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We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka |
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...
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I would have liked this article, but the section about EG was so bad I could not take this article seriously after that  Is it really necessary to be that biased in an article for the biggest SC2 site (even though it belongs to TL)? Demuslim much, wrecking havoc? Idra, Huk, Puma, Demuslim carrying the team, sure? Most teams have their star players. I haven't seen Jinro or TLO do much lately, but I don't bash on them (love those guys), even though Jinro has great practice opportunities with the oGs guys.
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Man...I first posted that picture of artosis anonymously on an...alternative starcraft community months ago, and now it's on a TL article. Super cool, and great read!
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On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
To be fair, do we ever talk about the Sweden house and what results that has shown? What was it, Haypro TLO Sjow and Morrow that lived there? I heard the house is disbanded now but...do you really expect every single person to make a hugely deep run upsetting top koreans just because they live in a house? How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
A practice house does not results make. Like others have mentioned, Idra was slumping HARD around the time of Anaheim, and it brings him back up to the status at which we expect Idra, a truly top foreign contender in every tournament.
Morrow has been non existant for months, Sjow, didn't he go two and out at MLG Providence? TLO?
I think everyone in the house and not just that but the sponsors of that house will say its a worthy investment, to suggest that its not worth its cost just purely due to one MLG tournaments results, which were where you'd expect them to be, is a pretty ludicrous claim and sure adds to the fire of the whole TL EG rivalry just due to the fact that a full time TL Staffer writes this on a post-tournament writeup that hits the front featured section.
It's impossible to say how good those players would have done without the teamhouse, and the same is obv tru for EG. I would say all those players you just mentioned are better than the EG players that we're talking about (ie not huk, idra and puma) and has had more succes after living in the house.
Though, i would say there are more reasons for EG to have a teamhouse than just practice. But when it comes to raising their skill level, can you really argue that the house practice has paid off? I feel like there is always excuses for EG when they don't do well. Demuslim hasn't been winning alot? well he has been injured. But when TLO doesn't put up results, it's...
Also wtf sjow has been doing pretty good at all the MLG's unlike alot of EG players. Now he has ONE bad mlg (an he only got to play two matches) when he is not even living in the house and you compare his results with strifecro? ok...
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Where is haypro and illusion?
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On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...
the 2 GSL RO4 were great yes but since then nothing at all. thats almost 1 year now. i love jinro but i mean gotta be fair. this write up is pretty bad i mean look at the Big upsets theres maybe 2 or 3 on that list that are big upsets.
EDIT: WTF no haypr0 matches in the big upsets umm beating nestea not an upset?
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i think there are more pics than any other MLG posted here haha, great job!
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To use an analogy from, I hope, most of our childhoods. I think the OP thinks of team houses as one of those DBZ Hyperbolic Time Chambers where you go in one second and just a short time later you come out 5 times as strong. Logically this doesn't really make sense as, while the koreans are definitely better as a whole, if team houses were that effective there would be no foreigner who could match any of their skills.
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On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...
I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house.
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Theres only so many people in top 16 at a tournament. How good does this guy think EG should be? they cant take every single spot thats just unrealistic. The hate for EG in this article is totally ridicules.
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Sweden2276 Posts
A team house without a set practise routine and rules are just a house. If it's simply about living together the players could just as well play from their seperate homes. This is the biggest difference between foreigners team houses and the better Korean ones.
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On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house.
Yes I agree with what you said, it was only the "He didnt make any large run" part I didnt like since it did pay off for him in the start. Ofc teams should makes houses and EG house have been good for them but it can also be better if they train better (This is the reason the swedish house died is becuse they didnt really train hard they just played and nothing more)
But yes I agree with what you say
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"Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?
I'll be honest guys, I'm really afraid of getting flamed for this, but it's something that's concerned me for long enough that I'm just going to say it. EG did badly, and I can't help but feel that the team house is not paying for itself. Of course when you go to EG's coverage of the event, they point to having "solid results overall," but in reality, it's only ever their golden three that do well. Thanks to Idra, Huk, and Puma, EG always manages good PR, but the results of their other players are starting to get down right disturbing: iNcontroL lost to State and Strifecro, StrifeCro lost to syckness and RuFF13, Lzgamer lost to Catz and exMaSter. Only Machine and Axslav's results are remotely explainable, with losses to Nestea, dde, Gatored, and Violet. Even with those two players though, losses to Gatored and dde when you live in a team house are hard to justify.
To be honest, if they want to justify having a team house, they need to work out a better system. While Puma and Idra seem to be practicing correctly, I can't shake the feeling that they would do well regardless of where they were living. EG needs to figure out what those two are doing right, and have everyone try to emulate it to avoid poor results. Having a team house in North America established a wonderful precedent, now they just need the results to match."
You sir not only deserve to get flamed.. but you deserve to have a bucket of gasoline thrown on your head and lit on fire.
Pantera said it best.. "Respect! One step from lashing out at you! Be yourself by yourself stay away from me! a lesson learned in life known from the dawn of time RE! SPECT! Run your mouth when Im not around! Can you hear those violins playing your song?"
-- dumb image edited out --
User was banned for this post.
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On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...
No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change.
Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage.
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Not only was the part about EG completely irrelevant to the article but it was incredibly biased and ignorant. Writers for a big community site should at least stay on topic and try to be a little unbiased.. (or so I would think) Get their shit together? Out of line and just ridiculous.
Also, if you completely disregard the top 3 performers on each team, which is what you do with EG. I think you'd find that no team is doing well.
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On November 28 2011 19:38 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.
4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything... No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change. Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage.
i dont think he was abusing anytihng he was just one of the first players to play a macro style tarren.
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On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow
calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...
but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real.
the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!..
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People should be rooting for EG house regardless if you like EG or not.
If one of the richest teams cannot make a functioning team house in the homeland, then western SC2 scene is going to struggle very much.
Every team house will eventually have to be in Korea or a partnership program, teams will only be able to send their best players overseas. B-teams will die in foreigner teams, lots of players will be fired unless they have what it takes to reach a level where they can compete in Korea.
the TL house produced EG's best preforming player
I would say that would be MC
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
pretty stupid of TL to post an article where they literally call into question making a team house.. what the fuck?
I want a vile, vVv, coL (america), Mouz, Empire etc etc etc.. house.. I want as many teams as possible taking this shit serious. Where the FUCK does TL get off calling out someone else for making a team house for themselves? A waste? It can NEVER be a waste. Even if Machine, myself, Axslav or Strife NEVER win a MLG the house is NOT a waste. It is where serious players get more serious and do the best they can to train and get better. It is where legitimate media is produced, serious practice is had and better results are posted..
I expect WAY more from TL than this shit. Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf.
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EPT
