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Forgot Overlord? Np, stockpile some larva. Forgot Pylon? Np, Warpgate cooldown resets anyway + Supply Depots take the most time to build out of the three. -_-
That's actually not how macro works, getting supply blocked messes you up badly with every race. And besides..Terran has the supply depot drop, your argument sucks that Terran has a disadvantage in this area.
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Terrans, hear me out. If you will continue with this kind of excuses for your low league performance you will not improve.
Before all the terran nerfs the forum was raging with irrelevant arguments for why terran does not need nerfs : Terran players are just better. Well, after the patch, we can all safely say they are not, and now are cought in old strategies that used to work with old patches and are losing. But we see some of them still dominating and it's the ones that have strong mechanics and good game sense. The players that used to abuse units and strategies now get dominated, but players like PuMa, MVP, MMA, etc that have really good mechanics and game sense still dominate. So the key is to actually know how to play the race instead of abusing it's moments of OP.
So since this boat has sailed the new generation of bronze terrans is cought in another excuse, the insane high micro required for them to do in order to win with terran and this is another bullshit.
First of all I think people are confusing Micro with Multitasking because terran units don't require that high micro as people suggest but the terran race does require a lot of multitasking.
Let's see some micro situations in tvp:
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Early game:
8 Marines vs 2 Stalkers
Terran POV: CTR+A in the direction of the kiting Stalkers and hope to hit them. From time to time target the injured Stalker.
Protoss POV: Kite the Marines, if possible target the injured one and must place the Stalker with higher shield in the back to absorb hits from Marines.
If both micro perfectly Protoss always wins and no stalker lost.
Of none of them micro, Terran always wins.
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Mid Game:
Zealots + Archon + Sentry + Stalkers vs
Marines + Marauders + Medivacs
In mid game protoss has less units than terran that is shaping his bio ball, and it's essential for the protoss to carefully chose the fights and use almost perfect Force Fields and positioning. Usually the mid games battles are won by the terran, and most games end here, and this is because the protoss failed to do all the work that is necessary in order for him to win the battle. At high level perfect Force Fields trap the Bio and the Zealots + Archons clean it up. Terran has to elevate his units behind the Force Fields and target the Archons. The illusion of micro at this point is the Stutter Step the Bio does, and this the easies micro to perform. We see no spread, no smar elevations, just dodging.
At this level I think the micro required is just slightly ahead for the terran but he can make more mistakes than the protoss that can miss one Force Field and lose.
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Late Game:
Death Ball vs Bio Ball
Collosus + Immortals + HTs + Archons + Stalkers + Zealots + Sentries + Warpprism
Marines + Maraders + Ghosts + Vikings + Medivacs.
Terran POV: Use the vikings to target Collosus without taking hits from stalkers. Position the Ghosts and try to effectively EMP the important units. Snipe vulnerable HTs. Move the Bio Ball to bate Storms and doge them. Steam and attack + storm dodge.
Protoss POV: Spread the army in a thin line. Position the units to have maximum efficiency. Dodge the Vikings with the Collosus and blink the stalkers + target Vikings. Try to Feedback/Storm before the fight begins. Attack, target with the Collosus the front line of Marines, Dodge the injured one from Vikings, Blink Stalkers to kill Vikings. Force Field the back of the Bio Ball. Drop HTs from Prism and Storm the army.
Perfect Micro for both players the Protoss wins most of the time.
No Micro and terran is on equal chances. Note, I am saying this because I consider the Death Ball vs the Bio Ball a safe win for protoss late game because the Bio is weak. This is why terrans need to shape their things up because this style of play is getting old.
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Anyway, TL;DR Stop making excuses, high level terrans win with skill and terran does not require more micro than protoss, and that is by a long shot.
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On November 30 2011 16:52 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:46 emc wrote:
well, is the answer to make terran easier?
If terran is harder at lower levels then so be it, that's true in BW too isn't it?
So don't make terran easier, don't dumb down the race just to make them less micro intensive and let's not go over the other races in how they are "easier". I certainly don't want Terran to be made easier. The micro aspect of Terran is why I play the race, I love the challenge. What needs to happen is, Blizzard needs to make the Toss race a harder race to play. Period.If I wanted an easy race to play, I'd be playing Protoss. If Blizzard could just somehow make the toss units weaker and require more micro to be that much effective, I'd be one happy man. And yes, I know this will never happen..... only one can dream.
so now it's a thread whining about protoss? seriously...
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On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race.
Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe?
Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring....
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On November 30 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race. Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe? Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring....
not any more... if the maps allow it PvP becomes pretty fun to watch.
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On November 30 2011 16:50 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:16 dmnum wrote:
I think zerg is going to get a lot more micro intensive in HOTS. The viper and the swarm host will add quite a bit of variety to the race. By far the most idiotic post i've seen all day. The Viper's "Get OVER HERE" ability is not micro, that is world of warcraft spell mashing. Pressing spell battles are not fun to watch, microing units is fun to watch, and very impressive when you are doing it at a high level, adding gimmicky spells like that does not add micro. Idiots these days don't even know what micro is.
UGHH not to de-rail, but you're THAT guy aren't you. That guy who started in WoW not even in Vanilla who missed the "good old days" where to just maybe get good gear it required you play a game in excess of 20 hours a week on a set raiding schedule on top of any time that you wanted to spend on anything other than raid progression, forget the hell of 40 man raiding where you were lucky to have 25 good players in group of 40, let alone 40/40 raid members on at one time, and at the end of the day not realizing that as the expansions progressed, due to hard modes the game got significantly harder due to mechanics in heroic modes. I never understood the whole more time = harder game view.
- ex vanilla through cata top 200 guild raider.
sry just had to post that.
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On November 30 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 14:14 ZorBa.G wrote:
OK, so to summarise everything up.
Terran has the highest skill cap due to micro capabilities. In order to reach a level of micro that is effective whilst being on par with your macro, you need to put in at least 30 games p/day (Code S Terrans).
If you cannot play such a large amount of games and put in that much practice, Protoss and Zerg is much more rewarding in the short term.
So from now on when I see those threads that state "Which race should I choose?" I will ask such questions first;
- How much time can you put into the game?
30 games p/day? Give Terran a go, they will be the most rewarding in the next 3 years when your micro is perfect. Also keep in mind when spending that 200 - 300 apm on micro, you still need to be on par with your macro.
25 games p/day? You like massing shit and setting up ambushes and prefer macro games? Play Zerg, still a very challenging yet rewarding race to play. However, you will reap the benifits of your hard work within about 2 - 3 years. This largely depends on how your game sense is as well. Very much a reactionary race.
Can only play 1 - 5 games per day and only interested in getting to masters within the next couple of months? Play Protoss. This is just pure balance whine, such bullshit, if you play significantly more games, you'll be the better player, regardless of race.
I'm actually considering switching to Protoss since I can't spend 24/7 trying to perfect my micro with Terran. I'm not even joking here.
Yes, at the upmost highest levels of SC2, Terran is a force to be reckoned with. But I don't see why Blizzard needs to set limitations on those who aren't pros. If anything, blizzard needs to stop nerfing Terran and look at the god damn units Protoss has. DO SOMETHING WITH THE MICRO MECHANICS OF PROTOSS. Make them weaker and make it so they require micro to be effective as well.
The more Blizzard nerfs Terran, the more they put this race out of reach for those players in the lower leagues.
As for Zerg, I don't really see much wrong with their race. I'm not going to elaborate on it, but I respect the skill involved to playing that race. This sums up what is pretty much a Terran circle-jerk thread based on a terrible OP. Yep, protoss doesnt require micro to be effective -.- Wow, foreign terrans aren't doing so well so let's use it as an excuse to whine about how our race got a little bit harder to play. I particularly love all the terrans here clinging to beastqt's words like they're gospel. Most pros think their own race is underpowered and will post like that. Terrans have had it so easy for so long and been nerfed the least of any race despite maintainng 50%+ in all mu's since release. You're just not as good as you think you are, you don't have to be a korean terran to own with the race and you're kidding yourself if you think Toss or Zerg is significantly easier in standard play. Terran has great tools and is the most resilient vs cheese/allins (repair, bunkers, mules). Terran is nowhere near out of reach of low level players, just get used to being at the level you should've been at had blizzard designed terran better in the first place. On November 30 2011 15:52 Active.815 wrote:
But terran is fundamentally more difficult due to the necessity of having better micro then your opponent. No, you're just bad. Controlling blink stalker sentry templar effectively whilst spacing your army, focussing down vikings, feedbacking ghosts...yeah no micro there. You build bunkers, toss relies on ff's. The argument is just stupid. Both races get stronger with better micro and the player with better control generally wins. Just for the record. I have no problem in the T v Z MU, I feel both races have different mechanics which make playing these races just as hard as each other. Protoss really is just a fucking horrible joke. Stop defending your pathetic bullshit currently broken cheap ass race. Yeah those forcefields must be so god damn hard. Yeah, point given Protoss has to micro, but it's really just the ABC's compared to what Terran has to do. Your obviously just another Protoss jerk off who gets a stiff back once someone says the way you need to control your army is baby steps. I mean comon' really? Forcefields are hard? Casting Storm is hard? You really need to come play Terran for a couple of months..... get a load of this; - Stutter step (sounds easy huh, do it while macroing and trying to keep up with the split second tech switches Protoss does throughout a game) - Emp, oh yeah it's so easy to emp a Protoss. But try and emp the units that matter such as sentries, HT, Archons. Gotta get past those 3/3 lots first. - When you can't get those high profile targets with emp, your next option is snipe. Still need to get past those Zealots.... - Making sure you always engage Protoss out in the open. Sounds easy huh, go try it. - Making sure your army is in a concave before engagement. Point given, it's not hard... but adds to the rest of the shit you need to do. - Focus down Collossi with Vikings - In the middle of all this, your also trying manage a drop elsewhere. Now do this while trying to keep in top of your macro at the same time. But you know whats the most pathetic bullshit? The fact that if Terran screws up 1 aspect of what I have written above, they are screwed. It's pretty obvious ABC Protoss micro is certainly more forgiving then Terrans. Also, the fact if a Protoss doesn't feel like microing a game against Terran, they can just whip up a 3/3 Chargelot/Archon composition, 1 A and go back to macro whilst the Terran player needs to race around his keyboard like a fkn idiot. But please, what I'm interested in hearing is.... What micro is involved with 3/3 Chargelot/Archon? Ears are all open 
Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....seriously...this is the biggest QQ I have seen in forever...
Get real man. Every race could make a laundry list of scenarios that are difficult for them to do or hard to do while macroing.
And the fact is, there is no race less forgiving than Protoss. Don't tell me because you miss one of those things you insta-lose and Toss isn't the same? Miss an early game FF - game over, miss feedbacks - game over, clump your templar and get emp - game over / get bottlenecked so your zealots cant attack - game over, miss with storms or ffs - game over, attack into a planetary - game over? I mean come on, bro...every race has their weaknesses and strengths. If you really think Terran is so easy then come over to Toss and see what the problems are at a high level for Toss and if you get to GM and the game is too easy for you because you are soooo goooooood from playing Terran, then come talk to me.
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Forgot Overlord? Np, stockpile some larva. Forgot Pylon? Np, Warpgate cooldown resets anyway + Supply Depots take the most time to build out of the three. -_-
I fail to see how toss isn't affected. It's not like the time lost of the supply block will give them extra units to warp in..? I don't get it. I would say that it probably affects them the most, because when they realize it it's putting all unit producing structures out of play at once, a terran usually have streaming units..?
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On November 30 2011 16:57 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:50 deadmau wrote:On November 30 2011 16:16 dmnum wrote:
I think zerg is going to get a lot more micro intensive in HOTS. The viper and the swarm host will add quite a bit of variety to the race. By far the most idiotic post i've seen all day. The Viper's "Get OVER HERE" ability is not micro, that is world of warcraft spell mashing. Pressing spell battles are not fun to watch, microing units is fun to watch, and very impressive when you are doing it at a high level, adding gimmicky spells like that does not add micro. Idiots these days don't even know what micro is. UGHH not to de-rail, but you're THAT guy aren't you. That guy who started in WoW not even in Vanilla who missed the "good old days" where to just maybe get good gear it required you play a game in excess of 20 hours a week on a set raiding schedule on top of any time that you wanted to spend on anything other than raid progression, forget the hell of 40 man raiding where you were lucky to have 25 good players in group of 40, let alone 40/40 raid members on at one time, and at the end of the day not realizing that as the expansions progressed, due to hard modes the game got significantly harder due to mechanics in heroic modes. I never understood the whole more time = harder game view. - ex vanilla through cata top 200 guild raider. sry just had to post that.
Who cares about your WoW crap? WoW is a stupid time-sink for lemmings...go play a game where you can get killed by someone not programmed by a computer and then tell me what is harder.
Ultima Online for life.
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On November 30 2011 16:57 Ace.Xile wrote:
UGHH not to de-rail, but you're THAT guy aren't you. That guy who started in WoW not even in Vanilla who missed the "good old days" where to just maybe get good gear it required you play a game in excess of 20 hours a week on a set raiding schedule on top of any time that you wanted to spend on anything other than raid progression, forget the hell of 40 man raiding where you were lucky to have 25 good players in group of 40, let alone 40/40 raid members on at one time, and at the end of the day not realizing that as the expansions progressed, due to hard modes the game got significantly harder due to mechanics in heroic modes. I never understood the whole more time = harder game view.
- ex vanilla through cata top 200 guild raider.
sry just had to post that.
I'm not arguing more time = harder game, but catering to noobs like you that whine because your deficiencies is the problem.
edit: sry just had to post that
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On November 30 2011 16:59 Reborn58 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 14:14 ZorBa.G wrote:
OK, so to summarise everything up.
Terran has the highest skill cap due to micro capabilities. In order to reach a level of micro that is effective whilst being on par with your macro, you need to put in at least 30 games p/day (Code S Terrans).
If you cannot play such a large amount of games and put in that much practice, Protoss and Zerg is much more rewarding in the short term.
So from now on when I see those threads that state "Which race should I choose?" I will ask such questions first;
- How much time can you put into the game?
30 games p/day? Give Terran a go, they will be the most rewarding in the next 3 years when your micro is perfect. Also keep in mind when spending that 200 - 300 apm on micro, you still need to be on par with your macro.
25 games p/day? You like massing shit and setting up ambushes and prefer macro games? Play Zerg, still a very challenging yet rewarding race to play. However, you will reap the benifits of your hard work within about 2 - 3 years. This largely depends on how your game sense is as well. Very much a reactionary race.
Can only play 1 - 5 games per day and only interested in getting to masters within the next couple of months? Play Protoss. This is just pure balance whine, such bullshit, if you play significantly more games, you'll be the better player, regardless of race.
I'm actually considering switching to Protoss since I can't spend 24/7 trying to perfect my micro with Terran. I'm not even joking here.
Yes, at the upmost highest levels of SC2, Terran is a force to be reckoned with. But I don't see why Blizzard needs to set limitations on those who aren't pros. If anything, blizzard needs to stop nerfing Terran and look at the god damn units Protoss has. DO SOMETHING WITH THE MICRO MECHANICS OF PROTOSS. Make them weaker and make it so they require micro to be effective as well.
The more Blizzard nerfs Terran, the more they put this race out of reach for those players in the lower leagues.
As for Zerg, I don't really see much wrong with their race. I'm not going to elaborate on it, but I respect the skill involved to playing that race. This sums up what is pretty much a Terran circle-jerk thread based on a terrible OP. Yep, protoss doesnt require micro to be effective -.- Wow, foreign terrans aren't doing so well so let's use it as an excuse to whine about how our race got a little bit harder to play. I particularly love all the terrans here clinging to beastqt's words like they're gospel. Most pros think their own race is underpowered and will post like that. Terrans have had it so easy for so long and been nerfed the least of any race despite maintainng 50%+ in all mu's since release. You're just not as good as you think you are, you don't have to be a korean terran to own with the race and you're kidding yourself if you think Toss or Zerg is significantly easier in standard play. Terran has great tools and is the most resilient vs cheese/allins (repair, bunkers, mules). Terran is nowhere near out of reach of low level players, just get used to being at the level you should've been at had blizzard designed terran better in the first place. On November 30 2011 15:52 Active.815 wrote:
But terran is fundamentally more difficult due to the necessity of having better micro then your opponent. No, you're just bad. Controlling blink stalker sentry templar effectively whilst spacing your army, focussing down vikings, feedbacking ghosts...yeah no micro there. You build bunkers, toss relies on ff's. The argument is just stupid. Both races get stronger with better micro and the player with better control generally wins. Just for the record. I have no problem in the T v Z MU, I feel both races have different mechanics which make playing these races just as hard as each other. Protoss really is just a fucking horrible joke. Stop defending your pathetic bullshit currently broken cheap ass race. Yeah those forcefields must be so god damn hard. Yeah, point given Protoss has to micro, but it's really just the ABC's compared to what Terran has to do. Your obviously just another Protoss jerk off who gets a stiff back once someone says the way you need to control your army is baby steps. I mean comon' really? Forcefields are hard? Casting Storm is hard? You really need to come play Terran for a couple of months..... get a load of this; - Stutter step (sounds easy huh, do it while macroing and trying to keep up with the split second tech switches Protoss does throughout a game) - Emp, oh yeah it's so easy to emp a Protoss. But try and emp the units that matter such as sentries, HT, Archons. Gotta get past those 3/3 lots first. - When you can't get those high profile targets with emp, your next option is snipe. Still need to get past those Zealots.... - Making sure you always engage Protoss out in the open. Sounds easy huh, go try it. - Making sure your army is in a concave before engagement. Point given, it's not hard... but adds to the rest of the shit you need to do. - Focus down Collossi with Vikings - In the middle of all this, your also trying manage a drop elsewhere. Now do this while trying to keep in top of your macro at the same time. But you know whats the most pathetic bullshit? The fact that if Terran screws up 1 aspect of what I have written above, they are screwed. It's pretty obvious ABC Protoss micro is certainly more forgiving then Terrans. Also, the fact if a Protoss doesn't feel like microing a game against Terran, they can just whip up a 3/3 Chargelot/Archon composition, 1 A and go back to macro whilst the Terran player needs to race around his keyboard like a fkn idiot. But please, what I'm interested in hearing is.... What micro is involved with 3/3 Chargelot/Archon? Ears are all open Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....seriously...this is the biggest QQ I have seen in forever... Get real man. Every race could make a laundry list of scenarios that are difficult for them to do or hard to do while macroing. And the fact is, there is no race less forgiving than Protoss. Don't tell me because you miss one of those things you insta-lose and Toss isn't the same? Miss an early game FF - game over, miss feedbacks - game over, clump your templar and get emp - game over / get bottlenecked so your zealots cant attack - game over, miss with storms or ffs - game over, attack into a planetary - game over? I mean come on, bro...every race has their weaknesses and strengths. If you really think Terran is so easy then come over to Toss and see what the problems are at a high level for Toss and if you get to GM and the game is too easy for you because you are soooo goooooood from playing Terran, then come talk to me.
Do you mind answering my question in that post? I like how its been avoided so far.
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On November 30 2011 13:18 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 13:14 SpunXtain wrote:On November 30 2011 13:12 Endymion wrote:
u gotta sk8
furthermore, when is 30/11/2011... Today? For everyone in the world who isn't American and puts Day before month, as they recognize Month/Day/Year makes no sense. This always confuses the hell out of me. It's off topic, but I need to rant here. 0 degrees Celsius is melting point. 100 degrees Celsius is boiling point. Fahrenheit does its own thing. Small -> medium -> large, day -> month -> year. How does month -> day -> year make any sense at all? Gram -> kilogram -> tonne. 1, 1000, 1000000. Ounce -> pound -> stone. 1, 16, 224. The world doesn't use American measurements because they make no logical sense. So don't discriminate on others, Americans, for not using your flawed system. /rant
the fuck kind of measurement is a stone?
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On November 30 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race. Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe? Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring....
No, you're an idiot. PvP is just poorly designed. There are very few viable unit comp's, lack of scouting between probe and obs makes it far more of a coinflip, its metagame was held back by four gate for ages and there are still no safe fe builds. It's got nothing to do with the 'skills' of the players.
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On November 30 2011 17:04 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:59 Reborn58 wrote:On November 30 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 14:14 ZorBa.G wrote:
OK, so to summarise everything up.
Terran has the highest skill cap due to micro capabilities. In order to reach a level of micro that is effective whilst being on par with your macro, you need to put in at least 30 games p/day (Code S Terrans).
If you cannot play such a large amount of games and put in that much practice, Protoss and Zerg is much more rewarding in the short term.
So from now on when I see those threads that state "Which race should I choose?" I will ask such questions first;
- How much time can you put into the game?
30 games p/day? Give Terran a go, they will be the most rewarding in the next 3 years when your micro is perfect. Also keep in mind when spending that 200 - 300 apm on micro, you still need to be on par with your macro.
25 games p/day? You like massing shit and setting up ambushes and prefer macro games? Play Zerg, still a very challenging yet rewarding race to play. However, you will reap the benifits of your hard work within about 2 - 3 years. This largely depends on how your game sense is as well. Very much a reactionary race.
Can only play 1 - 5 games per day and only interested in getting to masters within the next couple of months? Play Protoss. This is just pure balance whine, such bullshit, if you play significantly more games, you'll be the better player, regardless of race.
I'm actually considering switching to Protoss since I can't spend 24/7 trying to perfect my micro with Terran. I'm not even joking here.
Yes, at the upmost highest levels of SC2, Terran is a force to be reckoned with. But I don't see why Blizzard needs to set limitations on those who aren't pros. If anything, blizzard needs to stop nerfing Terran and look at the god damn units Protoss has. DO SOMETHING WITH THE MICRO MECHANICS OF PROTOSS. Make them weaker and make it so they require micro to be effective as well.
The more Blizzard nerfs Terran, the more they put this race out of reach for those players in the lower leagues.
As for Zerg, I don't really see much wrong with their race. I'm not going to elaborate on it, but I respect the skill involved to playing that race. This sums up what is pretty much a Terran circle-jerk thread based on a terrible OP. Yep, protoss doesnt require micro to be effective -.- Wow, foreign terrans aren't doing so well so let's use it as an excuse to whine about how our race got a little bit harder to play. I particularly love all the terrans here clinging to beastqt's words like they're gospel. Most pros think their own race is underpowered and will post like that. Terrans have had it so easy for so long and been nerfed the least of any race despite maintainng 50%+ in all mu's since release. You're just not as good as you think you are, you don't have to be a korean terran to own with the race and you're kidding yourself if you think Toss or Zerg is significantly easier in standard play. Terran has great tools and is the most resilient vs cheese/allins (repair, bunkers, mules). Terran is nowhere near out of reach of low level players, just get used to being at the level you should've been at had blizzard designed terran better in the first place. On November 30 2011 15:52 Active.815 wrote:
But terran is fundamentally more difficult due to the necessity of having better micro then your opponent. No, you're just bad. Controlling blink stalker sentry templar effectively whilst spacing your army, focussing down vikings, feedbacking ghosts...yeah no micro there. You build bunkers, toss relies on ff's. The argument is just stupid. Both races get stronger with better micro and the player with better control generally wins. Just for the record. I have no problem in the T v Z MU, I feel both races have different mechanics which make playing these races just as hard as each other. Protoss really is just a fucking horrible joke. Stop defending your pathetic bullshit currently broken cheap ass race. Yeah those forcefields must be so god damn hard. Yeah, point given Protoss has to micro, but it's really just the ABC's compared to what Terran has to do. Your obviously just another Protoss jerk off who gets a stiff back once someone says the way you need to control your army is baby steps. I mean comon' really? Forcefields are hard? Casting Storm is hard? You really need to come play Terran for a couple of months..... get a load of this; - Stutter step (sounds easy huh, do it while macroing and trying to keep up with the split second tech switches Protoss does throughout a game) - Emp, oh yeah it's so easy to emp a Protoss. But try and emp the units that matter such as sentries, HT, Archons. Gotta get past those 3/3 lots first. - When you can't get those high profile targets with emp, your next option is snipe. Still need to get past those Zealots.... - Making sure you always engage Protoss out in the open. Sounds easy huh, go try it. - Making sure your army is in a concave before engagement. Point given, it's not hard... but adds to the rest of the shit you need to do. - Focus down Collossi with Vikings - In the middle of all this, your also trying manage a drop elsewhere. Now do this while trying to keep in top of your macro at the same time. But you know whats the most pathetic bullshit? The fact that if Terran screws up 1 aspect of what I have written above, they are screwed. It's pretty obvious ABC Protoss micro is certainly more forgiving then Terrans. Also, the fact if a Protoss doesn't feel like microing a game against Terran, they can just whip up a 3/3 Chargelot/Archon composition, 1 A and go back to macro whilst the Terran player needs to race around his keyboard like a fkn idiot. But please, what I'm interested in hearing is.... What micro is involved with 3/3 Chargelot/Archon? Ears are all open Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....seriously...this is the biggest QQ I have seen in forever... Get real man. Every race could make a laundry list of scenarios that are difficult for them to do or hard to do while macroing. And the fact is, there is no race less forgiving than Protoss. Don't tell me because you miss one of those things you insta-lose and Toss isn't the same? Miss an early game FF - game over, miss feedbacks - game over, clump your templar and get emp - game over / get bottlenecked so your zealots cant attack - game over, miss with storms or ffs - game over, attack into a planetary - game over? I mean come on, bro...every race has their weaknesses and strengths. If you really think Terran is so easy then come over to Toss and see what the problems are at a high level for Toss and if you get to GM and the game is too easy for you because you are soooo goooooood from playing Terran, then come talk to me. Do you mind answering my question in that post? I like how its been avoided so far.
Check my post dude.
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On November 30 2011 17:04 MethodSC wrote:
the fuck kind of measurement is a stone?
Don't know but he is surely stoned....
What a sorry excuse for a "discussion post"
As i said earlier it's another one of this "Hey guys dont' worry i'm not whining about racial imbalance, just stating SOLID (laugh) facts, so i can start a discussion (laugh). I swear this isn't one of those posts"
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On November 30 2011 17:04 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:59 Reborn58 wrote:On November 30 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 14:14 ZorBa.G wrote:
OK, so to summarise everything up.
Terran has the highest skill cap due to micro capabilities. In order to reach a level of micro that is effective whilst being on par with your macro, you need to put in at least 30 games p/day (Code S Terrans).
If you cannot play such a large amount of games and put in that much practice, Protoss and Zerg is much more rewarding in the short term.
So from now on when I see those threads that state "Which race should I choose?" I will ask such questions first;
- How much time can you put into the game?
30 games p/day? Give Terran a go, they will be the most rewarding in the next 3 years when your micro is perfect. Also keep in mind when spending that 200 - 300 apm on micro, you still need to be on par with your macro.
25 games p/day? You like massing shit and setting up ambushes and prefer macro games? Play Zerg, still a very challenging yet rewarding race to play. However, you will reap the benifits of your hard work within about 2 - 3 years. This largely depends on how your game sense is as well. Very much a reactionary race.
Can only play 1 - 5 games per day and only interested in getting to masters within the next couple of months? Play Protoss. This is just pure balance whine, such bullshit, if you play significantly more games, you'll be the better player, regardless of race.
I'm actually considering switching to Protoss since I can't spend 24/7 trying to perfect my micro with Terran. I'm not even joking here.
Yes, at the upmost highest levels of SC2, Terran is a force to be reckoned with. But I don't see why Blizzard needs to set limitations on those who aren't pros. If anything, blizzard needs to stop nerfing Terran and look at the god damn units Protoss has. DO SOMETHING WITH THE MICRO MECHANICS OF PROTOSS. Make them weaker and make it so they require micro to be effective as well.
The more Blizzard nerfs Terran, the more they put this race out of reach for those players in the lower leagues.
As for Zerg, I don't really see much wrong with their race. I'm not going to elaborate on it, but I respect the skill involved to playing that race. This sums up what is pretty much a Terran circle-jerk thread based on a terrible OP. Yep, protoss doesnt require micro to be effective -.- Wow, foreign terrans aren't doing so well so let's use it as an excuse to whine about how our race got a little bit harder to play. I particularly love all the terrans here clinging to beastqt's words like they're gospel. Most pros think their own race is underpowered and will post like that. Terrans have had it so easy for so long and been nerfed the least of any race despite maintainng 50%+ in all mu's since release. You're just not as good as you think you are, you don't have to be a korean terran to own with the race and you're kidding yourself if you think Toss or Zerg is significantly easier in standard play. Terran has great tools and is the most resilient vs cheese/allins (repair, bunkers, mules). Terran is nowhere near out of reach of low level players, just get used to being at the level you should've been at had blizzard designed terran better in the first place. On November 30 2011 15:52 Active.815 wrote:
But terran is fundamentally more difficult due to the necessity of having better micro then your opponent. No, you're just bad. Controlling blink stalker sentry templar effectively whilst spacing your army, focussing down vikings, feedbacking ghosts...yeah no micro there. You build bunkers, toss relies on ff's. The argument is just stupid. Both races get stronger with better micro and the player with better control generally wins. Just for the record. I have no problem in the T v Z MU, I feel both races have different mechanics which make playing these races just as hard as each other. Protoss really is just a fucking horrible joke. Stop defending your pathetic bullshit currently broken cheap ass race. Yeah those forcefields must be so god damn hard. Yeah, point given Protoss has to micro, but it's really just the ABC's compared to what Terran has to do. Your obviously just another Protoss jerk off who gets a stiff back once someone says the way you need to control your army is baby steps. I mean comon' really? Forcefields are hard? Casting Storm is hard? You really need to come play Terran for a couple of months..... get a load of this; - Stutter step (sounds easy huh, do it while macroing and trying to keep up with the split second tech switches Protoss does throughout a game) - Emp, oh yeah it's so easy to emp a Protoss. But try and emp the units that matter such as sentries, HT, Archons. Gotta get past those 3/3 lots first. - When you can't get those high profile targets with emp, your next option is snipe. Still need to get past those Zealots.... - Making sure you always engage Protoss out in the open. Sounds easy huh, go try it. - Making sure your army is in a concave before engagement. Point given, it's not hard... but adds to the rest of the shit you need to do. - Focus down Collossi with Vikings - In the middle of all this, your also trying manage a drop elsewhere. Now do this while trying to keep in top of your macro at the same time. But you know whats the most pathetic bullshit? The fact that if Terran screws up 1 aspect of what I have written above, they are screwed. It's pretty obvious ABC Protoss micro is certainly more forgiving then Terrans. Also, the fact if a Protoss doesn't feel like microing a game against Terran, they can just whip up a 3/3 Chargelot/Archon composition, 1 A and go back to macro whilst the Terran player needs to race around his keyboard like a fkn idiot. But please, what I'm interested in hearing is.... What micro is involved with 3/3 Chargelot/Archon? Ears are all open Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....seriously...this is the biggest QQ I have seen in forever... Get real man. Every race could make a laundry list of scenarios that are difficult for them to do or hard to do while macroing. And the fact is, there is no race less forgiving than Protoss. Don't tell me because you miss one of those things you insta-lose and Toss isn't the same? Miss an early game FF - game over, miss feedbacks - game over, clump your templar and get emp - game over / get bottlenecked so your zealots cant attack - game over, miss with storms or ffs - game over, attack into a planetary - game over? I mean come on, bro...every race has their weaknesses and strengths. If you really think Terran is so easy then come over to Toss and see what the problems are at a high level for Toss and if you get to GM and the game is too easy for you because you are soooo goooooood from playing Terran, then come talk to me. Do you mind answering my question in that post? I like how its been avoided so far.
Sure, how do you micro chargelot archon? Is that the question?
You first have to either FF perfectly or you get kited to death. Otherwise you have to engage into a dead-end to trap the units. You also have to stay alive to that point...
How about this, tell me how hard it really is to macro a 3-rax all in? Or micro a 1-1-1? or pull off 2 port banshee? Come on, seriously....you're setting up straw-men here with your questions.
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On November 30 2011 17:04 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race. Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe? Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring.... No, you're an idiot. PvP is just poorly designed. There are very few viable unit comp's, lack of scouting between probe and obs makes it far more of a coinflip, its metagame was held back by four gate for ages and there are still no safe fe builds. It's got nothing to do with the 'skills' of the players.
So if P v P is poorly designed..... what does that mean for Protoss in general? My arguments aren't targeted to Protoss players directly, it's more targeted towards Blizzard. If you want to play a race my 6 year old brother can, go for it... but don't try and tell me it's a hard race to play out.
And yeah, P v P has been held back by the 4-gate for ages..... I don't think there is anyone I know that can't do a 4-gate.
@reborn58, thanks mate you just proved my point. Dem forcefields must be hard huh?
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On November 30 2011 17:02 deadmau wrote:
I'm not arguing more time = harder game, but catering to noobs that whine about their own deficiencies is the actual problem.
Then there is no argument for that concept in this discussion. Blizzard saw that some abilities in some races were mildly overpowered, take for example EMP, which was very arguably considered OP by the majority of pro players and even some terrans simply because it hard countered most caster units undeniably in the game especially in the case of protoss and created an issue because it was essentially an instant psi storm coupled with feed back all in one with better range (smaller radius i believe though) on a unit that could insta cloak and to top it all off can attack without energy (although not very strong) unlike the other similar caster units. For the 98% of players people are arguing that this affects, while it may, it's such a small affect that it doesn't matter. Gold players aren't concerned about the reduced radius of EMP and i'd be surprised if bronze and some silver players were even aware that hellions could be upgraded. These nerfs don't become issues because the games typically come down to either a. who is allining or b. who can macro better.
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On November 30 2011 17:09 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 17:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race. Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe? Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring.... No, you're an idiot. PvP is just poorly designed. There are very few viable unit comp's, lack of scouting between probe and obs makes it far more of a coinflip, its metagame was held back by four gate for ages and there are still no safe fe builds. It's got nothing to do with the 'skills' of the players. So if P v P is poorly designed..... what does that mean for Protoss in general? My arguments aren't targeted to Protoss players directly, it's more targeted towards Blizzard. If you want to play a race my 6 year old brother can, go for it... but don't try and tell me it's a hard race to play out. And yeah, P v P has been held back by the 4-gate for ages..... I don't think there is anyone I know that can't do a 4-gate.
Please just shut up...
My 6 year old dog could play Terran, does it mean he can play it at a high level?
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On November 30 2011 17:09 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 17:04 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 30 2011 16:50 Scarecrow wrote:
I mained as toss for almost a year, switched to terran and maintained SEA masters comfortably. It's not the highest level but I feel all the races are similarly difficult to win consistently with. Stop crying, it's the player not the race. Ever wondered why everyone prefers to watch a T v T game over a P v P game? Just maybe because of the sick skill that required in T v T maybe? Not sure if many people realise, but thats why watching P v P is so god damn boring.... No, you're an idiot. PvP is just poorly designed. There are very few viable unit comp's, lack of scouting between probe and obs makes it far more of a coinflip, its metagame was held back by four gate for ages and there are still no safe fe builds. It's got nothing to do with the 'skills' of the players. So if P v P is poorly designed..... what does that mean for Protoss in general? My arguments aren't targeted to Protoss players directly, it's more targeted towards Blizzard. If you want to play a race my 6 year old brother can, go for it... but don't try and tell me it's a hard race to play out. And yeah, P v P has been held back by the 4-gate for ages..... I don't think there is anyone I know that can't do a 4-gate.
Smurf as Protoss, reach Masters, and come back to talk. It's easy for any one of us to say that terran, zerg, protoss is weak, but that's just stupid.
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EPT
