A Follow-Up Message from the IPL - Page 8

On November 10 2011 16:27 NicolBolas wrote:


Ultimate responsibility for anything lies with the last person who could have made a choice and made the wrong one. IPL choose to sponsor PPSL and Gus, but Gus "choose" to screw it up. Therefore, Gus has the ultimate responsibility. If Gus weren't a screwup, none of this would have happened, and we wouldn't be having this talk.

Could IGN have ultimately done more to ensure that they were dealing with someone reasonable? Yes, and in the future, they probably will. But saying that they're the most responsible party in this or somehow bear any significant culpability is coming dangerously close to "blaming the victim" territory.

On November 10 2011 12:03 SarsFlu wrote:
While I appreciate the candor and openness that IGN is showing, I don't feel a "We apologize and we'll still live up to our agreement" is enough in some regards. IGN not only sponsored the event, but made it an IPL Qualifier. To me that means some level of responsibility for problems at the event should be shouldered by IGN.

On November 10 2011 20:25 Elean wrote:
IGN is responsible.

When you associate your name to an event, you are more than just a sponsor. IGN lent their reputation.
Let's be honest, it is doubtful that this would have reached such proportions without the name of the IPL.
I'm sure many people got involved because they thought they were dealing with IGN, a serious compagny.

For instance, I don't think tastosis would have accepted to cast the event if it weren't an IPL event. People would probably have thought twice before paying for the hotel etc...


That being said, IGN remains the best compagny in the SC2 esport scene, and they should be praise for the transparency.

On November 10 2011 22:24 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I really think this is the wrong way when you think about it.

IGN/IPL is a sponsor. And one of the ways they contributed to help the event is add in that its a qualifier. As was mentioned by IGN, they didn't commission Tastosis. It was on Gus'/AZK's end that did this.

If pass on to the sponsors the responsibility of the fiasco that was the event and its consequences (expenses, liability etc) who in their right mind would sponsor then?

Sponsors give aid, be it financial or in kind. But when you are a sponsor, you are never responsibile for the event. If you look at ppsl.tv, the event was organized by Team AZK and PPSL group. It was never a partnership with IGN where IGN had a controlling say on the event. Granted they requested the date to be moved so as not to conflict with another qualifier they had scheduled, but that does not speak of control and immediately mean they are a partner.

Again, if you mention that sponsors should take responsibility, does that mean we blame every single one of the sponsor for also not doing their research into Gus et al? Surely given that these sponsors were tech gear, then that means they are in one way or another present as physical gear in the event.

For those that are not aware Globe is owned by the Ayala Corporation. A sponsor of the event, the supplier of the internet and technically the developer of the mall. So that is actually one of my guesses as to why they chose Glorietta Activity Center as the venue. Let's blame globe then for the shitty connection then? But we didn't even know what bandwidth was committed to the event and what means of connection they were supposed to have.

So other than trying to say IGN is to blame, do we also blame the local sponsors for any event for that matter that botches/fails miserably with the responsibility of cleaning the mess? I mention local because they are the ones closest to the "scene of the events that unfolded".

Unless there are writings to show that IGN is an official partner that should have taken part in the planning and execution of the event that was PPSL, I hardly think they should be made responsible based on the logic that "if IGN didn't sponsor then this mess wouldn't have happened."

Excerpt from IGN's post/message:

1) Why did we pick PPSL to run our SEA Qualifier for IPL 4?

When we were planning IPL 3, we heard that the PPSL was going to be doing an event that same weekend, with Tastosis and Korean players coming in. In order to allow players to play in both events, as well as making sure the community could watch both events, we entered in negotiations with the PPSL to shift their date for their event, even though their broadcast times would only slightly conflict with ours. We agreed to pay them to move their event and also we wanted to support the local Filipino eSports scene and thus went further and became a SPONSOR of their event. This was not a case of us picking them over anyone else.

On November 10 2011 23:48 SarsFlu wrote:


I know by now that we're just going to agree to disagree on this, but I don't see how you can say that IGN/IPL was just a sponsor. Nvidia and Razer were just sponsors. They just donated product/money (maybe not money, we aren't clear on that) to promote their product.

This screencap posted by peonsanders on reddit says it to me. This was an IPL SANCTIONED event. Not just sponsored. If you are a legitimate, international esports organization, and you make an event a qualifier for your main tournament, guess what? You have made that event a part of your tournament. It now carries your name.

If you had no say in the production or execution of this event, then it is your fault for not demanding and insuring that the standards you expect were not set beforehand. It is very clear that Gus and AZK CAUSED all the problems, one way or another, but a company like IPL should not have agreed to make an event an IPL qualifier solely on vague promises that the event would be taken care of.

Still, IPL and all the other sponsors don't 'owe' anything more than they originally agreed to. Its hard to blame them if that is all they do. But they 'could' do more, and I'm just putting it out there that it would be really awesome if they did.

On November 11 2011 01:37 Wren wrote:
This conversation about responsibility is absolutely hilarious. IGN is bound, of course, by it's contract w/ whatever entity they signed it with (AZK, PPSL, Gus, Amanda, or whoever). That said, they are absolutely free to simply walk away.

To bring up the old football analogy: Gatorade isn't responsible for anything if the NFL collapses, nor are any other sponsors. Perhaps look at college bowls. Visio isn't responsible if the Rose Bowl has a problem, nor is Tostidos for the Fiesta Bowl. They may decide that it is in their best interest to act, but such an act is not required.

IGN went far in their sponsorship, providing prizes in both cash and a seed in their tournament, as well as their stream's visibility. However, that does not change anything about their role as a sponsor, or add to their requirements.

On November 11 2011 02:39 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Well question then, do the other ipl4 qualifiers have another name? The event for me was the ppsl, just so happned to also grant a slot for ipl4 as a qualifier. That is a sponsorship in kind when pertainjng to the nature of it.

I still think as a sponsor, others are putting/expexting more from ign because they do these types of events but on the contray, this was powered by ppsl under azk. No where did it state that it was co-run by ign/ipl. If you thought that then you added into what was written. That is what i believe. A sponsor will remain a sponsor regardless of line of business to whatever type of event.

On November 11 2011 02:16 Jojo131 wrote:


When IPL decided sponsored the PPSL, the name of the event changed into "The IPL4 Pacific Qualifiers, powered by the PPSL". I think that entitles them to a bit more responsibility imo.

When Gatorade decided to sponsor the NFL, was it ever rebranded as "The Gatorade Cup, powered by the NFL" or something? I dont follow the NFL very much so I wouldn't know, but if not then this analogy doesn't pertain to IPL's situation. More likely to the other sponsors of the PPSL like Globe, nVidia, etc.

On November 11 2011 02:56 SarsFlu wrote:


This is the liquipedia page for the PPSL Event.

Granted, this is liquipedia and not 100% official documentation, but you look at it and tell me that all IGN did was sponsor the event. Before things went badly, EVERYONE was calling this an IPL event, not a PPSL event.

"The IGN ProLeague has partnered with Team AZK to host the IGN ProLeague 4 Pacific Region Qualifiers in Manila" is the first line printed on that page. Partnered, to hold an IGN ProLeague Qualifier. Yes, AZK was the event organizer. But was it an IPL event? I don't see how you can say no.

On November 10 2011 23:48 SarsFlu wrote:


I know by now that we're just going to agree to disagree on this, but I don't see how you can say that IGN/IPL was just a sponsor. Nvidia and Razer were just sponsors. They just donated product/money (maybe not money, we aren't clear on that) to promote their product.

This screencap posted by peonsanders on reddit says it to me. This was an IPL SANCTIONED event. Not just sponsored. If you are a legitimate, international esports organization, and you make an event a qualifier for your main tournament, guess what? You have made that event a part of your tournament. It now carries your name.

If you had no say in the production or execution of this event, then it is your fault for not demanding and insuring that the standards you expect were not set beforehand. It is very clear that Gus and AZK CAUSED all the problems, one way or another, but a company like IPL should not have agreed to make an event an IPL qualifier solely on vague promises that the event would be taken care of.

Still, IPL and all the other sponsors don't 'owe' anything more than they originally agreed to. Its hard to blame them if that is all they do. But they 'could' do more, and I'm just putting it out there that it would be really awesome if they did.

On November 11 2011 04:36 Wren wrote:

The bowl games feature the sponsors' names extremely prominently: "Tostidos Fiesta Bowl," "The Rose Bowl game, presented by Visio," "Chick-fil-A Bowl," etc.

Doesn't put them at any additional liability for the performance of the event.


LOL, I wrote that. Follow the reference to find: "To show our appreciation to Team AZK and the PPSL, we here at IGN eSports have decided to make the Philippine PRO Starcraft 2 League the official SEA qualifying event for our event after IPL: Origins." That's a sponsorship w/ a seed as a prize.

Don't forget that AZK refused to call the tournament by the name IGN gave it, SEA qualifiers, instead insisting on using words that more closely reflected the name of their league. There's absolutely no evidence that this was anything more than a sponsorship.

On November 11 2011 05:38 SarsFlu wrote:


Its funny you bring up the college football bowl system. Currently there are dozens of bowl games, and all of them have various sponsors like in your example. However, only six of those bowl games are official BCS bowl games, sanctioned by Division 1 College Football to determine its champion. All those other bowl games, while they are bowl games, don't mean as much, and don't make as much money.

Likewise, there are dozens of various SC2 tournaments across the world, most of them small because they're not an IPL, MLG, GSL etc. It just so happened that IPL decided to sanction this PPSL event as an IPL Qualifier, making it a more important event with the hope that it could also nurture a more lucrative situation down the road as SC2 grows

To me, IPL is a professional (e)sports league, meant to display starcraft 2 on as competitive a level as possible. How far does a professional sports league's responsibilities extend? Does it only go as far as to guarantee the legitimacy of the games played? Or does it go out to taking care that events where those games are held fall under their league guidelines? I'm arguing that running a sports league entails more responsibility than a sponsor of a sports event or league.

IGN could legitimately sponsor an event as a company/internet entity without making it an official IGN ProLeague event. But if you're going to add IPL onto it, then its going beyond just marketing IGN. You are making it an extension of your league.

At this point we're running around in circles beating dead horses, so I'll probably stop posting unless a new point is made. Lets hope Gus comes up with the funds that are due, but the more time passes without word, the less likely and harder it'll be to resolve the issue cleanly.

On November 11 2011 05:30 Fyrewolf wrote:


So then when MLG winners get seeded into the GSL, that makes MLG actually a GSL(sanctioned) event by your logic? So GSL actually took over MLG, there is no real MLG because they are actually just GSL events. That's not how it works though. Just because the winner gets seeded does not automatically equate the two groups into one. The PPSL is still the PPSL, and the IPL is the IPL, just the winner of the PPSL gets qualified for IPL. That does NOT mean that the PPSL is an IPL event, they are two separate groups. The i44Multiplay is the next regional organizer, but that doesn't mean that IGN now owns the Multiplay name or brand or anything, they are still separate groups.

The relationship is sponsors give money/equipment to the event, the organizer makes the event happen. If the event doesn't happen right, it's not the sponsor's fault for giving money. It's the organizer's fault for not organizing the tournament right. The responsibility of the sponsor is to make sure that their support is done properly and (for their own sake) well spent, NOT to be responsible for actually organizing the tournament.

IGN has already admitted their mistake in trusting Gus and learned their lesson from it. But their mistake was not the mismanaging of the tournament, their mistake was the misplacement of trust and support into Gus. The responsibility lies with the ORGANIZERS, not the SPONSOR. IGN (or any other organization sponsoring, Nvida, Razer, etc.) can never responsible for someone else's mistakes of mismanagement, but ONLY their own mistake of misplaced support and trust.

And that screencap means absolutely nothing. When you sponsor an event, your name gets plastered on everything. I don't believe that Coca Cola built the stadium, hired a team, and organized the football game when I see their logo on the sideline posters. That's just silly.

Admittedly IGN did make a mistake in their judgement, which they learned from and will be better for it in the future. But they were not the one's who did the mismanaging. To say they are responsible for the outcomes of someone else's mistake shifts the responsibility away from where it belongs, away from the guy that FAILED in his responsibility to organize the tournament right. You can't hold a higher up accountable for the failure of the lower down, but only hold them accountable for choosing the guy who failed.