridiculous extent because he's a foreigner. Actually boycotting GOM TV over this? Stupid.
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There are few aspects, why foreigners are not being able compete with Koreans in long term. Naniwa with his last game just showed one of them. Dedication to winning, instead to be dedicated to game.
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After reading some unsubstantiated rationalization of Nani's behavior (most notably, who cares the game meant nothing or GOMTV format is all wrong even though, that format is used in just about every other sporting event) and it may have meant nothing to Nani because his ego has gotten the better of him since he has no one to blame but himself, but that's besides the point.
There is a big difference between an amateur and a professional. As a professional, you're paid to perform and who pays that money? Viewers, people like you and I and it's made possible through sponsors like GOMTV.
It doesn't matter whether you like Nani or not, we must clearly distinguish professional and unprofessional behavior so that this does not happen again. Childish and unprofessional incidents like these is what prevents big sponsors from investing in E-Sports and why formers sponsors chose to pull their sponsorship and why both WCG and Starcraft 1 pro-league got delayed. And this is the the only reason why GOMTV and the rest of the sponsors got pissed, corporations do not care about honors regardless of where they are located (don't base your understanding of foreign cultures on Hollywood movies.)
A professional athlete has a duty of loyalty to his/her fans and sponsors. Clearly, this was breached to both the fans and the sponsors, including GOMTV whose goal isn't to provide a platform for players for fun but to make a PROFIT, because Nani didn't even give us a half-hearted match, he gave us absolutely nothing for our time and money.
Do not confuse your support for Nani with rationalizing his unprofessional conduct because it will affect not just Nani but all of E-sports. Most importantly, you're not supporting Nani by agreeing with his false logic because he is nothing without his fans' support and he has to earn our support by showing us that despite his first 3 loses, he can still perform and compete with the best in the future.
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"Koreans need to stop making such a big deal out of everything"
The nerve?
They have a completely different culture, and as a result a different view on things like this. If you live in their country and play in their tournaments, you go by their rules. End of story.
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As much as I hate sports analogies it probably fits here. Its exactly like a football team playing a game after they know for sure they are not going to the playoffs and then just standing on field killing time to lose. That never happens even if they are down an impossible number of points. If esports wants to ever be taken more seriously it really needs to follow the real sports on something like this or it will forever stay niche.
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On December 18 2011 00:28 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
My tl;dr version of this issue: Naniwa was wrong to throw the game so lamely, and the Koreans have overreacted to a ridiculous extent because he's a foreigner. Actually boycotting GOM TV over this? Stupid.
Because he is a foreigner? If he was korean he couldn't even think about playing for months because that shit is taken so serious there his team would punish him before GOM would even have the chance, see coca.
The thing people don't seem to realise this is like matchfixing. Yea the reason was completely different but the result is the same, 1person lost on purpose.
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yea if he just did a 4 gate everything would've been ok. If nestea 6 pooled then what.
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On December 13 2011 23:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:55 laguu wrote:On December 13 2011 23:54 chrippa wrote:
I don't get why GOM made them play in the first place. IIRC in the up/down groups they always skipped the unneeded matches. This is what people should be talking about. Because fans would still want to watch the game....? Meaningless game or not for the tournament, it had a storyline to it. People would have been upset for sure if they didn't have them play the match for pride's sake.
They came to play a tournament, not some showmatches. What Nani did just shows how much more professional he is, since he's putting all his focus on the matches that actually mean something instead of putting focus to a completely pointless match.
Also really unprofessional of the organizers to not realise beforehand that there could be matches that didn't have any meaning to them and eliminate them from the tournament.
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On December 21 2011 09:47 Zheryn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:55 laguu wrote:On December 13 2011 23:54 chrippa wrote:
I don't get why GOM made them play in the first place. IIRC in the up/down groups they always skipped the unneeded matches. This is what people should be talking about. Because fans would still want to watch the game....? Meaningless game or not for the tournament, it had a storyline to it. People would have been upset for sure if they didn't have them play the match for pride's sake. They came to play a tournament, not some showmatches. What Nani did just shows how much more professional he is, since he's putting all his focus on the matches that actually mean something instead of putting focus to a completely pointless match. Also really unprofessional of the organizers to not realise beforehand that there could be matches that didn't have any meaning to them and eliminate them from the tournament.
Wait let me get this right.
You just called someone who threw a an offcial match in a porfessional tournament professional?
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On December 21 2011 09:19 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 00:28 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
My tl;dr version of this issue: Naniwa was wrong to throw the game so lamely, and the Koreans have overreacted to a ridiculous extent because he's a foreigner. Actually boycotting GOM TV over this? Stupid. Because he is a foreigner? If he was korean he couldn't even think about playing for months because that shit is taken so serious there his team would punish him before GOM would even have the chance, see coca. The thing people don't seem to realise this is like matchfixing. Yea the reason was completely different but the result is the same, 1person lost on purpose.
Slayers told Coca to step down, GomTV didn't do anything to CoCa at all, stop comparing these two situations because they are quite different since GOMTV didn't participate in telling CoCa to forefit.
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On December 21 2011 11:57 LanTAs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 09:19 Assirra wrote:On December 18 2011 00:28 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
My tl;dr version of this issue: Naniwa was wrong to throw the game so lamely, and the Koreans have overreacted to a ridiculous extent because he's a foreigner. Actually boycotting GOM TV over this? Stupid. Because he is a foreigner? If he was korean he couldn't even think about playing for months because that shit is taken so serious there his team would punish him before GOM would even have the chance, see coca. The thing people don't seem to realise this is like matchfixing. Yea the reason was completely different but the result is the same, 1person lost on purpose. Slayers told Coca to step down, GomTV didn't do anything to CoCa at all, stop comparing these two situations because they are quite different since GOMTV didn't participate in telling CoCa to forefit.
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Maybe gomtv expected slayers to take actions for his wrongdoing and felt that they didnt need to punish him.
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On December 21 2011 11:41 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 09:47 Zheryn wrote:On December 13 2011 23:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:55 laguu wrote:On December 13 2011 23:54 chrippa wrote:
I don't get why GOM made them play in the first place. IIRC in the up/down groups they always skipped the unneeded matches. This is what people should be talking about. Because fans would still want to watch the game....? Meaningless game or not for the tournament, it had a storyline to it. People would have been upset for sure if they didn't have them play the match for pride's sake. They came to play a tournament, not some showmatches. What Nani did just shows how much more professional he is, since he's putting all his focus on the matches that actually mean something instead of putting focus to a completely pointless match. Also really unprofessional of the organizers to not realise beforehand that there could be matches that didn't have any meaning to them and eliminate them from the tournament. Wait let me get this right. You just called someone who threw a an offcial match in a porfessional tournament professional?
sounds weird at first but a professional gamer should be someone who plays for a living. A professional of any kind wouldn't be expected to provide services for free because of their love/respect for their craft. He probably plays so much already that going through the motions is simply a chore if there's no incentive. So yeah I can see how people would be critical of the tournament's unprofessionalism in effectively wasting the time of the players.
I don't think people are right to complain that he's purely in it for the money either, there are other much more lucrative careers, obviously he has some love for the game to come as far as he did skillwise. As for selfishness and lack of consideration for the fans, complaints are fair but that's well within his rights. Personally I did laugh at the probe rush and we'd already seen smart entertaining games from him. Are we fans feeling more and more entitled? we came because we admired the skill on display but now we expect them to dance for us like clowns too.
N.B I'm new to the idea of pro esports and I'm going on the assumption that he only makes any money if he wins. If he's employed/paid to train and turn up by someone then yeah he was wrong to phone it in. If players aren't being paid to train and turn up to events then can they really be called professionals?
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EPT
