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We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka |
On November 28 2011 20:23 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No". So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house. ME? No im not against teamhouses. NO im NOT against EG's house. plz read. There is alot to indicate that the ogs house makes their players better. Not when it comes to EG. Now obv you can never say for sure. Both jinro and huk became very good after living at the ogs house. No eg player has showing noticably better results since moving to the house. Maybe idra.
How has the oGs house indicated it makes their players better than the EG house? How do we know what those players would have done if they lived somewhere else? The same question you ask about the EG players.
No one truly knows. But we do know that players have improved since they moved into the houses. Your argument doesn't really make sense.
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On November 28 2011 20:28 Vaapad wrote:
Is Puma-2 Losira-0 really an upset?
Anyhow, great tournament, great coverage!
it mught be an "u[set" but nowhere CLOSE to a big upset
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As for the teamhouse thing; I think it's obvious that players can and will improve if they are in a structured environment where they have a minimal amount of practice (say, 8 hours) they have to put in every day. However, a concern that I believe was raised in a certain other article by tree.hugger is that there is no coach at the EG team house.
I understand that Alex has been helping IdrA recently in particular with his mindset, but that's not really his job. It should be the job of a coach, which is an integral part of the korean BW house structure. Hell, even SC2 houses in Korea have Coaches as a mainstay of their houses. Coaches are a patriarchal figure for the players that help them with every aspect of their play and mindset.
Imagine SlayerS without BoxeR. Imagine SKT1 without BoxeR. Imagine TSL without Coach Lee, etc. etc.
I think another reason why some people are raising doubts of the EG team house is because they expect too much to early. Don't expect Axslav and Strife to instantly fulfill 100% of their potential just because they're in a structured team house. It takes time, and everybody there probably improves at their own, unique pace.
I'm not saying that the EG house is like a perfect recreation of the korean BW house and we just haven't seen it yet (it would be arrogant of me to claim otherwise) but give them some time.
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On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol  Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole.
ok here goes ---->
On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real.
bolded part is semi-bashing, because it's just not true. TLO played in GSL ro64 Opens, Jinro was 2x Code S semifinalist, and while on Liquid Huk got into Code S and became, well, Huk. Ret and Haypro didnt do so well, but i'd say Liquid/oGs partnership that incontrol calls out payed for itself. at a time, they still did better in korea than EG guys who went over there, including idra (that jungle basin!)
On November 28 2011 19:41 iNcontroL wrote:
Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf.
first bolded part... Sheth and Ret did great in last two MLG's, Huk was bought out, Haypro took out Nestea but ok didnt do so well elsewhere, and Tyler showed signs of life against Choya even tho nobody expects anything from him, while TLO attended MLG Orlando literally injured for christ sake. Hero is as Liquid as Puma is EG, so im not even gonna count those guys results into this. what did EG guys do? and yes i know that incontrol fucked himself over with good performance at the start of the year and would actually get less shit if he didnt play in Group Stages against best in the world, but what about other EG guys? except Idra, i really dont see how they performed better than TLAF'Liquid guys, when we exclude their koreans. and im not talkin only about MLG, but other tournies, where Liquid guys like Ret and Sheth had great success.
second bolded part... if he thinks people see EG as Huk and PuMa then that's maybe where he's wrong. same goes for Liquid and Hero, soon Zenio. in that context, paragraph that was posted about EG results can be brought to disucssion. even FXOpen posted something along that lines. i agree with what incontrol is saying about houses and how they should never be questioned, because its not fair (they were the ones to take the risk so why would they get bad rep for doing foreigners a favour in the long run). but, he shouldnt bash Liquid guys in the process...
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On November 28 2011 20:37 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. ok here goes ----> Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. bolded part is semi-bashing, because it's just not true. TLO played in GSL ro64 Opens, Jinro was 2x Code S semifinalist, and while on Liquid Huk got into Code S and became, well, Huk. Ret and Haypro didnt do so well, but i'd say Liquid/oGs partnership that incontrol calls out payed for itself. at a time, they still did better in korea than EG guys who went over there, including idra. Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:41 iNcontroL wrote:
Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf. first bolded part... Sheth and Ret did great in last two MLG's, Huk was bought out, Haypro took out Nestea but ok didnt do so well elsewhere, and Tyler showed signs of life against Choya, while TLO attended MLG Orlando literally injured for christ sake. Hero is as Liquid as Puma is, so im not even gonna count those guys results into this. what did EG guys do? and yes i know that incontrol fucked himself over with good performance at the start of the year and would actually get less shit if he didnt play in Group Stages against best in the world, but what about other EG guys? except Idra, i really dont see how they performed better than TLAF'Liquid guys, when we exclude their koreans. and im not talkin only about MLG, but other tournies, where Liquid guys like Ret and Sheth had great success. second bolded part... if he think people see EG as Huk and PuMa then that's maybe where he's wrong. same goes for Liquid and Hero, soon Zenio. in that context, paragraph that was posted about EG results can be brought to disucssion. even FXOpen posted something along that lines. i agree with what incontrol is saying about houses and how they should never be questioned, because its not fair (they were the ones to take the risk so why would they get bad rep for doing foreigners a favour in the long run). but, he shouldnt bash Liquid guys in the process...
He was being facetious.
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On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole.
Mmm, if you scroll down a bit, I thought it says
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
?
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On November 28 2011 20:30 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:23 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 20:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No". So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house. ME? No im not against teamhouses. NO im NOT against EG's house. plz read. There is alot to indicate that the ogs house makes their players better. Not when it comes to EG. Now obv you can never say for sure. Both jinro and huk became very good after living at the ogs house. No eg player has showing noticably better results since moving to the house. Maybe idra. How has the oGs house indicated it makes their players better than the EG house? How do we know what those players would have done if they lived somewhere else? The same question you ask about the EG players. No one truly knows. But we do know that players have improved since they moved into the houses. Your argument doesn't really make sense.
My argument? How are you using "my" argument against me by claiming the same thing but it doesn't adhere to your argument???
Im saying that we can't truly know how the teamhouse has affected these players skill level. You are saying the same, so what's the problem?
When we discuss the teamhouses we have to look past that. Ogs house has made alot of players succesful, for example huk and jinro has done great AFTER joining the house. No one on EG has started doing really good after joining the house. See there? See the comparison? Nothing indicates that the EG house is making their players better, you can't say that about the ogs house.
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On November 28 2011 20:48 Ktk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. Mmm, if you scroll down a bit, I thought it says Show nested quote +The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff. ?
Users = forum users. Articles that are written by TL STAFF, edited by TL STAFF, and posted on the front page by TL STAFF, is representative of TL.
On November 28 2011 20:49 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:23 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 20:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No". So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house. ME? No im not against teamhouses. NO im NOT against EG's house. plz read. There is alot to indicate that the ogs house makes their players better. Not when it comes to EG. Now obv you can never say for sure. Both jinro and huk became very good after living at the ogs house. No eg player has showing noticably better results since moving to the house. Maybe idra. How has the oGs house indicated it makes their players better than the EG house? How do we know what those players would have done if they lived somewhere else? The same question you ask about the EG players. No one truly knows. But we do know that players have improved since they moved into the houses. Your argument doesn't really make sense. My argument? How are you using "my" argument against me by claiming the same thing but it doesn't adhere to your argument??? Im saying that we can't truly know how the teamhouse has affected these players skill level. You are saying the same, so what's the problem? When we discuss the teamhouses we have to look past that. Ogs house has made alot of players succesful, for example huk and jinro has done great AFTER joining the house. No one on EG has started doing really good after joining the house. See there? See the comparison? Nothing indicates that the EG house is making their players better, you can't say that about the ogs house.
I can actually say the opposite. Jinro is actually getting worse as he stays in the OGS/TL house. He posted results before, but now he's nowhere to be found. Because of that we should just close down the OGS/TL house right? That's the ignorant, offbase, kneejerk conclusion that the writer made concerning the EG house.
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On November 28 2011 20:48 Ktk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. Mmm, if you scroll down a bit, I thought it says Show nested quote +The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff. ?
Yes that's a bit of contradiction ^^. But we could argue that TL writters aren't "users"
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On November 28 2011 20:16 Bullet wrote:oh and Are Mvp and Nestea Still the Best Players in the World? + Show Spoiler +mvp showing he definitely is in game 1 vs leenock, haha. ^_^
+ Show Spoiler + Also game 2, loss or not look at how much damage he did in his slow death and how close he came to winning. Even if he loses this series it's hard to deny just how much dominance he can still exert.
Edit: aside from a fail depot lowering in the last game that was a great series between the two showcasing that both are amazing players and that MVP is is certainly a contender for title of best player..
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On November 28 2011 20:48 Ktk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. Mmm, if you scroll down a bit, I thought it says Show nested quote +The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff. ?
This wasn't a user. It was a TL writer posted by a TL admin. This is TL staff material, not a user like you or me.
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On November 28 2011 20:52 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:48 Ktk wrote:On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. Mmm, if you scroll down a bit, I thought it says The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff. ? This wasn't a user. It was a TL writer posted by a TL admin. This is TL staff material, not a user like you or me.
jmbthirteen is absoultely right, TL users =/= TL writers/staff/admins. it is representative of TL.net opinions.
which many people tend to agree with, even though they perhaps think it's still a dick move. so better to get it out in the open, or? i don't think even the writer knew what was better... after GSL expect 100 pages shitstorm from crazy fanboys, tho 
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On November 28 2011 20:49 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:23 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 20:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No". So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house. ME? No im not against teamhouses. NO im NOT against EG's house. plz read. There is alot to indicate that the ogs house makes their players better. Not when it comes to EG. Now obv you can never say for sure. Both jinro and huk became very good after living at the ogs house. No eg player has showing noticably better results since moving to the house. Maybe idra. How has the oGs house indicated it makes their players better than the EG house? How do we know what those players would have done if they lived somewhere else? The same question you ask about the EG players. No one truly knows. But we do know that players have improved since they moved into the houses. Your argument doesn't really make sense. My argument? How are you using "my" argument against me by claiming the same thing but it doesn't adhere to your argument??? Im saying that we can't truly know how the teamhouse has affected these players skill level. You are saying the same, so what's the problem? When we discuss the teamhouses we have to look past that. Ogs house has made alot of players succesful, for example huk and jinro has done great AFTER joining the house. No one on EG has started doing really good after joining the house. See there? See the comparison? Nothing indicates that the EG house is making their players better, you can't say that about the ogs house.
No, I'm not using your argument, I'm applying your argument to a house you said does help when you have no proof that it does to show that its a bad argument. Its way too early to say the EG house isn't producing results and not worth it.
How can you say no one in the EG house started doing well after moving into the house? Idra started winning, DeMuslim has been doing great. Axslav and Machine have both improved their play, posting better results than before too.
Sure, nothing indicates they are doing better if you ignore their improvements.
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United States994 Posts
Well done TL for that graphic of Leenock.
I lol'd at 6:30AM
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yeah yeah same old news from bias people that thinks the rest of the world is catching up on the koreans, well guess what... THEY ARENT!!!!
MLG put Puzzle,Ganzi,Oz and Keen in the same losers bracket group, while guys like DDE and spanishwa + MajOr gets a walkover with no koreans. then of course it is easy to understand that they didnt make it to championship sunday when they have to take out eachother in losers bracket when they are having to fight with Leenock,Nestea,MVP and HerO for winner bracket spots.
fact of the matter is that only Naniwa and Haypro surprised in MLG along with TLO who did awesome as zerg. and in 3 months they will all except TLO have slumped back to their winning rates of tournaments before Providence. Korea will still be the best along with the 3 from EG
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On November 28 2011 20:41 Inky87 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:37 snailz wrote:On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. ok here goes ----> On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. bolded part is semi-bashing, because it's just not true. TLO played in GSL ro64 Opens, Jinro was 2x Code S semifinalist, and while on Liquid Huk got into Code S and became, well, Huk. Ret and Haypro didnt do so well, but i'd say Liquid/oGs partnership that incontrol calls out payed for itself. at a time, they still did better in korea than EG guys who went over there, including idra. On November 28 2011 19:41 iNcontroL wrote:
Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf. first bolded part... Sheth and Ret did great in last two MLG's, Huk was bought out, Haypro took out Nestea but ok didnt do so well elsewhere, and Tyler showed signs of life against Choya, while TLO attended MLG Orlando literally injured for christ sake. Hero is as Liquid as Puma is, so im not even gonna count those guys results into this. what did EG guys do? and yes i know that incontrol fucked himself over with good performance at the start of the year and would actually get less shit if he didnt play in Group Stages against best in the world, but what about other EG guys? except Idra, i really dont see how they performed better than TLAF'Liquid guys, when we exclude their koreans. and im not talkin only about MLG, but other tournies, where Liquid guys like Ret and Sheth had great success. second bolded part... if he think people see EG as Huk and PuMa then that's maybe where he's wrong. same goes for Liquid and Hero, soon Zenio. in that context, paragraph that was posted about EG results can be brought to disucssion. even FXOpen posted something along that lines. i agree with what incontrol is saying about houses and how they should never be questioned, because its not fair (they were the ones to take the risk so why would they get bad rep for doing foreigners a favour in the long run). but, he shouldnt bash Liquid guys in the process... He was being facetious.
That is to complicated for them. It's easier just to bold section of incontrol's post and act offended.
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thx for this epic coverage
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On November 28 2011 21:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:41 Inky87 wrote:On November 28 2011 20:37 snailz wrote:On November 28 2011 20:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole. ok here goes ----> On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. bolded part is semi-bashing, because it's just not true. TLO played in GSL ro64 Opens, Jinro was 2x Code S semifinalist, and while on Liquid Huk got into Code S and became, well, Huk. Ret and Haypro didnt do so well, but i'd say Liquid/oGs partnership that incontrol calls out payed for itself. at a time, they still did better in korea than EG guys who went over there, including idra. On November 28 2011 19:41 iNcontroL wrote:
Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf. first bolded part... Sheth and Ret did great in last two MLG's, Huk was bought out, Haypro took out Nestea but ok didnt do so well elsewhere, and Tyler showed signs of life against Choya, while TLO attended MLG Orlando literally injured for christ sake. Hero is as Liquid as Puma is, so im not even gonna count those guys results into this. what did EG guys do? and yes i know that incontrol fucked himself over with good performance at the start of the year and would actually get less shit if he didnt play in Group Stages against best in the world, but what about other EG guys? except Idra, i really dont see how they performed better than TLAF'Liquid guys, when we exclude their koreans. and im not talkin only about MLG, but other tournies, where Liquid guys like Ret and Sheth had great success. second bolded part... if he think people see EG as Huk and PuMa then that's maybe where he's wrong. same goes for Liquid and Hero, soon Zenio. in that context, paragraph that was posted about EG results can be brought to disucssion. even FXOpen posted something along that lines. i agree with what incontrol is saying about houses and how they should never be questioned, because its not fair (they were the ones to take the risk so why would they get bad rep for doing foreigners a favour in the long run). but, he shouldnt bash Liquid guys in the process... He was being facetious. That is to complicated for them. It's easier just to bold section of incontrol's post and act offended.
who's them?
great arguments, nice potscount, etc.
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On November 28 2011 16:39 heyoka wrote:
The Decorah Eagles Milgie for best LR thread MLG Dallas was beset by more technical problems than any major SC2 tournament to date (other contenders: Blizzcon 2010 Invitational, NASL Grand Finals Day 1, IPL 3, and the PPSL). Because of the venue's poor internet, MLG was only able to stream a grand total of three matches over the entire Saturday. So what happens when you promise tens of thousands of Starcraft fans the greatest Starcraft of their lives, and then withhold it from them? This happens, the Day 2 Live Report thread. The broken stream hammered spectators to desperation, and in their desperation, they turned to something they didn't fully understand: eagles. The thread is filled with eagle macros. Pictures of kittens jumping over streams. Fake MLG stream notices. The kind of shenanigans that no TL mod would ever tolerate in any other circumstance. But on that day, everyone had thrown up their hands, and this LR thread is a testament to the wanton abandon that filled the Starcraft void. Winner: the MLG Dallas Day 2 Live Report Thread
So deserved. Going through it right now while watching GSL, it was the most awesome thing ever.
Too bad they started banning after a while, so the article is not entirely true. Everybody was having a good time, so in that regard it was better than every LR thread since with all the flaming and balancewhine and shit. :D
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EPT
