[D] Fundamental problems with Terran - Page 7

On November 30 2011 16:23 Scarecrow wrote:
You'd think master/gm randomers would cry every time they get T because they have to micro twice as hard -.-

funny how they don't.

On November 30 2011 16:04 RavenLoud wrote:

I really don't see the argument that the game being harder to balance because it takes more practice to master a race. BW proved that it doesn't need to have races that play the same at all levels to have a fairly balanced game, it is still considered to be a much better balanced game than SC2 in its current state.

This thread is just saying that terran takes more skill to play at the highest level, then it tries to undermine that there is something off with have more units that takes advantage from more micro. It is just a fancy of saying it shouldn't be too hard to play so it can be balanced for both the casuals and the pros. There is no strawman.

This racial hubris really has to stop. Seems like every terran believes that the other races don't need to have mechanics or game knowledge as good as they do to beat them. I just can't take anyone who post like that seriously.

"Those races don't benefit as much from it" lol exactly what I meant.

Yes, the races play differently, who would have thought.
Granted in WoL terran has less boring 1a units like zealots, immortals, colossus, roach, corrupters, void rays, etc, but it's not a good argument to blame the game when you still have plenty of room to improve. Sometimes I wish Bliz would go back to when they would only patched once a year so people would focus on the game instead of bitching about how their race takes more skill.

EDIT: I still find it extremely ironic that the race with the most forgiving macro mechanic would complain that they aren't noob friendly enough. (Forgot supply depot? Supply drop!. Forgot to mule, has 2 orbitals with 180 energy? No prob drop 6 of em on a gold base. Ah crap, didn't get detection. Scan.)

On November 30 2011 16:04 Scarecrow wrote:

This sums up what is pretty much a Terran circle-jerk thread based on a terrible OP. Yep, protoss doesnt require micro to be effective -.- Wow, foreign terrans aren't doing so well so let's use it as an excuse to whine about how our race got a little bit harder to play. I particularly love all the terrans here clinging to beastqt's words like they're gospel. Most pros think their own race is underpowered and will post like that. Terrans have had it so easy for so long and been nerfed the least of any race despite maintainng 50%+ in all mu's since release. You're just not as good as you think you are, you don't have to be a korean terran to own with the race and you're kidding yourself if you think Toss or Zerg is significantly easier in standard play. Terran has great tools and is the most resilient vs cheese/allins (repair, bunkers, mules). Terran is nowhere near out of reach of low level players, just get used to being at the level you should've been at had blizzard designed terran better in the first place.


No, you're just bad. Controlling blink stalker sentry templar effectively whilst spacing your army, focussing down vikings, feedbacking ghosts...yeah no micro there. You build bunkers, toss relies on ff's. The argument is just stupid. Both races get stronger with better micro and the player with better control generally wins.

On November 30 2011 14:18 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Problem is just in game design, terran as race is made harder to micro than other 2 races and when one unit is micro'd near perfect it seems as "overpowered" and then blizzard nerfs it since they dont know how to balance it out.

Examples are marines vs zerglings vs zealots or stalkers vs marauders vs roaches. Marines and stalkers become much powerful with very good micro, while other 4 unit types dont need to be micro'd very good on low level to be successful.

Another example is mutas - void rays - banshees, while void rays are "OP" on low levels, mutas and cloakless banshees probably "suck" because they require much more micro to use their full potential.

Like someone mentioned already, terran as a race is made micro oriented while other 2 races are played different (not saying they dont require micro on top level but on low level its much harder for terran players to win their games) which results in terran % of players globally decreasing each season while zerg race players % has been increasing (read this on TL).

All this nerfing to terran race, even tho it was needed on the GSL code S level, it is killing the lower leagues and players who are playing the game casually would rather switch races than spend more time on the game itself, because...they play game for fun and fun = winning most of the time.

Not sure if Polt said it 1-2 GSL's ago that once patch hits "all the bad terrans will drop out from GSL because of this" + Show Spoiler +.

My personal opinion on the whole balance thing - yes koreans were dominating GSL but if the race was overpowered terrans would dominate foreigner tournaments as well - which wasnt the case. Blizzard is balancing the game based on GSL obviously and even if slight nerf was needed I think blizzard overdid it and that we will see zergs and protoss dominate much more very soon.

And for those who will probably be "go play other race if u think yours is shit" - you got it wrong, terran is very good race, but reaching top level or even low level play is much more time consuming than other 2 races if you want to win, which is reason why people complain on terran race atm.

On November 30 2011 16:28 Neelia wrote:
Forgot Overlord? Np, stockpile some larva. Forgot Pylon? Np, Warpgate cooldown resets anyway + Supply Depots take the most time to build out of the three. -_-

On November 30 2011 16:17 Ace.Xile wrote:


I find it hard to believe terran is getting shafted because korea can do better, ghost needed to be nerfed period. They dam near hard countered the very things that were supposed to counter them, because of their range and any competent terran could snipe infestors and hts long before they even got a chance, and the only alternative otherwise was to warp prism hts in and out (if people wanna whine about micro).

On November 30 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:


Just for the record. I have no problem in the T v Z MU, I feel both races have different mechanics which make playing these races just as hard as each other.

Protoss really is just a fucking horrible joke. Stop defending your pathetic bullshit currently broken cheap ass race.

Yeah those forcefields must be so god damn hard. Yeah, point given Protoss has to micro, but it's really just the ABC's compared to what Terran has to do. Your obviously just another Protoss jerk off who gets a stiff back once someone says the way you need to control your army is baby steps.

I mean comon' really? Forcefields are hard? Casting Storm is hard?

You really need to come play Terran for a couple of months..... get a load of this;

- Stutter step (sounds easy huh, do it while macroing and trying to keep up with the split second tech switches Protoss does throughout a game)

- Emp, oh yeah it's so easy to emp a Protoss. But try and emp the units that matter such as sentries, HT, Archons. Gotta get past those 3/3 lots first.

- When you can't get those high profile targets with emp, your next option is snipe. Still need to get past those Zealots....

- Making sure you always engage Protoss out in the open. Sounds easy huh, go try it.

- Making sure your army is in a concave before engagement. Point given, it's not hard... but adds to the rest of the shit you need to do.

- Focus down Collossi with Vikings

- In the middle of all this, your also trying manage a drop elsewhere.

Now do this while trying to keep in top of your macro at the same time.

But you know whats the most pathetic bullshit? The fact that if Terran screws up 1 aspect of what I have written above, they are screwed. It's pretty obvious ABC Protoss micro is certainly more forgiving then Terrans.

Also, the fact if a Protoss doesn't feel like microing a game against Terran, they can just whip up a 3/3 Chargelot/Archon composition, 1 A and go back to macro whilst the Terran player needs to race around his keyboard like a fkn idiot.

But please, what I'm interested in hearing is.... What micro is involved with 3/3 Chargelot/Archon? Ears are all open

On November 30 2011 16:33 Active.815 wrote:


Anti-caster unit counters casters. Wow!

HuK has been done storm drops before against MVP and they were good. Infestors have burrow, so unless a lucky scan goes down zerg will almost always get spells off before they can be neutralized. And again, when you say 'competent' it's implying high masters/gm-low masters and diamond will not be that on top of the game.

The terran race as a whole is being killed by the nerfs that are meant to effect the top ~5% because what they can do exceeds the capabilities of the other two races in a relatively similarly skilled players' hands.

On November 30 2011 16:03 Temple wrote:


The thing that I do not understand is.. why would you want to help out the lower level players? I understand that it is in blizzards best interest to help them for the money, but the community.. really? It makes no sense, the more that low level players want to have balance the dumber the game is going to look from a spectator watching the pro's perspective.

On November 30 2011 16:19 ZenithM wrote:


The swarm host sure looks like a unit that you must micro frantically.

On November 30 2011 16:16 dmnum wrote:

I think zerg is going to get a lot more micro intensive in HOTS. The viper and the swarm host will add quite a bit of variety to the race.

On November 30 2011 16:46 emc wrote:
well, is the answer to make terran easier?

If terran is harder at lower levels then so be it, that's true in BW too isn't it?

So don't make terran easier, don't dumb down the race just to make them less micro intensive and let's not go over the other races in how they are "easier".

On November 30 2011 16:43 Ace.Xile wrote:



What is your point in this. Ask a platinum zerg to macro, 9/10 they will fail compared to what a masters or even a diamond can do, it's the same thing for terran. I'm not sure how protoss fits in. But there's a reason that at least on some of the ladders, zerg is pretty much non-existent for quit some time on the ladder (until you hit a certain league) and if you do see them it's some sort of really bad all in. These nerfs are NOT affecting the 98% of players that they make a difference too, in such a way that is greatly significant. Does nerfing blue flame hellion damage affect bronze games? Sure on a very small level, but you know what would also affect it? Teaching that terran to build 2 rax rush and kill them. I just find it borderline nuts that people can claim that these nerfs are radically affecting low diamond - down because they aren't. Micro isn't even a thought until you hit gold really if i remember, and then from there it doesn't even become big until diamond it seems. Macros the same. You don't need good micro to even get into plat, you can do so with 1 build period. People are claiming as terran is so micro intensive that you can't get into diamond + without it and straight up i feel like it's a pretty well known fact these days that you can hit masters almost entirely off of good macro with just a smidgen of micro.

On November 30 2011 16:50 deadmau wrote:


By far the most idiotic post i've seen all day. The Viper's "Get OVER HERE" ability is not micro, that is world of warcraft spell mashing. Pressing spell battles are not fun to watch, microing units is fun to watch, and very impressive when you are doing it at a high level, adding gimmicky spells like that does not add micro. Idiots these days don't even know what micro is.