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We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka |
On November 28 2011 19:49 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:46 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 Whiteman103 wrote:On November 28 2011 19:38 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change. Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage. i dont think he was abusing anytihng he was just one of the first players to play a macro style tarren. Let me rewrite it. TvZ - abusive (now nerfed) bunker rushes. TvT and TvP - mech style that enemies LET run them over. When someone thought "hey my normal strategy won't work because he isn't using a normal strategy let me do something else" it was over and both times he was stopped and hard. You play to win if youre not then youre dumb, he was still playing good and youre stupid if you think different.. he did not do this 100% of the games during his 2 runs so please get out
I'm not saying he is a bad person for playing to win. You mistake my post if you think that is what I'm saying. Shit if I knew about 4 gate early and I could pick up the first 3 GSL victories I would have done it. My point is very simple perhaps not simple enough for you. His TvZ 2 rax build was nerfed because it was OP simple as that just because you can abuse something does not make you the better player. His TvT and TvP builds were new and his opponents did not want to react to them, so they lost. Again he wasn't faster, he didn't micro better, because the first time in each tournament someone came back at him with an improved build he got stomped into the ground and hard. That is why he isn't doing well now, that is why he isn't consistent. He cannot keep up and even though I rooted for him every GSL he wasn't the best player and you're stupid if you think different. See, I can argue like a 5 year old as well.
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Didn't take long before this ended up like "Elephant in the Room" article 
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On November 28 2011 19:52 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. I was on incontrols stream when he got mad about this. All you do is bring up his arguments. There is no doubt that Jinro's succes in gsl can be attributed to his practice in the ogs house. Has nothing to do with deserving it. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. And after that you really have no more arguments. I actually remember incontrol himself being critical on sotg towards some ppl that formed teamhouses. "You're not just gonna get good because you live in the same house" etc. Why to not invest in the teamhouse? Well im sure it costs money and might not give them much return. Now im sure that the EG teamhouse was a good idea for many reasons, but you can't get all mad when ppl claim that it hasn't done much as far as actually getting the players better. Yes you can because the players have gotten better. No it hasn't turned Axslav and StrifeCro into champions, but the estro house didn't turn Idra into a BW great in Korea either. But both houses made those players better.
No you can't because you don't know how they would have fared just playing ladder from home.
Btw the because of the Estro/CJ training for idra he did get noticably better with better results and it did make him into a champion.
What im saying is that ofcourse people can look at their teamhouse that was specifically there to make the players better. Only EG themselves will know wether or not it has. But as an outsider you can def question the move, as far as making the players better. Just as incontrol did with the root house (or w/e house it was).
As i said there might be other reasons to make a teamhouse, but was it really worth from a performace point of view? who knows...
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On November 28 2011 19:55 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:49 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 Whiteman103 wrote:On November 28 2011 19:38 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change. Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage. i dont think he was abusing anytihng he was just one of the first players to play a macro style tarren. Let me rewrite it. TvZ - abusive (now nerfed) bunker rushes. TvT and TvP - mech style that enemies LET run them over. When someone thought "hey my normal strategy won't work because he isn't using a normal strategy let me do something else" it was over and both times he was stopped and hard. You play to win if youre not then youre dumb, he was still playing good and youre stupid if you think different.. he did not do this 100% of the games during his 2 runs so please get out I'm not saying he is a bad person for playing to win. You mistake my post if you think that is what I'm saying. Shit if I knew about 4 gate early and I could pick up the first 3 GSL victories I would have done it. My point is very simple perhaps not simple enough for you. His TvZ 2 rax build was nerfed because it was OP simple as that just because you can abuse something does not make you the better player. His TvT and TvP builds were new and his opponents did not want to react to them, so they lost. Again he wasn't faster, he didn't micro better, because the first time in each tournament someone came back at him with an improved build he got stomped into the ground and hard. That is why he isn't doing well now, that is why he isn't consistent. He cannot keep up and even though I rooted for him every GSL he wasn't the best player and you're stupid if you think different. See, I can argue like a 5 year old as well.
You have already proven that.
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On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out.
Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that.
There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No".
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On November 28 2011 20:03 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:55 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:49 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 Whiteman103 wrote:On November 28 2011 19:38 NoobSkills wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change. Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage. i dont think he was abusing anytihng he was just one of the first players to play a macro style tarren. Let me rewrite it. TvZ - abusive (now nerfed) bunker rushes. TvT and TvP - mech style that enemies LET run them over. When someone thought "hey my normal strategy won't work because he isn't using a normal strategy let me do something else" it was over and both times he was stopped and hard. You play to win if youre not then youre dumb, he was still playing good and youre stupid if you think different.. he did not do this 100% of the games during his 2 runs so please get out I'm not saying he is a bad person for playing to win. You mistake my post if you think that is what I'm saying. Shit if I knew about 4 gate early and I could pick up the first 3 GSL victories I would have done it. My point is very simple perhaps not simple enough for you. His TvZ 2 rax build was nerfed because it was OP simple as that just because you can abuse something does not make you the better player. His TvT and TvP builds were new and his opponents did not want to react to them, so they lost. Again he wasn't faster, he didn't micro better, because the first time in each tournament someone came back at him with an improved build he got stomped into the ground and hard. That is why he isn't doing well now, that is why he isn't consistent. He cannot keep up and even though I rooted for him every GSL he wasn't the best player and you're stupid if you think different. See, I can argue like a 5 year old as well. You have already proven that.
One sentence responses with no valid points or examples are for 5 year olds.... o wait!
Watch every TvZ he played 2 Rax for a reason.
Ro4 match results for Jinro 4-0 and 3-1 trashed badly.
Why? Abuse + Idiots apparently = free ride to Ro4
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Confusedcrib really seems to be confused. This was quite painful to read as TL articles are usually valued by everyone and for a reason. Lately some sections from sc2 articles however have been under the level.
Let's take the "upset" section first, someone even semi-closely following the scene can see this list is kinda way off. Like so many have already stated the names on the list are hardly "no names" and the real upset here is the section, not the results.
Then there's the EG team house opinion(from not so known news writer, this should be irrelevant but it simply is so redudant in the article that the writer is going to get what he's asking for.) which not only seems very biased; hardly adds anything to the article. The "data" as in results from few runs hardly tells nothing, EG's teamhouse hasn't even operated long enough for all their players to really benefit from it, it's gonna take more than few months before the training and everything else should come off from their players.
I hope TL wakes up since news and articles are the thing which many people come to look and read here, anyone who reads the BW articles knows how simply awesome writers TL has managed to get. Of course you can't always write the most mind blowing articles but from what we're used to I'm sure the news and TL staff made content will surely deliver.
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On November 28 2011 19:59 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:52 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. I was on incontrols stream when he got mad about this. All you do is bring up his arguments. There is no doubt that Jinro's succes in gsl can be attributed to his practice in the ogs house. Has nothing to do with deserving it. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. And after that you really have no more arguments. I actually remember incontrol himself being critical on sotg towards some ppl that formed teamhouses. "You're not just gonna get good because you live in the same house" etc. Why to not invest in the teamhouse? Well im sure it costs money and might not give them much return. Now im sure that the EG teamhouse was a good idea for many reasons, but you can't get all mad when ppl claim that it hasn't done much as far as actually getting the players better. Yes you can because the players have gotten better. No it hasn't turned Axslav and StrifeCro into champions, but the estro house didn't turn Idra into a BW great in Korea either. But both houses made those players better. No you can't because you don't know how they would have fared just playing ladder from home. Btw the because of the Estro/CJ training for idra he did get noticably better with better results and it did make him into a champion. What im saying is that ofcourse people can look at their teamhouse that was specifically there to make the players better. Only EG themselves will know wether or not it has. But as an outsider you can def question the move, as far as making the players better. Just as incontrol did with the root house (or w/e house it was). As i said there might be other reasons to make a teamhouse, but was it really worth from a performace point of view? who knows...
The EG players have gotten better since they moved into the team house, there is no doubt about that. Would they have done the same if they didnt live there? Thats an impossible question to answer. But we do know that EG has gotten better with the team house and thats why it is worth it.
MVP and Nestea don't live in the team house, but are two of the best players in the world. Why do any teams have team houses? Clearly team houses are pointless right?
And I never said Idra didn't get better in the Estro/CJ houses. I said he didn't become a BW legend in Korea, but he did improve greatly making him be in the house worth it.
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On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No".
So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house.
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not really a fan of anything written in this article. most of the things said are pretty untrue imo.
oh and Are Mvp and Nestea Still the Best Players in the World?
+ Show Spoiler +mvp showing he definitely is in game 1 vs leenock, haha. ^_^
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I think part of the reason why Nani won the most dominating run over leenock was that, despite the fact that Leenock's opponents were harder, nobody thought nani could do well at dallas. He was still that BM kid from WC3 that nobody really cared about that much. He hadn't proven his worth in TSL3 at the time of MLG dallas. So his run was not just difficult, but it was shocking and surprising.
Leenock's was too, I don't think anybody would of picked leenock to win an event where nestea, MVP, Ganzi, Oz, HuK, HerO (just to name a few) were participating, but he had already established a fairly solid reputation of having some of the worlds best ZvT in GSL. Naniwa had done practically nothing of note, except for 4gating to win a few weekly cups.
And i'm a naniwa fanboy, so yeah I think his run was more impressive because of that.
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its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand his emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right...
On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you.
stay classy incontrol 
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On November 28 2011 20:17 snailz wrote:its funny how full-time EG player goes on to bash TLAF.Liquid's players just because a member of TL.net community (relatively unimportant and random person) called out his own teammates in an article. i understand your emotions, but two wrongs don't make a right... Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:42 iNcontroL wrote:On November 28 2011 19:40 GLLvz wrote:On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real. the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!.. nobody is asking you. stay classy incontrol
Where did incontrol bash liquid guys? And sure it was written by a "relatively unimportant and random person" but the TL staff approved this article and it represents TL as a whole.
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On November 28 2011 20:16 marttorn wrote:
I think part of the reason why Nani won the most dominating run over leenock was that, despite the fact that Leenock's opponents were harder, nobody thought nani could do well at dallas. He was still that BM kid from WC3 that nobody really cared about that much. He hadn't proven his worth in TSL3 at the time of MLG dallas. So his run was not just difficult, but it was shocking and surprising.
Leenock's was too, I don't think anybody would of picked leenock to win an event where nestea, MVP, Ganzi, Oz, HuK, HerO (just to name a few) were participating, but he had already established a fairly solid reputation of having some of the worlds best ZvT in GSL. Naniwa had done practically nothing of note, except for 4gating to win a few weekly cups.
And i'm a naniwa fanboy, so yeah I think his run was more impressive because of that.
Leenock = Korean
Nani = white guy
That is why his run was "dominating" though if you include the invitational beating the supposed best T and Z in the world is pretty damn good and losing to Z like Leenock isn't the worst thing to happen to a pro player.
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I don't quite look at the EG team house part as pure, raw dissing of EG, even though I can understand people viewing it that way, but rather as a piece expressing concerns about foreign team houses.
Team houses have obviously been the way to go for Korean teams, and have been working out great for them. Therefore most people, including me, were very excited when EG set up their team house. EG set a precedent for foreign team houses, something that other teams will surely look at when deciding if it is worth it for them setting up their own. In this way how the EG players perform is important to anyone who wants to see the foreign scene developing.
The problem is that it seems as if a majority of EG players have not been improving at the rate the rest of us would expect of players living in a team house. Maybe they are performing better in practice and having a hard time in tournaments? I don't know, but the results doesn't seem to be there at this point.
Now I want to point out that I am a huge fan of all people who commit fully to something and a firm believer that hard work will pay off in the end. I was not a huge Naniwa fan (in fact I was way over on the other side due to how he behaved during the early period of the game after release), but after his decision to move to Korea he has shown more dedication than most and earned back most of his respect with me. Same goes for Sase. And I will blindly cheer for Jinro no matter who he faces for his incredible commitment to stay in the oGs house.
That also means that I want the EG players to do well. Moving into a team house shows commitment for sure. And if they are putting in the practice they say they are, which I'm not really in any position to doubt, I believe they will put out the results in the end.
But it's still a bit concerning that they haven't yet. Maybe some changes would help bring the EG team house to the level of rapid improvement we associate with the Korean team houses. I can't help but feel that, just as someone brought up before, the coach is an important part of the Korean team houses success. As far as I understand the EG house does not have a coach with its players, please correct me if I'm wrong. I think a coach that helps players setting up their practice, helps preparing them for tournaments and whatever else a coach may do fills a very important roll in a team house.
That is how I view the piece about the EG house at least. Not as hate, but as concern.
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On November 28 2011 20:15 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 20:10 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:55 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:46 skyrunner wrote:On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house. Jinro is not a good example. Neither is TLO's house in sweden. That wasn't a even a teamhouse, it was just a bunch if friends living and practicing together, completely different from the EG house wich formed for the reason of making the eg members better. I can't speak for EG but I'm pretty sure the Team House was formed in order to give their players an opportunity to truly become full time players and not live in the esports model of pre 2010. It also creates a central hub for their business as well as media production to occur, along with that, the reason is to give the players the practice environment of a Korean pro-house while still being in the West, where esports has had the explosion, not in Korea. The goal is not to here and now outright make players better, a few walls and a roof can't do that, but it can provide the scenario to get better. After 3-4 months of being in the house can we really say any of those players have gotten worse? Not only are they all streaming now but we, once again, have seen Idra break out of a slump, something a team house hasn't done for other players on other teams with the opportunity to be in a team house. That's just the most obvious example of someone who's gotten better as a result. Not to mention how can we possibly be judging ALL of these houses based on one event? When you look at a list of the players who went two and out. Actually im pretty sure it was specifically stated at the time the teamhouse was formed, that it was to make the players better by practicing in a house together. That's also what you were (and is still is) arguing for. I have said all along that it might be other reasons to have a team house, so it's kinda funny you're telling me that. There just is nothing that indicates that most of the eg players have benefited from the house, and you can't compare it to any other house saying "well look at those guys they haven't benefited from their house either" - because their just isn't any similar house to the EG house. The fact that idra was even in a slump tells us that he was a good player already. Did he break out of the slump because of the EG house? maybe, maybe not. Does ONE PLAYER breaking out of a slump justify having a teamhouse? If you only have it to get more results and no one else is, then i would say "No". So you are just against teamhouses then right? Not just the EG one. I mean who is to say how good MC could be living outside the oGs house.
ME? No im not against teamhouses. NO im NOT against EG's house. plz read.
There is alot to indicate that the ogs house makes their players better. Not when it comes to EG. Now obv you can never say for sure. Both jinro and huk became very good after living at the ogs house. No eg player has showing noticably better results since moving to the house. Maybe idra.
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Were the writers for "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" and "Who is GoSu.Gatored?" the same person? According to the article it is the same person, but those two sections contradict each other so hard that I can't help but wonder how the hell this made it to the front page.
In the former section we have the writer saying "losses to Gatored and dde when you live in a team house are hard to justify.", while in the latter we have "At IEM New York, Gatored was able to take out Strelok, DongRaeGu, and oGsTop."
Those two points obviously contradict each other, and they're formatted into adjacent sections as well. What...? Along with the aforementioned "Upsets" and "No-names" sections, leads me to question how this writer is a writer in the first place, and how the editor even allowed this to make it to the front page.
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Calling out the EG team house is baseless for and dumb. The thing has been around for 3 months and people are already saying "well it wasn't worth it, they are not winning everything." There are a number of reasons why the house is a good idea. Travel to events must be easier to manage. I could go on.
I hate to accuse someone of headline grabbing, but that part of the article seems like an attempt rile some people up and get a large, polarized response.
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No thumbs up for Illusion?
Yeah, quite a few of us figured the NA house wouldn't work out a while ago as many of them were living together already. It comes down to how you practice more than anything else. Culture baby!
Yes, Leenock was totally in the zone as Hwanni put it.
We have to be careful when we start throwing labels around like best in the word. Way to early and those were never invisible. 3 GSL titles is good, but still way to early. This should shock no one. There is still a lot of division between what I like to call the top pro's compared to the close but no cigar ones to the top 16s, 32s and so on.
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Is Puma-2 Losira-0 really an upset?
Anyhow, great tournament, great coverage!
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EPT
