• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:09
CEST 15:09
KST 22:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event2Serral wins EWC 202543Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments4[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced63
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025) Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments WardiTV Mondays RSL Season 2 Qualifier Links and Dates StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Global Tourney for College Students in September
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups StarCraft player reflex TE scores BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 643 users

[MLG] Providence - Finale - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
482 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 23 24 25 Next All
We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka
Lutto
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden198 Posts
November 28 2011 10:23 GMT
#81
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...
Lutto @ Battlenet
Stiluz
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway688 Posts
November 28 2011 10:26 GMT
#82
I would have liked this article, but the section about EG was so bad I could not take this article seriously after that Is it really necessary to be that biased in an article for the biggest SC2 site (even though it belongs to TL)? Demuslim much, wrecking havoc? Idra, Huk, Puma, Demuslim carrying the team, sure? Most teams have their star players. I haven't seen Jinro or TLO do much lately, but I don't bash on them (love those guys), even though Jinro has great practice opportunities with the oGs guys.
Keldory
Profile Joined December 2010
United States65 Posts
November 28 2011 10:28 GMT
#83
Man...I first posted that picture of artosis anonymously on an...alternative starcraft community months ago, and now it's on a TL article. Super cool, and great read!
"LAMO"
skyrunner
Profile Joined August 2009
371 Posts
November 28 2011 10:30 GMT
#84
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
To be fair, do we ever talk about the Sweden house and what results that has shown? What was it, Haypro TLO Sjow and Morrow that lived there? I heard the house is disbanded now but...do you really expect every single person to make a hugely deep run upsetting top koreans just because they live in a house? How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.

A practice house does not results make. Like others have mentioned, Idra was slumping HARD around the time of Anaheim, and it brings him back up to the status at which we expect Idra, a truly top foreign contender in every tournament.

Morrow has been non existant for months, Sjow, didn't he go two and out at MLG Providence? TLO?

I think everyone in the house and not just that but the sponsors of that house will say its a worthy investment, to suggest that its not worth its cost just purely due to one MLG tournaments results, which were where you'd expect them to be, is a pretty ludicrous claim and sure adds to the fire of the whole TL EG rivalry just due to the fact that a full time TL Staffer writes this on a post-tournament writeup that hits the front featured section.

It's impossible to say how good those players would have done without the teamhouse, and the same is obv tru for EG. I would say all those players you just mentioned are better than the EG players that we're talking about (ie not huk, idra and puma) and has had more succes after living in the house.

Though, i would say there are more reasons for EG to have a teamhouse than just practice. But when it comes to raising their skill level, can you really argue that the house practice has paid off? I feel like there is always excuses for EG when they don't do well. Demuslim hasn't been winning alot? well he has been injured. But when TLO doesn't put up results, it's...

Also wtf sjow has been doing pretty good at all the MLG's unlike alot of EG players. Now he has ONE bad mlg (an he only got to play two matches) when he is not even living in the house and you compare his results with strifecro? ok...
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
November 28 2011 10:30 GMT
#85
Where is haypro and illusion?
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
Whiteman103
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1070 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 10:35:29
November 28 2011 10:31 GMT
#86
On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...


the 2 GSL RO4 were great yes but since then nothing at all. thats almost 1 year now. i love jinro but i mean gotta be fair. this write up is pretty bad i mean look at the Big upsets theres maybe 2 or 3 on that list that are big upsets.

EDIT: WTF no haypr0 matches in the big upsets umm beating nestea not an upset?
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
November 28 2011 10:32 GMT
#87
i think there are more pics than any other MLG posted here haha, great job!
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
mikkeld
Profile Joined July 2011
27 Posts
November 28 2011 10:32 GMT
#88
To use an analogy from, I hope, most of our childhoods. I think the OP thinks of team houses as one of those DBZ Hyperbolic Time Chambers where you go in one second and just a short time later you come out 5 times as strong. Logically this doesn't really make sense as, while the koreans are definitely better as a whole, if team houses were that effective there would be no foreigner who could match any of their skills.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
November 28 2011 10:33 GMT
#89
On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...


I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Werk
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States294 Posts
November 28 2011 10:34 GMT
#90
Theres only so many people in top 16 at a tournament. How good does this guy think EG should be? they cant take every single spot thats just unrealistic. The hate for EG in this article is totally ridicules.
Do Werk Son
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
November 28 2011 10:35 GMT
#91
A team house without a set practise routine and rules are just a house. If it's simply about living together the players could just as well play from their seperate homes. This is the biggest difference between foreigners team houses and the better Korean ones.
Lutto
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden198 Posts
November 28 2011 10:36 GMT
#92
On November 28 2011 19:33 Zlasher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...


I didn't say he hasn't done anything, but since then have his results been expected out of practicing with oGs for so long? Asking "Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?" is the same as asking if Jinro deserves to be practicing there, its absolutely ludicrous. Jinro 100% deserves to be practicing with oGs and is a top foreign contender. Just like there is absolutely no doubt that EG should have formed the house, why NOT form the house.


Yes I agree with what you said, it was only the "He didnt make any large run" part I didnt like since it did pay off for him in the start. Ofc teams should makes houses and EG house have been good for them but it can also be better if they train better (This is the reason the swedish house died is becuse they didnt really train hard they just played and nothing more)

But yes I agree with what you say
Lutto @ Battlenet
ReflexUn4
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 16:23:33
November 28 2011 10:37 GMT
#93
"Should Team Evil Geniuses Have Established a North American Team House?


I'll be honest guys, I'm really afraid of getting flamed for this, but it's something that's concerned me for long enough that I'm just going to say it. EG did badly, and I can't help but feel that the team house is not paying for itself. Of course when you go to EG's coverage of the event, they point to having "solid results overall," but in reality, it's only ever their golden three that do well. Thanks to Idra, Huk, and Puma, EG always manages good PR, but the results of their other players are starting to get down right disturbing: iNcontroL lost to State and Strifecro, StrifeCro lost to syckness and RuFF13, Lzgamer lost to Catz and exMaSter. Only Machine and Axslav's results are remotely explainable, with losses to Nestea, dde, Gatored, and Violet. Even with those two players though, losses to Gatored and dde when you live in a team house are hard to justify.

To be honest, if they want to justify having a team house, they need to work out a better system. While Puma and Idra seem to be practicing correctly, I can't shake the feeling that they would do well regardless of where they were living. EG needs to figure out what those two are doing right, and have everyone try to emulate it to avoid poor results. Having a team house in North America established a wonderful precedent, now they just need the results to match."

You sir not only deserve to get flamed.. but you deserve to have a bucket of gasoline thrown on your head and lit on fire.

Pantera said it best.. "Respect! One step from lashing out at you! Be yourself by yourself stay away from me! a lesson learned in life known from the dawn of time RE! SPECT! Run your mouth when Im not around! Can you hear those violins playing your song?"

-- dumb image edited out --

User was banned for this post.
Go Big or Go Home!
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
November 28 2011 10:38 GMT
#94
On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...


No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change.

Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage.
cvt
Profile Joined November 2011
United States192 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 10:46:56
November 28 2011 10:39 GMT
#95
Not only was the part about EG completely irrelevant to the article but it was incredibly biased and ignorant. Writers for a big community site should at least stay on topic and try to be a little unbiased.. (or so I would think) Get their shit together? Out of line and just ridiculous.

Also, if you completely disregard the top 3 performers on each team, which is what you do with EG. I think you'd find that no team is doing well.
Whiteman103
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1070 Posts
November 28 2011 10:40 GMT
#96
On November 28 2011 19:38 NoobSkills wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 19:23 Lutto wrote:
On November 28 2011 19:20 Zlasher wrote:
How about Jinro? He didn't make any large run and he doesn't just live in a house for 4 months, he's been there for like 16 months practicing with what is the most represented Code S Korean team.


4th place GSL 2 times in the start dosent count? Yes he has fallen off after that but you dont need to say that he havent done anything...


No it doesn't count. Him winning using an abusing TvZ style and a mech style that nobody adapted against in the other match up's didn't make him the better player for playing in a team house it made him a player who was winning from abuse and lack of smart opponents. When he did wind up facing the decent Code S players he got stomped. It has been said by many that there are plenty of people in Code S who shouldn't be there. It was true back then and it will probably still be true next season even with this format change.

Meanwhile their article really isn't saying the team house wasn't a good idea, but pointing out that the house existing isn't enough. It seems like these players are getting worse at match ups despite not only playing in a house together, but after the team has recruited two very good players (huk and puma). EG is still my favorite team, but I would really like a couple more players (machine, inc, demus) to make runs deeper in these tournaments tired of having to watch Puma barely get beat, idra lose series to the accidental gg slip, and Huk continue to Boss it out, but tunnel vision his way out of an advantage.


i dont think he was abusing anytihng he was just one of the first players to play a macro style tarren.
GLLvz
Profile Joined April 2011
Norway122 Posts
November 28 2011 10:40 GMT
#97
On November 28 2011 18:49 iNcontroL wrote:
wow

calling out EG house.. ok. Well TL abandoned korea cause their results were even worse there so maybe the investment of TL / oGs was a bad idea as well? A worse idea even...

but that'd be a dumb thing to say.. especially on an official article. We have had the house for 3 months and the results have gotten a helluva lot better but you are going to say it was a waste? get real.


the TL house produced EG's best preforming player and your saying they are doing bad? Jinro 2 times 4th place @ GSL. And bashing TL's team because someone is stateing the obvious, this comming from a offical EG member and not a Random News writer on a community site. pretty low if you ask me!..
Lvz
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 10:41:46
November 28 2011 10:40 GMT
#98
People should be rooting for EG house regardless if you like EG or not.

If one of the richest teams cannot make a functioning team house in the homeland, then western SC2 scene is going to struggle very much.

Every team house will eventually have to be in Korea or a partnership program, teams will only be able to send their best players overseas. B-teams will die in foreigner teams, lots of players will be fired unless they have what it takes to reach a level where they can compete in Korea.

the TL house produced EG's best preforming player


I would say that would be MC
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
November 28 2011 10:41 GMT
#99
pretty stupid of TL to post an article where they literally call into question making a team house.. what the fuck?

I want a vile, vVv, coL (america), Mouz, Empire etc etc etc.. house.. I want as many teams as possible taking this shit serious. Where the FUCK does TL get off calling out someone else for making a team house for themselves? A waste? It can NEVER be a waste. Even if Machine, myself, Axslav or Strife NEVER win a MLG the house is NOT a waste. It is where serious players get more serious and do the best they can to train and get better. It is where legitimate media is produced, serious practice is had and better results are posted..

I expect WAY more from TL than this shit. Everyone and their mother could call out TL for their results and their partnership/house with oGs but they don't because that would be a dumb thing to do in this community.. and yet the #1 community website goes out and calls out their rival while turning the blinders to their own crowd of players who are "carried" by players who churn out less results than the ones who carry EG... wtf.
StrinterN
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark531 Posts
November 28 2011 10:41 GMT
#100
Nice write up! (:
Twitter: @Strintern Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/strintern
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 23 24 25 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LiuLi Cup
11:00
#1
WardiTV767
TKL 242
Rex103
IntoTheiNu 37
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 242
Rex 103
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 54471
actioN 9604
Rain 4704
Sea 3833
ggaemo 2615
Bisu 2112
Mong 743
Larva 578
BeSt 401
Stork 302
[ Show more ]
Barracks 301
Soulkey 265
Zeus 245
Mini 240
ZerO 224
hero 168
Pusan 167
sSak 154
Snow 148
Soma 116
Sharp 78
JYJ62
TY 60
Shine 52
Sacsri 47
Aegong 43
Killer 41
Icarus 29
Dewaltoss 29
soO 28
[sc1f]eonzerg 26
sas.Sziky 20
sorry 19
Bale 18
Sexy 18
yabsab 16
JulyZerg 12
IntoTheRainbow 11
scan(afreeca) 9
Terrorterran 7
Stormgate
Lowko348
BeoMulf118
Dota 2
Gorgc4557
qojqva2620
XcaliburYe497
boxi98175
Counter-Strike
SPUNJ411
kRYSTAL_42
Other Games
singsing2494
hiko2430
B2W.Neo1614
crisheroes524
DeMusliM458
RotterdaM234
XaKoH 171
ArmadaUGS71
KnowMe62
QueenE53
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV27
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• FirePhoenix0
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV511
League of Legends
• Jankos1021
• Nemesis129
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 51m
RSL Revival
12h 51m
RSL Revival
20h 51m
SC Evo League
22h 51m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 1h
CSO Cup
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.