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On November 10 2011 12:23 BooMeyMoMo wrote:
Once all this happened I knew that IGN was going to evaluate all the information and release a smart, logical and clarifying statement. I wish we had more answers of what Gus did with the money and if the airplane tickets/travel agent debt (her name slips my mind) was taken care of. But the way Alex, David Ting and the rest of the IPL staff have conducted themselves so far, I'm sure everybody will be taken care of to the best of their ability.
My last thought, not to bring up past BS after Alex has released this uplifting statement, is that I'm still wondering about the Gus and YoonYJ situation. As far as we all know, YoonYJ took 3rd place and was promised not only verbally, but a written contract, to be flown and accommodated for the regional qualifier. The posted conversations between Gus and YoonYJ clearly showed that Gus was dodging him and making every excuse in the book to not send him to the qualifier. Then we all know that Gus ended up sending Sickness after he adopted the AZK clan tag. Which is total horsesh!t.
Now the question I have is AZKSickness innocent in all this, meaning...
~Did Gus just tell him "Hey Sickness, if you add our tag I can get you to the qualifier all expenses paid"
or
~Did Sickness know that YoonYJ was getting screwed in this deal and he was in collusion with Gus. Depending on the answer to this would greatly affect my feelings on Sickness as a player/person and the whole AZK clan?
If anybody knows any information I would love to konw.
This question may be better placed in on of the other threads - the Gus or the PPSL thread. This thread should be more a discussion on IGN's side of things.
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This is exactly how large corporations that sponsor esports events should act. Thanks for your continued efforts; you have my respect. Remaining open towards the community to help foster growth of the scene is exactly what is needed.
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On November 10 2011 12:17 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:08 JinDesu wrote:
I think they are showing some responsibility by stating that they will try to distribute the remaining funds to the appropriate parties. They do not have any presence in the Philippines, and I doubt they have the full story on what needs to be done there. It'd be completely unfair to expect them to swoop in like Superman and set everything right at this moment.
My personal expectation is that IPL distributes the remaining funds, and then give out additional support to the people who were shafted by this event. I don't expect them to do this right away since the matter of Gus should be dealt with first (after all, he has the other $7,000 from IPL and $2,000 from S2).
To be clear, obviously, the best solution is that Gus comes in and everything is settled properly. But in the case that he disappears and refuses to pay the money due, I just feel the next best answer is for IGN/other sponsors (I don't know to what extent twitch.tv, nvidia, razer, etc were sponsors) to actively take responsibility. I was concerned because as of now, (at least to my understanding) IGN has apologized, promised the players the event still would be counted as an IPL qualifier, and said they will still allocate the money they had already agreed to, but beyond that, the responsibility was on PPSL. I just hope they see that at this time, we need more from them.
Umm.. Sars don't mean to be rude but that's stupid of you.
They guaranteed that it was still qualifier even after the mess Gus left because the players were already there. If they pulled out the IPL Qualifier clause to the games then the effort the pros put to it would be a complete and utter waste. Why do you think MKP, Moon, Sen, Fruitdealer played? It wasn't for the money. Think about it, would they have stayed through the conditions of lag spikes, disconnects and problematic hardware if it wasn't an IPL Qualifier? It was another saving grace not for Gus but meant for the players who participated and gave it their best despite the shortcomings of the PPSL.
You want someone else to fallback on for the "Responsibility" for the totality of the event because the one who should have been responsible wasn't. What fairy tale land do you think this is?
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On November 10 2011 12:22 Sky101 wrote:
Hi Gus </sarcasm>
No!
IGN does not have to do a thing more than what is already stated in their contract with PPSL. Just because they're a "big" corporation doesn't mean they have to throw money away to fix someone else's problems (Gus').
If you read my post at all, I admitted they don't 'have' to do anything more. However, if you watched that stream at all, that thing looked like an IGN event. Unless you were well informed, you wouldn't have known beforehand that it wasn't an IGN run event (as it was an IPL Qualifier afterall, with Tastosis and Seltzerplease). This is why I directed my post at IGN more than the other sponsors.
The point isn't to let Gus get off scott free. Obviously, if IGN were to foot the bill, the expectation would be that they'd seek payment from Gus, through legal means if necessary. Its just demoralizing to see people who worked desperately and paid dearly to support a game they love get stuck in dire straits when someone better equipped to handle it is there.
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On November 10 2011 12:34 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:22 Sky101 wrote:
Hi Gus </sarcasm>
No!
IGN does not have to do a thing more than what is already stated in their contract with PPSL. Just because they're a "big" corporation doesn't mean they have to throw money away to fix someone else's problems (Gus'). If you read my post at all, I admitted they don't 'have' to do anything more. However, if you watched that stream at all, that thing looked like an IGN event. Unless you were well informed, you wouldn't have known beforehand that it wasn't an IGN run event (as it was an IPL Qualifier afterall, with Tastosis and Seltzerplease). This is why I directed my post at IGN more than the other sponsors. The point isn't to let Gus get off scott free. Obviously, if IGN were to foot the bill, the expectation would be that they'd seek payment from Gus, through legal means if necessary. Its just demoralizing to see people who worked desperately and paid dearly to support a game they love get stuck in dire straits when someone better equipped to handle it is there.
IPL has done phenomenal things for esports, has hosted phenomenal tournaments, and has been open and honest with the community on a regular basis. Asking more of them is just greedy.
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On November 10 2011 12:34 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:22 Sky101 wrote:
Hi Gus </sarcasm>
No!
IGN does not have to do a thing more than what is already stated in their contract with PPSL. Just because they're a "big" corporation doesn't mean they have to throw money away to fix someone else's problems (Gus'). If you read my post at all, I admitted they don't 'have' to do anything more. However, if you watched that stream at all, that thing looked like an IGN event. Unless you were well informed, you wouldn't have known beforehand that it wasn't an IGN run event (as it was an IPL Qualifier afterall, with Tastosis and Seltzerplease). This is why I directed my post at IGN more than the other sponsors. The point isn't to let Gus get off scott free. Obviously, if IGN were to foot the bill, the expectation would be that they'd seek payment from Gus, through legal means if necessary. Its just demoralizing to see people who worked desperately and paid dearly to support a game they love get stuck in dire straits when someone better equipped to handle it is there.
Well if you did watch the stream, it didn't look anything like an IGN run gig. I mean 480p looked almost the same with 240p. Other than that, would you even just simply watch the stream and not be aware of forums discussing the issues?
You can't expect IGN to put themelves out there then hope they can press charges and right Gus' wrong.
Again, they made it an IPL qualifier to help the SEA scene and specifically the Phil. E-sport community. They didn't pull out the right of the champion to be qualified for IPL4 because they wanted to help, but they could very well have pulled out if they wanted to because of failure to abide by the agreement between IGN and PPSL.
As was said in Lo3, we don't even know if the event venue was paid, and who else and how much still needed to paid. Don't tell me a corporation like IGN would simply just say o 12k, no biggie. Then suddenly oh so now its 15k, chump change. Then 20k.. hmm.. let me think about it a bit, sure! That's not how you run a company Sars.
Also, if you think about it thoroughly, IGN shouldn't cover anything beyond 7k because it would set a bad precedent for other events that might "fail". They future might look back on this and say IGN did this and that for PPSL why didn't they do it for (future failed event here).
I hope that gives you a better understanding of the situation.
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On November 10 2011 12:31 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Umm.. Sars don't mean to be rude but that's stupid of you.
They guaranteed that it was still qualifier even after the mess Gus left because the players were already there. If they pulled out the IPL Qualifier clause to the games then the effort the pros put to it would be a complete and utter waste. Why do you think MKP, Moon, Sen, Fruitdealer played? It wasn't for the money. Think about it, would they have stayed through the conditions of lag spikes, disconnects and problematic hardware if it wasn't an IPL Qualifier? It was another saving grace not for Gus but meant for the players who participated and gave it their best despite the shortcomings of the PPSL.
You want someone else to fallback on for the "Responsibility" for the totality of the event because the one who should have been responsible wasn't. What fairy tale land do you think this is?
First off, blame and responsibility are different. I don't think IGN is to blame, and I said so in my first post.
Let me offer you two analogies. Neither perfectly fits this situation, and perhaps neither are realistic, but I think the point is the same.
Lets say the New York Giants sell out a (American) NFL football game. People come to the stadium, but for whatever reason, the game is not played and the entirety of the New York Giants corporation disappears, and refuse to reimburse the ticketbuyers. You can bet that ultimately the NFL would be held responsible for taking care of those fans who paid, for paying the employees who went to work there that day, and to answer to any problems caused by one of their franchises disappearing. Why? Because that event carried the NFL name on it. Even though the NY Giants are a separate company, the NFL still needs to protect their brand.
Lets say a guy pays McDonalds for the rights to open a McDonalds chain in his city. He then proceeds to put razor blades in all the burgers. People sue, the Media/public is in an uproar. McDonalds does not own that particular restaurant,but you can bet that they are going to have to get involved in the issue legally. Why? Because its still a McDonalds restaurant, carrying their name.
I don't know what fairytale world you live in where a business doesn't have to take responsibility for their brand name.
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On November 10 2011 12:49 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:31 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Umm.. Sars don't mean to be rude but that's stupid of you.
They guaranteed that it was still qualifier even after the mess Gus left because the players were already there. If they pulled out the IPL Qualifier clause to the games then the effort the pros put to it would be a complete and utter waste. Why do you think MKP, Moon, Sen, Fruitdealer played? It wasn't for the money. Think about it, would they have stayed through the conditions of lag spikes, disconnects and problematic hardware if it wasn't an IPL Qualifier? It was another saving grace not for Gus but meant for the players who participated and gave it their best despite the shortcomings of the PPSL.
You want someone else to fallback on for the "Responsibility" for the totality of the event because the one who should have been responsible wasn't. What fairy tale land do you think this is? First off, blame and responsibility are different. I don't think IGN is to blame, and I said so in my first post. Let me offer you two analogies. Neither perfectly fits this situation, and perhaps neither are realistic, but I think the point is the same. Lets say the New York Giants sell out a (American) NFL football game. People come to the stadium, but for whatever reason, the game is not played and the entirety of the New York Giants corporation disappears, and refuse to reimburse the ticketbuyers. You can bet that ultimately the NFL would be held responsible for taking care of those fans who paid, for paying the employees who went to work there that day, and to answer to any problems caused by one of their franchises disappearing. Why? Because that event carried the NFL name on it. Even though the NY Giants are a separate company, the NFL still needs to protect their brand. Lets say a guy pays McDonalds for the rights to open a McDonalds chain in his city. He then proceeds to put razor blades in all the burgers. People sue, the Media/public is in an uproar. McDonalds does not own that particular restaurant,but you can bet that they are going to have to get involved in the issue legally. Why? Because its still a McDonalds restaurant, carrying their name. I don't know what fairytale world you live in where a business doesn't have to take responsibility for their brand name.
> edit <
Your NFL example doesn't work. isntead of the NFL paying, in this case it would be something like....Pepsi because they sponsor the new york giants. The NFL is not a sponsor of the New York Giants. There IS NO NY GIANTS w/o the NFL, theres a difference.
IGN has stated their going to use the remaining funds to try and fix any wrongs they can, but expecting them to fix EVERYTHING is dillusional. They were a sponsor, there were other sponsors - if you beleive ign should pay, all other sponsors should help to right? It doesn't work like that.
edit : i cant format properly.
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On November 10 2011 12:49 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:31 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Umm.. Sars don't mean to be rude but that's stupid of you.
They guaranteed that it was still qualifier even after the mess Gus left because the players were already there. If they pulled out the IPL Qualifier clause to the games then the effort the pros put to it would be a complete and utter waste. Why do you think MKP, Moon, Sen, Fruitdealer played? It wasn't for the money. Think about it, would they have stayed through the conditions of lag spikes, disconnects and problematic hardware if it wasn't an IPL Qualifier? It was another saving grace not for Gus but meant for the players who participated and gave it their best despite the shortcomings of the PPSL.
You want someone else to fallback on for the "Responsibility" for the totality of the event because the one who should have been responsible wasn't. What fairy tale land do you think this is? First off, blame and responsibility are different. I don't think IGN is to blame, and I said so in my first post. Let me offer you two analogies. Neither perfectly fits this situation, and perhaps neither are realistic, but I think the point is the same. Lets say the New York Giants sell out a (American) NFL football game. People come to the stadium, but for whatever reason, the game is not played and the entirety of the New York Giants corporation disappears, and refuse to reimburse the ticketbuyers. You can bet that ultimately the NFL would be held responsible for taking care of those fans who paid, for paying the employees who went to work there that day, and to answer to any problems caused by one of their franchises disappearing. Why? Because that event carried the NFL name on it. Even though the NY Giants are a separate company, the NFL still needs to protect their brand. Lets say a guy pays McDonalds for the rights to open a McDonalds chain in his city. He then proceeds to put razor blades in all the burgers. People sue, the Media/public is in an uproar. McDonalds does not own that particular restaurant,but you can bet that they are going to have to get involved in the issue legally. Why? Because its still a McDonalds restaurant, carrying their name. I don't know what fairytale world you live in where a business doesn't have to take responsibility for their brand name.
Except in this case nobody blames IGN/IPL or holds their brand name responsible for this fiasco. Even with that said, they are taking care of what they can to make things right and to expect anymore from them or to hold them to your standard is unreasonable.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 10 2011 12:49 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:31 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Umm.. Sars don't mean to be rude but that's stupid of you.
They guaranteed that it was still qualifier even after the mess Gus left because the players were already there. If they pulled out the IPL Qualifier clause to the games then the effort the pros put to it would be a complete and utter waste. Why do you think MKP, Moon, Sen, Fruitdealer played? It wasn't for the money. Think about it, would they have stayed through the conditions of lag spikes, disconnects and problematic hardware if it wasn't an IPL Qualifier? It was another saving grace not for Gus but meant for the players who participated and gave it their best despite the shortcomings of the PPSL.
You want someone else to fallback on for the "Responsibility" for the totality of the event because the one who should have been responsible wasn't. What fairy tale land do you think this is? First off, blame and responsibility are different. I don't think IGN is to blame, and I said so in my first post. Let me offer you two analogies. Neither perfectly fits this situation, and perhaps neither are realistic, but I think the point is the same. Lets say the New York Giants sell out a (American) NFL football game. People come to the stadium, but for whatever reason, the game is not played and the entirety of the New York Giants corporation disappears, and refuse to reimburse the ticketbuyers. You can bet that ultimately the NFL would be held responsible for taking care of those fans who paid, for paying the employees who went to work there that day, and to answer to any problems caused by one of their franchises disappearing. Why? Because that event carried the NFL name on it. Even though the NY Giants are a separate company, the NFL still needs to protect their brand. Lets say a guy pays McDonalds for the rights to open a McDonalds chain in his city. He then proceeds to put razor blades in all the burgers. People sue, the Media/public is in an uproar. McDonalds does not own that particular restaurant,but you can bet that they are going to have to get involved in the issue legally. Why? Because its still a McDonalds restaurant, carrying their name. I don't know what fairytale world you live in where a business doesn't have to take responsibility for their brand name.
I'm sorry Sars but I find that analogy still hard to swallow.
First of your analogy of the NFL, you talk of a corporation suddenly disappearing, a reputable corporation or group. It's not a reality that would happen so I scratch that off the list.
EDIT: Oh and in the event that it did happen, what would happen is Giants would go to bankruptcy court, all their assets would be liquidated to pay for whatever dues. I still don't see NFL ponying up the cash for the Giants though in whatever scenario you want to put it.
Second scenario, Mcdonalds goes out and says this is an isolated incident with a rogue employee. All is well. Cmon Sars, you are talking about a single franchise of Mcdonalds. It's different if every single one of their chains does it.
And it is the PPSL not the IPL ok? the brand was PPSL that counted as a qualifier. MLG has a qualifier for Code S Spots for GSL right? does that mean MLG and GSL are one and the same? It doesn't Sars, it never did.
So what you want to happen is a fairy tale.
How about HonSlaught, are you saying S2 games should also go forth and run an event to have it happen because they were a legitimate sponsor and shell out another 2k usd that went missing the first time?
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On November 10 2011 12:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Well if you did watch the stream, it didn't look anything like an IGN run gig. I mean 480p looked almost the same with 240p. Other than that, would you even just simply watch the stream and not be aware of forums discussing the issues?
You can't expect IGN to put themelves out there then hope they can press charges and right Gus' wrong.
Again, they made it an IPL qualifier to help the SEA scene and specifically the Phil. E-sport community. They didn't pull out the right of the champion to be qualified for IPL4 because they wanted to help, but they could very well have pulled out if they wanted to because of failure to abide by the agreement between IGN and PPSL.
As was said in Lo3, we don't even know if the event venue was paid, and who else and how much still needed to paid. Don't tell me a corporation like IGN would simply just say o 12k, no biggie. Then suddenly oh so now its 15k, chump change. Then 20k.. hmm.. let me think about it a bit, sure! That's not how you run a company Sars.
Also, if you think about it thoroughly, IGN shouldn't cover anything beyond 7k because it would set a bad precedent for other events that might "fail". They future might look back on this and say IGN did this and that for PPSL why didn't they do it for (future failed event here).
I hope that gives you a better understanding of the situation.
I did watch the stream for a few hours the first day. EVERYTHING said IGN on it. The stage, the booths, the stream itself. As someone else said, many of the notable players probably would not have shown up if it weren't an IPL qualifier. I understand how commendable the effort to expanding esports globally is, and how big a risk it was. But thats exactly it. It was a RISK.
If you put your brand on a product that openly, and openly connect it to the rest of your products, I don't see how you can't feel compelled to uphold the quality of your brand name. I already said, it maybe harder budget wise for them to do it than I was presenting it, but as I said, if all the people clamoring to donate money to the cause were instead to pledge to spend it with IGN, it would create a safer, more unified way of taking care of the people who were wronged, and creating a stronger position to go after Gus.
The only precedent I see this setting is that, as they have already said, in the future, they are going to be less trusting, and more thorough in choosing what events to sponsor and support. The chances of IGN/IPL backing an event that is poorly run again in the future I would guess to be basically nil.
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On November 10 2011 12:34 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:22 Sky101 wrote:
Hi Gus </sarcasm>
No!
IGN does not have to do a thing more than what is already stated in their contract with PPSL. Just because they're a "big" corporation doesn't mean they have to throw money away to fix someone else's problems (Gus'). If you read my post at all, I admitted they don't 'have' to do anything more. However, if you watched that stream at all, that thing looked like an IGN event. Unless you were well informed, you wouldn't have known beforehand that it wasn't an IGN run event (as it was an IPL Qualifier afterall, with Tastosis and Seltzerplease). This is why I directed my post at IGN more than the other sponsors. The point isn't to let Gus get off scott free. Obviously, if IGN were to foot the bill, the expectation would be that they'd seek payment from Gus, through legal means if necessary. Its just demoralizing to see people who worked desperately and paid dearly to support a game they love get stuck in dire straits when someone better equipped to handle it is there.
First, IGN has shouldered some of the blame, as you can tell by the IPL's message to the community. Second, it seems that it is you who clearly have not been reading the 'Posts' carefully IPL has apologized to the community for giving us a lousy product under the IPL name, albeit a product outsourced to PPSL. Legally speaking, the only thing they need to do is wire the rest of the 7k to Gus and wash their hands off the event, but they took the onus on themselves to use the money to pay the people who worked hard at the event, only to be deceived and paid nothing from Gus. Asking them to pay anymore would cause a debacle not unlike a roman carnival, as the sum that Gus owes is definitely more than 13k, as we know for a fact that he does not just owe Clive (now thegunrun) and Amanda money, but much of his event staff (KTSMedia and groundstaff), he people he scammed for VIP tickets, and YJ 1.6k as well. This will altogether add up to be a sum just as much of not more than the sponsored sum of 14k.
It's also sad that you don't know the person that will get all the flak for this, David Ting, the man behind IPL, who has done so much for the esports community. IGN isn't a charity organization and things isnt as simple as 'David snaps his fingers twice and another 14k magically appears'. If anything he's probably already in a lot of trouble with the IGN higher ups, and asking for more money will only get him into even more trouble, trouble that Gus caused.
As a matter of moral correctness and principle it should be Gus who pays for the debts that he owes to the people whose blood sweat and years he has wasted, not anyone else.
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what really makes me sad is that these guys came up to ipl and for whatever reason ipl decided to give them a shot. they saw a bunch of guys who wanted to make something happen in a developing scene and ipl ran with it. those guys let ipl down big time, and now i dont see ipl doing that again. it was probably naive to think some people who approach you with no previous experience could pull off anything decent (ignoring the downright illegality of some of the things gus has done) but it makes me kinda feel good about ipl and our community to know that they were willing to give it a try.
if it had been a success maybe ipl would be looking to run more events and cups where they could take a hands off approach. offering a spot at a major ipl event along with the prize would draw attention to less hyped events and who knows how things could of gone from there. a real community project to bring content out with minimal backing from ipl to keep it exciting.
but now i dont see that happening. i dont see ipl taking that risk again and that makes me sad. so if alex is reading this thread id love to hear that they havent given up on backing smaller producers. grass roots stuff is always the secret to success and growth but not many people have the capital to sit back while the grass grows. ign has that capital, right now they are the only ones who could fund anything like that in a meaningful way.
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I really hope u keep doing this regional things and keep making your brand grow bigger alongside with eSports
thanks for the post and keep it up 
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On November 10 2011 12:56 SMD wrote:
Your NFL example doesn't work. isntead of the NFL paying, in this case it would be something like....Pepsi because they sponsor the new york giants. The NFL is not a sponsor of the New York Giants. There IS NO NY GIANTS w/o the NFL, theres a difference.
IGN has stated their going to use the remaining funds to try and fix any wrongs they can, but expecting them to fix EVERYTHING is dillusional. They were a sponsor, there were other sponsors - if you beleive ign should pay, all other sponsors should help to right? It doesn't work like that.
edit : i cant format properly.
As I said, they weren't perfect analogies, but just remember that each NFL franchise is its own company, selling its own individual team. Anyone can create their own football team, and try to get people to buy tickets to watch them. The difference is, when a team plays for the NFL, that brand name instills an assurance of quality and legitimacy. The NFL makes sure that teams are properly run to account for the success of the whole league.
As soon as IGN agreed to let this team (the PPSL) be apart of their league (a qualifier for the overall IPL), the event now carries that same assurance of quality and legitimacy, to the players, to the fans, and to the employees. At least, that would be my argument. This is what sets them apart from other sponsors, although I would hope the other sponsors might be willing to help out too.
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On November 10 2011 13:05 turdburgler wrote:
what really makes me sad is that these guys came up to ipl and for whatever reason ipl decided to give them a shot. they saw a bunch of guys who wanted to make something happen in a developing scene and ipl ran with it. those guys let ipl down big time, and now i dont see ipl doing that again. it was probably naive to think some people who approach you with no previous experience could pull off anything decent (ignoring the downright illegality of some of the things gus has done) but it makes me kinda feel good about ipl and our community to know that they were willing to give it a try.
if it had been a success maybe ipl would be looking to run more events and cups where they could take a hands off approach. offering a spot at a major ipl event along with the prize would draw attention to less hyped events and who knows how things could of gone from there. a real community project to bring content out with minimal backing from ipl to keep it exciting.
but now i dont see that happening. i dont see ipl taking that risk again and that makes me sad. so if alex is reading this thread id love to hear that they havent given up on backing smaller producers. grass roots stuff is always the secret to success and growth but not many people have the capital to sit back while the grass grows. ign has that capital, right now they are the only ones who could fund anything like that in a meaningful way.
If you read IPL's Follow-Up message at all, IPL actually went to PPSL. When they found out PPSL had hired Tastosis and were planning to bring in some big-name players, they made a deal with PPSL to change the date of their event, in exchange for IPL's sponsorship of the event.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 10 2011 12:59 SarsFlu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 12:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Well if you did watch the stream, it didn't look anything like an IGN run gig. I mean 480p looked almost the same with 240p. Other than that, would you even just simply watch the stream and not be aware of forums discussing the issues?
You can't expect IGN to put themelves out there then hope they can press charges and right Gus' wrong.
Again, they made it an IPL qualifier to help the SEA scene and specifically the Phil. E-sport community. They didn't pull out the right of the champion to be qualified for IPL4 because they wanted to help, but they could very well have pulled out if they wanted to because of failure to abide by the agreement between IGN and PPSL.
As was said in Lo3, we don't even know if the event venue was paid, and who else and how much still needed to paid. Don't tell me a corporation like IGN would simply just say o 12k, no biggie. Then suddenly oh so now its 15k, chump change. Then 20k.. hmm.. let me think about it a bit, sure! That's not how you run a company Sars.
Also, if you think about it thoroughly, IGN shouldn't cover anything beyond 7k because it would set a bad precedent for other events that might "fail". They future might look back on this and say IGN did this and that for PPSL why didn't they do it for (future failed event here).
I hope that gives you a better understanding of the situation. I did watch the stream for a few hours the first day. EVERYTHING said IGN on it. The stage, the booths, the stream itself. As someone else said, many of the notable players probably would not have shown up if it weren't an IPL qualifier. I understand how commendable the effort to expanding esports globally is, and how big a risk it was. But thats exactly it. It was a RISK. If you put your brand on a product that openly, and openly connect it to the rest of your products, I don't see how you can't feel compelled to uphold the quality of your brand name. I already said, it maybe harder budget wise for them to do it than I was presenting it, but as I said, if all the people clamoring to donate money to the cause were instead to pledge to spend it with IGN, it would create a safer, more unified way of taking care of the people who were wronged, and creating a stronger position to go after Gus. The only precedent I see this setting is that, as they have already said, in the future, they are going to be less trusting, and more thorough in choosing what events to sponsor and support. The chances of IGN/IPL backing an event that is poorly run again in the future I would guess to be basically nil.
Going by the logic of RISK, you can always cut your losses which IGN is not doing but they are already putting themselves out there.
Anyway, when IGN pulled out from the event after day1's fiasco, you couldn't really expect anyone to strip of the IGN stickers, especially from the booths when there were other pressing matters at hand.
I actually don't agree with the donation because it is again another bad precedent. If you continue with that direction of the community helping wronged e-sport individuals in events, what's to stop the next one?
What I mean is like the case of Amanda. We are still unsure of how the situation came about but it may very well that she was the SOLE guarantor for the payment of tickets and she may/could have issued dated checks to the agency expecting them to clear (it was the only reason I could think of where she would be jailed through the case of ESTAFA). So she put too much trust in Gus and now has no resort but to ask help from the community. Say she is bailed out by the community. What happens to the next victim who also didn't think everything through and put all the risk on themselves?
If you also look back at all the posts as to how Clive ended up with the hotel bill, Gus told Clive he didn't have a credit card? REALLY? How can you own a Blackberry and a Macbook Pro and organize an event without a single f-ing credit card to your name?
I am not saying Gus scammed all these people but what I am saying and I think most would agree is Gus is smart enough to avoid as much responsibility to his name/person as much as possible, especially when it comes to payments but he wasn't smart/good enough to plan/manage/operate/study the PPSL. He f-cked up. But he didn't just f-ck up, He F-CKED UP BIG and he is dragging people down with him.
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On November 10 2011 12:57 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I'm sorry Sars but I find that analogy still hard to swallow.
First of your analogy of the NFL, you talk of a corporation suddenly disappearing, a reputable corporation or group. It's not a reality that would happen so I scratch that off the list.
EDIT: Oh and in the event that it did happen, what would happen is Giants would go to bankruptcy court, all their assets would be liquidated to pay for whatever dues. I still don't see NFL ponying up the cash for the Giants though in whatever scenario you want to put it.
Second scenario, Mcdonalds goes out and says this is an isolated incident with a rogue employee. All is well. Cmon Sars, you are talking about a single franchise of Mcdonalds. It's different if every single one of their chains does it.
And it is the PPSL not the IPL ok? the brand was PPSL that counted as a qualifier. MLG has a qualifier for Code S Spots for GSL right? does that mean MLG and GSL are one and the same? It doesn't Sars, it never did.
So what you want to happen is a fairy tale.
How about HonSlaught, are you saying S2 games should also go forth and run an event to have it happen because they were a legitimate sponsor and shell out another 2k usd that went missing the first time?
I don't disagree with you that the NFL would be able to chase down the Giants in a realistic scenario. However, in the Philippines, in this case, that may not happen, which is why I carry out the rest of the scenario.
If you seriously think that all McDonalds would have to say is that it was one rogue restaurant, and all would be forgiven, you are delusional. If the owner of that individual chain disappeared and could not be found (again, not realistic, but its what we're facing in reality now), Mcdonalds would definately have to answer for the damages caused.
The Honslaught event didn't happen, which is its own problem, but S2 didn't declare it a regional event for its bigger league. And while they themselves are out 2k, no team was declared a winner. Afaik, no teams paid entry fees. So, its a different situation, and people in general were not hurt even close to as badly.
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Transparency is always good. Thanks n keep it up!
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EPT
