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On October 24 2011 19:42 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:37 Tazerenix wrote:On October 24 2011 19:34 freewareplayer wrote:On October 24 2011 19:26 Vardant wrote:On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed. Nothing...right...it only forces you to get a Robo. That's a great idea. Cause a robo is such a terrible investment and 200 minerals for spawning units in the enemy base is not worth it? Get real man. Thats not even much different from the cost of getting hallucinute and sentry or a stargate and a phoenix. In fact a stargate + a phoenix are 300 minerals and 250 gas, a robo and a war prism is 400/100, look you just saved 150 gas, neat right? And no, you dont get forced to build a Robo, you build a robo if you want to warp in units in the enemy base. So when we want to warp into someones base going for a void ray allin against terran, we just throw on a robo and get a warp prism? oh thats cool. What about when we 5gate allin a zerg? oh yea, i'll just go 5gate robo and chuck in a warp prism. Thats fine.... Can you read a whole post too? Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
I dont get how people are complaining about this. All this does is nerf early cheese, everything else is unaffected. Warp prism gives you high ground vision and you can warp up just as fine as you can with a pylon.
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed. Im pretty sure 5 gate all in, as well as voidray all in falls under gimmicky and cheese, as well as early, i agree thats getting nerfed, and why not. 5 Gate all in can work just fine vs a Zerg without warping on the high ground, if you make him think its a 3 gate expo ( hello kiwikaki ).
So you think its just fine to remove protoss "gimicky strategies".
This is the equivalent of... somehow... making it so terran just can't do a 3rax, or just can't do a 1-1-1. Its unnecessary and abusive by the design team to just remove a problem that doesn't exist.
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as a protoss, i think this would completely solve pvp. the other repercussions are so situational as to be unimportant, any downside would be worth it.
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I would actually describe it as the removal of every way of effective offense except for deathball/Warp Prism. Way to go; nerf deathball, nerf other offensive options, nerf every cheese/all in, Game is balanced
Why? Protoss doesn't lose a single game anymore
Why? Nobody plays Protoss anymore.
Slight exaggeration, but still...
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On October 24 2011 19:50 Tazerenix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:42 freewareplayer wrote:On October 24 2011 19:37 Tazerenix wrote:On October 24 2011 19:34 freewareplayer wrote:On October 24 2011 19:26 Vardant wrote:On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed. Nothing...right...it only forces you to get a Robo. That's a great idea. Cause a robo is such a terrible investment and 200 minerals for spawning units in the enemy base is not worth it? Get real man. Thats not even much different from the cost of getting hallucinute and sentry or a stargate and a phoenix. In fact a stargate + a phoenix are 300 minerals and 250 gas, a robo and a war prism is 400/100, look you just saved 150 gas, neat right? And no, you dont get forced to build a Robo, you build a robo if you want to warp in units in the enemy base. So when we want to warp into someones base going for a void ray allin against terran, we just throw on a robo and get a warp prism? oh thats cool. What about when we 5gate allin a zerg? oh yea, i'll just go 5gate robo and chuck in a warp prism. Thats fine.... Can you read a whole post too? On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
I dont get how people are complaining about this. All this does is nerf early cheese, everything else is unaffected. Warp prism gives you high ground vision and you can warp up just as fine as you can with a pylon.
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed. Im pretty sure 5 gate all in, as well as voidray all in falls under gimmicky and cheese, as well as early, i agree thats getting nerfed, and why not. 5 Gate all in can work just fine vs a Zerg without warping on the high ground, if you make him think its a 3 gate expo ( hello kiwikaki ). So you think its just fine to remove protoss "gimicky strategies". This is the equivalent of... somehow... making it so terran just can't do a 3rax, or just can't do a 1-1-1. Its unnecessary and abusive by the design team to just remove a problem that doesn't exist.
Barracks after 3rd Command Centre!! THat'd be unfair 
On October 24 2011 19:52 FenneK wrote:
as a protoss, i think this would completely solve pvp. the other repercussions are so situational as to be unimportant, any downside would be worth it.
PvP (with the exception of TDA) was fixed last patch. This fixes it again, by nerfing Protoss (except, again, TDA). Beating a dead horse ...
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On October 24 2011 18:42 HowardRoark wrote:
Great change! Takes away boring gimmick play.
Which is what high level protoss dies to in like every high level game. Nothing done to fix that?
I saw no nerfs to terran, or the 1/1/1.
HOTS is like a giant baseball bat in the face of all protoss players. We got three new useless units, while terrans and zergs got some baller ones..
And now they remove high ground warp ins as a harassment opportunity. Classy -.-'
On October 24 2011 19:52 FenneK wrote:
as a protoss, i think this would completely solve pvp. the other repercussions are so situational as to be unimportant, any downside would be worth it.
The sad part is that those other 'unimportant situational repercussions' is what is the phenomenon of protoss early mid game harassment...
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On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using something like blink stalkers to blink into the main while using a pylon to reinforce, since it is not reliant on lack of scouting.
How do you blink in his main in the first place? Oh yeah people usually get an obs for that right, so you have a robo, make a warp prism maybe too? Solved you can now again use your blinkstalker tactic. Lets move on.
On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about placing a cannon on the high ground on Antiga shipyard to cover the watchtower. There is nothing cheesy about being able to place a cannon on the high ground on the 3rd in Xel'Naga to defend against infestors. This is a tough one... Let me think..
Maybe build a pylon up there too? With your XNC example your on 3 bases, which makes 100 minerals more for a pylon you will need anyway not much. Ok so you can still do this too.
On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using Voidrays to provide vision into your opponents base for warp ins as again, that's not something reliant on lack of scouting. These are legitimate tactical decisions that Blizzard is removing if this change goes through.
If you do this of one base it is cheese and an all in, simple as that, if you do it with having more than 1 base, you can afford a robo no prob, but you most likely already have it for detection.
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Dont like it at all. So p will get oracle for early game harass to compensate, ok. Since most games in pvz and pvt already involve an fe from both sides I wonder how effective that can be. When both bases are saturated this is not early game anymore. And if they are not saturated than blocking minerals is pretty useless unless you block many, and if you do you have to invest heavily in units which dont deal damage at all so the opponent can just roll out and kill you and your denial of his future income is pretty worthless.... I dont know so far this unit doesnt look good to me.
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Im a zerg player, and i dont really see the need for this change. Sure i run into this a few times, mostly pure chesse with cannon rushes and ofc i can talk about this in zvp, but i dont think it OP or a problem that needs to be fixed, If the toss kids out there want it then sure let them have it 
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I think this change is fine. High ground warp in + Nexus recall would be completely broken.
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On October 24 2011 19:55 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using something like blink stalkers to blink into the main while using a pylon to reinforce, since it is not reliant on lack of scouting. How do you blink in his main in the first place? Oh yeah people usually get an obs for that right, so you have a robo, make a warp prism maybe too? Solved you can now again use your blinkstalker tactic. Lets move on. Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about placing a cannon on the high ground on Antiga shipyard to cover the watchtower. There is nothing cheesy about being able to place a cannon on the high ground on the 3rd in Xel'Naga to defend against infestors. This is a tough one... Let me think.. Maybe build a pylon up there too? With your XNC example your on 3 bases, which makes 100 minerals more for a pylon you will need anyway not much. Ok so you can still do this too. Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using Voidrays to provide vision into your opponents base for warp ins as again, that's not something reliant on lack of scouting. These are legitimate tactical decisions that Blizzard is removing if this change goes through. If you do this of one base it is cheese and an all in, simple as that, if you do it with having more than 1 base, you can afford a robo no prob, but you most likely already have it for detection.
Do you know the definition of the word cheese? honestly? tell me the definition because I dont think you know what that word means.
Also, you would use hallucination or an obs for high ground vision. So A.) I am forced to get a robo, or b.) I am forced to delay my timing because I need to make a warp prism and an obs. Or just a warp prism, but then I don't have my obs.
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On October 24 2011 19:55 Cheerio wrote:
Dont like it at all. So p will get oracle for early game harass to compensate, ok. Since most games in pvz and pvt already involve an fe from both sides I wonder how effective that can be. When both bases are saturated this is not early game any more. And if they are not blocking minerals is pretty useless u block many, and if you do u have to invest heavily in units which dont deal damage at all so the opponent can just roll out and kill you and your denial of his future income is pretty worthless.... I dont know so far this unit doesnt look good to me.
Early game harassment unit that costs 200 gas and does not have an attack.
Whatcha gonna do against 1/1/1 and roach ling all in?
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On October 24 2011 18:35 deadmau wrote:
If they did this, but fixed toss, I wouldn't mind. Strange how they keep beating a dead horse though lol.
I agree.
there are a thousand ways to fix it..
they somehow picked the most obvious wrong way...
I agree with the feeling generated from all this.. is that Protoss is being unfairly treaten.
Protoss needs to rid 1 unit to get another.
but Terran being the only.. that didn't lose.. any unit. weird.
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i like the change, but they should increase the pylorange now a little bit^^
for high ground warpins p got warpprisms... i think thats good enough
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On October 24 2011 19:59 Kevoras wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 18:35 deadmau wrote:
If they did this, but fixed toss, I wouldn't mind. Strange how they keep beating a dead horse though lol. I agree. there are a thousand ways to fix it.. they somehow picked the most obvious wrong way... I agree with the feeling generated from all this.. is that Protoss is being unfairly treaten. Protoss needs to rid 1 unit to get another. but Terran being the only.. that didn't lose.. any unit. weird.
David Kim plays terran.
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On October 24 2011 20:00 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:59 Kevoras wrote:On October 24 2011 18:35 deadmau wrote:
If they did this, but fixed toss, I wouldn't mind. Strange how they keep beating a dead horse though lol. I agree. there are a thousand ways to fix it.. they somehow picked the most obvious wrong way... I agree with the feeling generated from all this.. is that Protoss is being unfairly treaten. Protoss needs to rid 1 unit to get another. but Terran being the only.. that didn't lose.. any unit. weird. David Kim plays terran.
David Kim is a GM Random player... He doesn't play terran.
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On October 24 2011 20:00 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:59 Kevoras wrote:On October 24 2011 18:35 deadmau wrote:
If they did this, but fixed toss, I wouldn't mind. Strange how they keep beating a dead horse though lol. I agree. there are a thousand ways to fix it.. they somehow picked the most obvious wrong way... I agree with the feeling generated from all this.. is that Protoss is being unfairly treaten. Protoss needs to rid 1 unit to get another. but Terran being the only.. that didn't lose.. any unit. weird. David Kim plays terran.
David Kim plays Random, and SUPPOSEDLY was actually playing Zerg in the BETA builds, which was one of the big reasons Zerg got nerfed so bad, because no one in-house could touch him.
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On October 24 2011 19:55 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using something like blink stalkers to blink into the main while using a pylon to reinforce, since it is not reliant on lack of scouting. How do you blink in his main in the first place? Oh yeah people usually get an obs for that right, so you have a robo, make a warp prism maybe too? Solved you can now again use your blinkstalker tactic. Lets move on. YOu just delayed your attack with 200 minerals and over a minute, next to being reliant on your opponent not sniping the prism. Yes. Fixed...
On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about placing a cannon on the high ground on Antiga shipyard to cover the watchtower. There is nothing cheesy about being able to place a cannon on the high ground on the 3rd in Xel'Naga to defend against infestors. This is a tough one... Let me think..
Maybe build a pylon up there too? With your XNC example your on 3 bases, which makes 100 minerals more for a pylon you will need anyway not much. Ok so you can still do this too.
Extra APM requirements, easier to snipe, harder to guard, not to speak of the extra time this costs
On October 24 2011 19:45 GhostFall wrote:
There is nothing cheesy about using Voidrays to provide vision into your opponents base for warp ins as again, that's not something reliant on lack of scouting. These are legitimate tactical decisions that Blizzard is removing if this change goes through.
If you do this of one base it is cheese and an all in, simple as that, if you do it with having more than 1 base, you can afford a robo no prob, but you most likely already have it for detection.
Says the Terran..!? So, Protoss can't ahve Cheese/All- In play that is scoutable WITH A FUCKING SCAN!, but it's fair that Protoss can't scout any of the thousands of Terran all- ins?
Just to name a few:
Cloakshees
2 port banshee
hellion drops
3 rax
1/1/1
And most of those aren't even All-in ahum MULE
Dumb, ignorant Terran. Start playing Random too so your claims make sence. NErfing ANY early agression of a race is BAD! This is just a free expansion for Terran while PRotoss has to be on his guard. meaning, Terran is ahead from the beginning of the game and needs to mess up for the game to be even?!?
[b]User was warned for this post
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On October 24 2011 20:01 Tazerenix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 20:00 Euronyme wrote:On October 24 2011 19:59 Kevoras wrote:On October 24 2011 18:35 deadmau wrote:
If they did this, but fixed toss, I wouldn't mind. Strange how they keep beating a dead horse though lol. I agree. there are a thousand ways to fix it.. they somehow picked the most obvious wrong way... I agree with the feeling generated from all this.. is that Protoss is being unfairly treaten. Protoss needs to rid 1 unit to get another. but Terran being the only.. that didn't lose.. any unit. weird. David Kim plays terran. David Kim is a GM Random player... He doesn't play terran.
If he plays random it's likely he rolled terran at least once , so he plays terran
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On October 24 2011 19:58 GhostFall wrote:
Also, you would use hallucination or an obs for high ground vision. So A.) I am forced to get a robo, or b.) I am forced to delay my timing because I need to make a warp prism and an obs. Or just a warp prism, but then I don't have my obs.
If you blink in his main a sentry is not of use to you, so hallucination will cost you 200 gas, while you only need 100 to get a robo, granted you need 200 minerals more, but gas > minerals, looks about even.
To the b point: The WP gives you high ground vision for the attack, no need to have vision x2 so how will this affect your timing?
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I don't get it, protoss is ridiculously underpowered, terran all-ins are a joke and they keep nerfing protoss?
Whats going on lol.
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EPT
