|
On November 30 2011 18:23 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 18:20 enCore- wrote:
I have played over 1500 games with terran in a high master area, it is by far the hardest race to micro properly. You lose with equal micro capabilities to your opponent outright most of the time. That's why I'm switching to zerg, and beating masters after a couple of games. But you do understand that this is just your opinion right? If you were random than your subjective opinion would have had weight. As it is you are just telling everyone else that your race is the hardest. And guess what, this is what everybody does. @Hider : I showed what both have to do before the battle and during. So you take out from the list the stalkers job against the viking because it's easy to do? It's a micro task that you have to do during a 5 second battle. And no, you don't just 1a your collosus because they might all target 2 marines that are on the side of the battle, and this way you gain lots of hits from the viking. Also, it is necessary to dodge the vikings during the battle because often times the bio will retreat out of range to micro against the zealots so the collosus become useless but you don't want to lose them to nothing. But if we are to oversimplify for the sake of our race: Terran: EMP and 1A the bio then stutter step till they gg.
I didn't take out anything. I stated that what toss players actualyl do is blinking stalkers in the direction of vikings, and then i stated that this is an easy mechanic in it self.
Edit: Yeh sorry just realized i actually took that part out. That was a mistake, my bad.
|
I'm top5 in my masters league and I play like 4h/w. I don't think terran is THAT hard, but I think we need to hurt zergs economy and have really good micro through early-, mid- and lategame. Otherwise we get rolled. I also think we need to force small battles through drops and and expansionsniping vs protosses. If we let them gather a very high gateway count and a nice deathball the game becomes too hard.
My point is, terran needs good mechanics and good game sense. Which race doesn't? Zerg can die if they misplace a queen and get all drones roasted, protoss can die if terran gets a nexus through dropping while the toss is about to attack.
There's one thing I miss though, I wish that tanks were viable in TvP. Thors too! feedback and immortals just cleans my poor attempts to include tank/thor in my bioballs when I have more expansions.
|
If a player liked idra had selected Terran, there would probably be better posted results for foreign Terrans, tbh.
Terran; however, does eem to require much more intense APM requirement to be fully effective.
|
On November 30 2011 18:52 JollYRoGeR wrote:
I'm top5 in my masters league and I play like 4h/w. I don't think terran is THAT hard, but I think we need to hurt zergs economy and have really good micro through early-, mid- and lategame. Otherwise we get rolled. I also think we need to force small battles through drops and and expansionsniping vs protosses. If we let them gather a very high gateway count and a nice deathball the game becomes too hard.
My point is, terran needs good mechanics and good game sense. Which race doesn't? Zerg can die if they misplace a queen and get all drones roasted, protoss can die if terran gets a nexus through dropping while the toss is about to attack.
There's one thing I miss though, I wish that tanks were viable in TvP. Thors too! feedback and immortals just cleans my poor attempts to include tank/thor in my bioballs when I have more expansions.
You dont play late game very often against any race right?
|
Think of how long toss has been fucked in that matchup. 6 months ? 7? 8? Ok, now after about a month of the patch, terrans aren't winning EVERY SINGLE THING placing 6 out of top 8, and the game is fucking broken. Where is the sense in this? Seriously lol.
|
On November 30 2011 18:41 corvaleur wrote:
Terran is the worst race to play in Diamond and Master.
I play Terran Master, Protoss/Zerg high Diamond and let me say that once you got into Platinum with Protoss/Zerg, it is just deathball a-click/muta/ling. Not a single shred of micro needed. Furthermore Terran can't keep up with a 20 Nexus or early mass lings. So if you survive the first 10 minutes, you win about 90% of your games. As a Master Terran, I only win if I play perfectly and the enemy does major mistakes. That's the reality in Diamond/Master. But probably I get flamed anyway since the Day9 bronzies out there think nobody has the right to criticize the imbalance currently existing in this game and guess what HotS will just introduce new imbalances, not fixing them.
Getting sick of these posts, just read what I bolded and tell me it's not irrational whining. All I see are sweeping generalisations about racial balance made by a masters terran who macros and a-moves with the other races at lower ranks (can be done with all races, terrans just have the arduous task of stimming their ball).
|
I don't understand this complaining about Terran. For a long time now, they have been over 50% on all non-mirror matchups, TvP being 57% in favor of T, and TvZ 53% in favor of T as of october, according to the stats on a thread that gathers all games in tournaments international and korean. Are you OP terran so spoiled that for you, not always being over 55% and having 6 on the top 10 is being UP ?
PS: some statistics 101 and science 101 courses would do you good. Including things like "of the top 10 foreigners only 2 are terrans" as if that had any utility at all is not the way to go to prove your point. People don't go (or shouldn't) go around looking for proof to prove a point. They get a point and try to disprove it. If it stands, then it might have a chance of becoming a fact and not a theory (/point).
|
On November 30 2011 18:56 Apolo wrote:
I don't understand this complaining about Terran. For a long time now, they have been over 50% on all non-mirror matchups, TvP being 57% in favor of T, and TvZ 53% in favor of T as of october, according to the stats on a thread that gathers all games in tournaments international and korean. Are you OP terran so spoiled that for you, not always being over 55% and having 6 on the top 10 is being UP ?
PS: some statistics 101 and science 101 courses would do you good. Including things like "of the top 10 foreigners only 2 are terrans" as if that had any utility at all is not the way to go to prove your point. People don't go (or shouldn't) go around looking for proof to prove a point. They get a point and try to disprove it. If it stands, then it might have a chance of becoming a fact and not a theory (/point).
An English 101 course would do you well.
We really can't make any statistical conclusions on balance unless blizzard decides to release current matchup win rates for each race as they have in the past.
|
I don't see the point of OP. All my friends in lower levels (which I consider bronze to gold) play terran and they are very happy with their race. They can play 1 base safe, they can turtle, they can harass with flying DTs, they can faceroll low level zerg with stimmed marines and marauders, and their macro mechanic is just forgiveable (oh, I have skipped mules for 1 min, no problem 4 in a row)
They don't need to micro the hell of it because the opponents aren't doing so also. Zerg are not injecting as proper as they should, they are not expanding, they are not flanking or microing banelings (thus all dying in a single thor) So they just stim and faceroll, with some pre emptive split in marines, or just 2 port banshee them.
Same for protoss, no good forcefields or not guardian shield just make MMM ball to tear thought the feared deathball in no time.
In fact I have always seen terran as the most rewarding race because you have so much stuff to do and even your lowly T1 unit has so much potential, that you can achieve great things if you master them.
With zerg is more about game sense, scouting and droning/building army dichotomy. It is rewarding on its own, but harder for the casual gamer. Also zerg doesn't have much room for micro, since it is by desing a swarm race, where positioning and raw numbers are the key, not microing glass cannons.
The main problem I see about terrans is they were dominating the scene since Beta, but now protoss and zerg have found ways to counter the early pushes and all in strategies, and can progress into the late game, while the terran still are playing in the old fashion MMM style as in the beta. But don't worry, someday a new Boxer will come, he (or she) will rework the terran BO and unit composition and we will all shit bricks, once again.
PS: Jeez, what a wall of text...
|
On November 30 2011 18:59 Eviscerador wrote:
I don't see the point of OP. All my friends in lower levels (which I consider bronze to gold) play terran and they are very happy with their race. They can play 1 base safe, they can turtle, they can harass with flying DTs, they can faceroll low level zerg with stimmed marines and marauders, and their macro mechanic is just forgiveable (oh, I have skipped mules for 1 min, no problem 4 in a row)
They don't need to micro the hell of it because the opponents aren't doing so also. Zerg are not injecting as proper as they should, they are not expanding, they are not flanking or microing banelings (thus all dying in a single thor) So they just stim and faceroll, with some pre emptive split in marines, or just 2 port banshee them.
Same for protoss, no good forcefields or not guardian shield just make MMM ball to tear thought the feared deathball in no time.
In fact I have always seen terran as the most rewarding race because you have so much stuff to do and even your lowly T1 unit has so much potential, that you can achieve great things if you master them.
With zerg is more about game sense, scouting and droning/building army dichotomy. It is rewarding on its own, but harder for the casual gamer. Also zerg doesn't have much room for micro, since it is by desing a swarm race, where positioning and raw numbers are the key, not microing glass cannons.
The main problem I see about terrans is they were dominating the scene since Beta, but now protoss and zerg have found ways to counter the early pushes and all in strategies, and can progress into the late game, while the terran still are playing in the old fashion MMM style as in the beta. But don't worry, someday a new Boxer will come, he (or she) will rework the terran BO and unit composition and we will all shit bricks, once again.
PS: Jeez, what a wall of text...
I think the problem that I see most people have with Terran are the problems that Blizzard has focused on trying to correct with new HotS units. I, myself, love to have the ability to turtle and macro as a Terran player.
|
I completely agree with the OPs points. This is simply a design flaw by bizzard, Nerf terran and it gets harder at lower levels, Buff it and it gets OP at.. say Bomber-MVP level..
|
|
|
People need to learn to use every unit before making statements like this. By this I do not mean know how to properly micro the terran units, I mean play every race at a competitive level. There is no 1a move race in the game once you get to competitive levels of play. By your argument Muta's have a fundamental problem because us in the low leagues cannot micro them as well as July. If you are having problems with Terran try a new race, if you don't want to try a new race, just muscle through the problem.
|
Hey guys I've updated OP post a bit to hopefully clear up some of the points I was trying to make.
|
On November 30 2011 18:55 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 18:41 corvaleur wrote:
Terran is the worst race to play in Diamond and Master.
I play Terran Master, Protoss/Zerg high Diamond and let me say that once you got into Platinum with Protoss/Zerg, it is just deathball a-click/muta/ling. Not a single shred of micro needed. Furthermore Terran can't keep up with a 20 Nexus or early mass lings. So if you survive the first 10 minutes, you win about 90% of your games. As a Master Terran, I only win if I play perfectly and the enemy does major mistakes. That's the reality in Diamond/Master. But probably I get flamed anyway since the Day9 bronzies out there think nobody has the right to criticize the imbalance currently existing in this game and guess what HotS will just introduce new imbalances, not fixing them. Getting sick of these posts, just read what I bolded and tell me it's not irrational whining. All I see are sweeping generalisations about racial balance made by a masters terran who macros and a-moves with the other races at lower ranks (can be done with all races, terrans just have the arduous task of stimming their ball).
Typical. I don't care about this shit anymore. I said that ladder play is imbalanced since I started in Silver and continued it to say until I got into Master and would even say it if I got into Grandmaster.
I just don't care to proof anything since I don't have access to the BNet statistics.
I'm getting, hopefully, promoted with my Zerg account to Master soon, just playing ~10 games a week since 3 weeks. And that's about 25% of the (hard) work which required Terran. No experience with Zerg before. So suit yourself and stay in your illusionary balanced world, while I abuse the imbalance.
|
On November 30 2011 13:18 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 13:14 SpunXtain wrote:On November 30 2011 13:12 Endymion wrote:
u gotta sk8
furthermore, when is 30/11/2011... Today? For everyone in the world who isn't American and puts Day before month, as they recognize Month/Day/Year makes no sense. This always confuses the hell out of me. It's off topic, but I need to rant here. 0 degrees Celsius is melting point. 100 degrees Celsius is boiling point. Fahrenheit does its own thing. Small -> medium -> large, day -> month -> year. How does month -> day -> year make any sense at all? Gram -> kilogram -> tonne. 1, 1000, 1000000. Ounce -> pound -> stone. 1, 16, 224. The world doesn't use American measurements because they make no logical sense. So don't discriminate on others, Americans, for not using your flawed system. /rant
Just for note, its YYYY.MM.DD
|
The fundamental problem with terran is that terran is the only 'finished' race.
It's been pretty clear for a while that terran was the race they spent the most time on in developement, by far, and as a result the race is twice as "deep" as the other races.
Every race should have the wide unit choices of terran along and units with the same potential for micro.
|
On November 30 2011 19:36 Ighox wrote:
The fundamental problem with terran is that terran is the only 'finished' race.
It's been pretty clear for a while that terran was the race they spent the most time on in developement, by far, and as a result the race is twice as "deep" as the other races.
Every race should have the wide unit choices of terran along and units with the same potential for micro.
I don't think so, if terran is already finished, then why do they add new units and remove some others in HotS?
I don't think every race should have wide unit choices and units with the same potential for micro. Do you imagine that zerlings had the same potential for micro than marines? I mean, you can build 80 of them ezpz in 20 secs. Think about building 40 marines in 20 secs every production cycle...
|
|
|
On November 30 2011 19:36 Ighox wrote:
The fundamental problem with terran is that terran is the only 'finished' race.
It's been pretty clear for a while that terran was the race they spent the most time on in developement, by far, and as a result the race is twice as "deep" as the other races.
Every race should have the wide unit choices of terran along and units with the same potential for micro.
The other aspect of this is, which is not often reviewed, that "unfinished" can swing in both directions: something is particular strong or particular weak.
The new HotS units are a joke, Blizzard did not invest any kind of work in this. If one had played Red Alert, which Bowder was involved in, they'd know that the "new" units are merely copies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
