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On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July 
They were all in GSL top 4 at one point or another, July was top2.
Just because they don't have 3 championships like Nestea does not mean they aren't capable at playing at a top level. They are unlikely to roflstomp to code S like JJakji, but they still do perform extremely well at top tournaments (Anaheim and Raleigh for Boxer/Nada come to mind)
SC2 is also a much more volatile game.
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I talked with Tarson and he is impressed by ForGG's mouse control ("look at his clicking, god daam" - tarson) 
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On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July
Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK.
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On December 09 2011 23:35 voy wrote:I talked with Tarson and he is impressed by ForGG's mouse control ("look at his clicking, god daam" - tarson)
IKR, its like a machine.
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This is the kind of prediction post. We'll only see if you are right.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On December 09 2011 23:37 Stiluz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK. Yep - they are waaaaaaay past their prime. Just check TLPD and watch some of the VODS of BW games from back in 2006-2008. The standard of games / the strategies employed are all sub-par to the games we are seeing today. Taek-Bang-Lee-Sang are on a totally different level than Nada, Boxer, July and the lot.
July's win-rate in his last few years of BW was pathetic. Nada maintained a mediocre standard near the end of his BW career.
That's why little known players like Mvp was called one of the "best" to switch from BW - not because he won an OSL, but because his skill level was the highest out of all the Ex-BW's to have switched.
Also SCII was ... volatile. It's still volatile and HoTS will rip apart the whole metagame once again sigh.
ogsMC, aka "MBCgame Suicide Toss" used to be known as "Iron" in BW. He was called "suicide toss" because he played extremely risky and acted ballsy. Point being, he lost most of his games lol
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I had so much fun watching Fin play TvP. Seriously, terrans seem to complain a lot about the matchup (admittedly tosses do the same), but look at what happens if someone actually uses ravens for timing pushes or uses vikings to land them in the mineral line and kill workers.
Imagine what happened to toss if Bisu switched. Or Jaedong. Matchups will change dramatically and we might again see JvZ. I'm so excited. 
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oGsFin is a good player! He played very well in his Code A games and did nearly no mistake. BUT you have to consider that he got very thankful opponents.
Sage was hyped highly a few months ago (yes it's been this long), but NEVER was able to live up to it.
Since Supertournament Polt never played convincingly in TvT. His Marine/Marauder Style depends heavily on not beeing pressured to hard in the early game and the opponent making mistakes in the mid/lategame. This just doesn't work on a really good TvTer. His bigcombat micro ist very good, but his macro lacks very much compared to other Code S/A Terrans. (I think I could name over a dozen terrans with much better macro than Polt has). It's just not enough anymore to be in the top class.
And July. He looked really good in March/April. But since then, he got beaten up and outclassed at some points by a LOT of players. Remember how anypro took him apart in GSL May. July never had a chance there, and still noone did expect anypro to dominate the whole SC2 scene. He was simply outclassed a lot of time by a lot of different styles in all matchups. Since April he only really shined often times, when he crushed greedy opponents with some kind of hyperagressive allin play. Can't even remember him outclassing an opponent in a longterm game.
Overall those opponents had a bigger name than actual skill, and that's what's basically feeding all the hype (despite him beeing a former Star League Champion). I would wait until he faces a player who is playing well right now, then we can rate his skill and his prospects very well.
Until then he showed great entertaining games. But we should leave it as that for now!
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On December 09 2011 14:25 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 14:23 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 09 2011 14:21 Zzoram wrote:
SC2 is mechanically easier than Broodwar but it's not easier to win, because everyone benefits from that advantage.
Strategically, there are more viable units and more options, and with the spare APM not spent on Broodwar-style macro, they can do some incredible micro and multiprong attacks. Except BW pros still showcase superior micro and army control despite the greater difficulty of BW. Oh, and SC2 is easier to win at the moment because the competition is much weaker. This is true at both the highest level and even at newbie level. Example being sair/reaver. Honestly there isn't anything in SC2 that comes even CLOSE to a well executed sair/reaver build. Purify-my-eyes build. Not executed at all these days. Is it because of the maps? Or tosses are too wuss these days. Admittedly, other builds like the gateway pressure builds seems to be "easier" to play, but man - sair/reaver when executed well, was catharsis.
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On December 09 2011 23:33 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 22:51 bgx wrote:On December 09 2011 22:47 Shikyo wrote:
Flash isn't very fast, what? He averages like 300 APM, I'd say that only like... Jaedong is faster. he isnt particulary fast compared to players like Hydra Have you ever seen Flash's speed in OSL? He may not be _the fastest_ in proleague, but when it comes down to huge tournaments, he has no trouble playing at 370-420 apm AVERAGE, especially when he's playing TvZ. In either case, it's not really relevant. His speed is obviously enough for him to perform well, so what's the issue here?
doesnt change the fact that there are faster players and not only jaedong like the guy said.
no one said its bad that flash is "slowler" or other guys are just faster.
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I remember an osl semi final with Hero raking over 600 apm average or something
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On December 09 2011 23:50 zdfgucker wrote:I had so much fun watching Fin play TvP. Seriously, terrans seem to complain a lot about the matchup (admittedly tosses do the same), but look at what happens if someone actually uses ravens for timing pushes or uses vikings to land them in the mineral line and kill workers. Imagine what happened to toss if Bisu switched. Or Jaedong. Matchups will change dramatically and we might again see JvZ. I'm so excited.
Only sad thing is I think Bisu said somewhere he would only play Protoss for "fun" in Sc2, I hope he either changes his mind or never switches.
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hydra playing sc2? I would love to see him switch. He'd really show how zerg race is supposed to be played
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On December 09 2011 23:49 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:37 Stiluz wrote:On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK. Yep - they are waaaaaaay past their prime. Just check TLPD and watch some of the VODS of BW games from back in 2006-2008. The standard of games / the strategies employed are all sub-par to the games we are seeing today. Taek-Bang-Lee-Sang are on a totally different level than Nada, Boxer, July and the lot. July's win-rate in his last few years of BW was pathetic. Nada maintained a mediocre standard near the end of his BW career. That's why little known players like Mvp was called one of the "best" to switch from BW - not because he won an OSL, but because his skill level was the highest out of all the Ex-BW's to have switched. Also SCII was ... volatile. It's still volatile and HoTS will rip apart the whole metagame once again sigh. ogsMC, aka "MBCgame Suicide Toss" used to be known as "Iron" in BW. He was called "suicide toss" because he played extremely risky and acted ballsy. Point being, he lost most of his games lol
NaDa, BoxeR, July, Nestea, MVP, MC, etc, all of these were BW pros. (and many more ofc)
However all the BW pros who now play SC2 were either not the most successful players in BW or they are waaaayyy past their golden age. ForGG is on paper probably the strongest BW player at the moment out of those, which clearly shows in SC2, and therefore should give him a fighting chance among the SC2 top players rather quickly.
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On December 09 2011 23:37 Stiluz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK.
These threads are like broken records sometimes.
Person 1: "HOW COME BOXER AND JULY AREN''T #1 HUH ? HUH ? YEAH I SHOWED YOU STUPID BW ELITISTS"
Person 2: "He won his last gold in bw like.. 2004. That's SEVEN years ago. After July won his golden mouse he was basically like "Fuck it, I don't give a shit". Who are the two most dominant players in GSL and did they have a background in BW?"
Person 3: " HOW COME BW LEGENDS AREN'T OWNING IT UP HUH??????"
-___-
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On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July
they are bad compared to the likes of Flash. But anyway even then, they are holding their own very well in sc2.
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I'm sure the OP knew this thread would eventually devolve into BW nostalgia, but a lot of people have pointed out that we already have Nada/Boxer/July do well in the SC2 scene but not really take home any major victories. July was probably closest with a GSL runner-up, right? One thread in particular I can remember that said when Flash/Bisu/Jae/etc come over from BW then the current SC2 programers (especially some of the foreigners) are gonna go by the wayside, hope that's not the case. But when you see fOrGG play as well as he is, it's hard not to believe the current BW stars will shine once they make the switch! (If anyone can find that thread and link it here, I would appreciate it ^ ^)
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On December 10 2011 00:04 jellyjello wrote:
hydra playing sc2? I would love to see him switch. He'd really show how zerg race is supposed to be played
Hydra vs Idra matches.
How the fun for casters.
Even more than Killer vs Killer.
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On December 10 2011 00:03 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:50 zdfgucker wrote:I had so much fun watching Fin play TvP. Seriously, terrans seem to complain a lot about the matchup (admittedly tosses do the same), but look at what happens if someone actually uses ravens for timing pushes or uses vikings to land them in the mineral line and kill workers. Imagine what happened to toss if Bisu switched. Or Jaedong. Matchups will change dramatically and we might again see JvZ. I'm so excited. Only sad thing is I think Bisu said somewhere he would only play Protoss for "fun" in Sc2, I hope he either changes his mind or never switches.
What Hero can do (<3 u heroo) i think Bisu can do better
So i dont think this is something to consider seriously.
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On December 09 2011 23:55 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 14:25 setzer wrote:On December 09 2011 14:23 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 09 2011 14:21 Zzoram wrote:
SC2 is mechanically easier than Broodwar but it's not easier to win, because everyone benefits from that advantage.
Strategically, there are more viable units and more options, and with the spare APM not spent on Broodwar-style macro, they can do some incredible micro and multiprong attacks. Except BW pros still showcase superior micro and army control despite the greater difficulty of BW. Oh, and SC2 is easier to win at the moment because the competition is much weaker. This is true at both the highest level and even at newbie level. Example being sair/reaver. Honestly there isn't anything in SC2 that comes even CLOSE to a well executed sair/reaver build. Purify-my-eyes build. Not executed at all these days. Is it because of the maps? Or tosses are too wuss these days. Admittedly, other builds like the gateway pressure builds seems to be "easier" to play, but man - sair/reaver when executed well, was catharsis.
sair reaver was cool especially if the zerg hold so well but didn't got the corsairs so disruption web ended up in the research line *-*.
Anyway there doesn't need to be much discussion if a good rts player will be good in sc2, thats almost a given, unless they think sc2 is easy mode and slack of. The only point in which a bw pro gamer could fail is adapting, as the next 4 years sc2 will receive heavy balance changes and there will be new strategies every tournament.
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EPT
