EPTEdit: Is it just me or does he not have sounds turned on?
Why Fin looks like one of the best in sc2 already - Page 32
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LanZ
35 Posts
Edit: Is it just me or does he not have sounds turned on? | ||
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
My point is : saying that ForGG, former A-teamer, who 3-0'ed Jaedong (?!), won an MSL title not so long ago and was endlessly better than MVP (most prominent example) on BW is going to win the next few GSLs is no overhype, it's quite a logical statement. I hope sc2-born players manage to prove me wrong (so that the game gains more credibility in Korea) but I'm afraid it simply won't happen. And I would argue that sc2's going to reveal itself only when top BW players switch (or homegrown talents develop, which is gonna take about 5years longer) and teach everyone what multitasking really is. This is my opinion and my opinion only. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
Again I'm just giving my opinion, my apologies if you find it flawed. | ||
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Mayd
Finland251 Posts
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Treziel
United Kingdom123 Posts
forgg is one of the fastest and most precise players I've ever seen Couldn't agree more. I never watched Brood War but when you watch this guys stream don't just look at the strats he is performing, look at the sheer underlying mechanics he has - I watch alot of players streams and this guy seems to be doing stuff twice as fast as most of the top foreign pro's and even faster than some of the other really good Koreans who stream. Very impressive. | ||
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
On December 09 2011 20:31 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote: I'm a starcraft 2 player and have only played brood war for a limited amount of time (enough to fully understand the game anyway). I'm no brood war fan and am a great defender of sc2's -still very volatile and criticizable- scene. However, you guys should understand that the relatively recent BW scene (from 08 up to right now) is the most ridiculously skilled thing that esport's ever known. And evidence of 'current' BW players' superiority is there already : MVP and Bomber weren't even A-teamers on BW (specially not Bomber) and are mechanically way ahead of everyone, Nestea was a freaking team player and has arguably acquired the best understanding of sc2's metagame yet, etc ... My point is : saying that ForGG, former A-teamer, who 3-0'ed Jaedong (?!), won an MSL title not so long ago and was endlessly better than MVP (most prominent example) on BW is going to win the next few GSLs is no overhype, it's quite a logical statement. I hope sc2-born players manage to prove me wrong (so that the game gains more credibility in Korea) but I'm afraid it simply won't happen. And I would argue that sc2's going to reveal itself only when top BW players switch (or homegrown talents develop, which is gonna take about 5years longer) and teach everyone what multitasking really is. This is my opinion and my opinion only. MVP was an A-teamer. He has improved a LOT in SC2, we can't say he wouldn't get better in BW too. Nestea is a special case IMO, he's not mechanically better than everyone but he wins because of his specifically tailored to the opponent build. And we have talent emerging directly into SC2. Look at leenock, jjakji and taeja for example. They are way too young to have played BW for long. One is a GSL champion, one is a GSL runner up, one is a very good player who I believe will still break through in the GSL. Another point you forgot to consider: SC2 is a very young game, and the metagame changes a lot. That's why slow players still compete in a high level, their strategies work even though they are slow because we have not explored everything the game has to offer. Now, I'm not saying the top A-teamers in BW are mechanical robots who can't think; Flash for example is not very fast but still is dominant as fuck. I'm just saying that while the competition in SC2, while not as nearly as fierce in BW, is still legit. I like to think we are going in a phase in SC2 similar to what BW experienced after oov's dominance. The play is macro oriented, but there are still strategies which will revolutionize match ups. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:03 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote: No, I really meant 'fully understand'. I did indeed exagerate though, MVP was an A-teamer, only really not amongst the best ones. as for the 'endlessly', it's called an hyperbole. Again I'm just giving my opinion, my apologies if you find it flawed. I followed BW for 7 years. For more than a year I watched basically every televised game. When TSL2 replay packs were released, I watched and analysed every single Idra replay (a ridiculous amount). I'm still not close to understanding BW on a high level. Like Sc2, but to a greater extent, BW's a game that you have to play at a decent level in order to appreciate its subtleties. I don't want to make a huge deal out of this, but saying you 'understand BW fully' after watching some progames is, well, very deluded. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:47 Shikyo wrote: Flash isn't very fast, what? He averages like 300 APM, I'd say that only like... Jaedong is faster. he isnt particulary fast compared to players like Hydra | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:47 Shikyo wrote: Flash isn't very fast, what? He averages like 300 APM, I'd say that only like... Jaedong is faster. Or Hyia , Baby , Hyuk , Bisu , Hydra and more. | ||
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lisward
Singapore959 Posts
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
Hence my calling sc2's scene "still volatile and criticizable". You're quite right about the young players (specially Leenock and Jjakji -who put up an unexpectedly awesome finals-) but I still feel that because of BW being mechanically way more demanding than SC2, players that switch not long after their prime on SCBW will find SC2 easy to master and will be able to put a lot more thoughts into toying with the metagame and being better than the rest (little like son goku training with weights, lame comparison i know). They also have, again thanks to BW, amazing crisis management -which is something that seriously lacks in SC2 atm- and overall just seem to me to be advantaged in a lot of ways compared to SC2's homegrowns. Anyway I believe one could argue both ways and still be right. Only time will tell and I honestly couldn't be more excited about SC2 following its own path. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:00 Itsmedudeman wrote: Well so far, it seems like forgg's mechanics are better than MVP's. He plays the game like brood war rather than sc2. Unfortunately, I've only gotten to see MVP play once, but forgg is one of the fastest and most precise players I've ever seen play the game, and it really shed the game in a new light for me. However, MVP is MVP and his strongest aspect is his decision making and strategy, and his multitasking is also really good, and probably around the same level as forgg's. No offense, I think there's something stuck on your monitor. I've been watching his stream alot today and say he's the fastest and most precise is just outright ridiculous These hype is getting out of hand. Can't wait for the sad reality that'll crush alot of people's hope comes January. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:56 iky43210 wrote: No offense, I think there's something stuck on your monitor. I've been watching his stream alot today and say he's the fastest and most precise is just outright ridiculous These hype is getting out of hand. Can't wait for the sad reality that'll crush alot of people's hope comes January. No man, you probably missclicked a different terran's stream then. Also found this quote LOL: On July 17 2008 18:45 IdrA wrote: Show nested quote + forgg's timing/macro really stand out because theyre a level above the rest of his game. (or they were, its caught up recently) flash is insanely good at everything so it doesnt seem as special with him. | ||
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Elldar
Sweden287 Posts
Will he get far next GSL? That depends, if you study his builds and timings enough you shouldn't lose to them, and I don't think his macro based play is on par with MVP or Hero. Against ForGG it seem like you should try to place safe and force macro games that is just my 2 cents. | ||
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OGKruemmel
Croatia270 Posts
Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July  | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On December 09 2011 22:51 bgx wrote: he isnt particulary fast compared to players like Hydra Have you ever seen Flash's speed in OSL? He may not be _the fastest_ in proleague, but when it comes down to huge tournaments, he has no trouble playing at 370-420 apm AVERAGE, especially when he's playing TvZ. In either case, it's not really relevant. His speed is obviously enough for him to perform well, so what's the issue here? | ||
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