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In HOTS, low pylons no longer power high ground - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
October 24 2011 10:28 GMT
#101
This mostly fucks up DT+hallu builds. No high ground warp in means no way to get past that bunker+turret in front of the terran natural, and your costly investment in to harass has that much more of a chance to fail. Of course you could use a prism, but going for both DT tech and robotics off of one base is incredibly weak and leaves you with no units. This also hurts blink stalker builds, as you cannot reinforce an army that has been blinked into the main with zealots. 3 or 4 gate+void ray all ins vs. terran are pretty much negated too. 1rax expand is gonna be really tough to punish after this change
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
October 24 2011 10:28 GMT
#102
Oh God, this means that they're leaving the warpgate as it is while nerfing again its application...
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
October 24 2011 10:30 GMT
#103
Warp prism seems to be mandatory now.
The legend of Darien lives on
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
October 24 2011 10:30 GMT
#104
People really need to stop viewing HotS changes in a WoL mindset. The entire game is going to change, we know nothing about how the game will change and look in HotS. We also don't know if and what buffs protoss will get to compensate. Stop looking at this change as if it's a patch change for WoL and wait for HotS beta before you whine.
freewareplayer
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 10:37:53
October 24 2011 10:34 GMT
#105
On October 24 2011 19:26 Vardant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed.

Nothing...right...it only forces you to get a Robo. That's a great idea.


Cause a robo is such a terrible investment and 200 minerals for spawning units in the enemy base is not worth it? Get real man.
Thats not even much different from the cost of getting hallucinate and sentry or a stargate and a phoenix. In fact a stargate + a phoenix are 300 minerals and 250 gas, a robo and a warp prism is 400/100, look you just saved 150 gas, neat right?

And no, you dont get forced to build a Robo, you build a robo if you want to warp in units in the enemy base.
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
October 24 2011 10:35 GMT
#106
So much QQ it feels like I'm on reddit.

I only ever saw this used for gimmicky play. I think if this is implemented they should revoke the changes to pylon energy field range to what it was previously.
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
October 24 2011 10:37 GMT
#107
On October 24 2011 19:34 freewareplayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 19:26 Vardant wrote:
On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed.

Nothing...right...it only forces you to get a Robo. That's a great idea.


Cause a robo is such a terrible investment and 200 minerals for spawning units in the enemy base is not worth it? Get real man.
Thats not even much different from the cost of getting hallucinute and sentry or a stargate and a phoenix. In fact a stargate + a phoenix are 300 minerals and 250 gas, a robo and a war prism is 400/100, look you just saved 150 gas, neat right?

And no, you dont get forced to build a Robo, you build a robo if you want to warp in units in the enemy base.

So when we want to warp into someones base going for a void ray allin against terran, we just throw on a robo and get a warp prism? oh thats cool. What about when we 5gate allin a zerg? oh yea, i'll just go 5gate robo and chuck in a warp prism. Thats fine....
Shirolol
Profile Joined April 2010
England504 Posts
October 24 2011 10:38 GMT
#108
The only people who think this WON'T improve the over all level of play is random protoss players who use this to do some lame assed gimmick (DT in back of base etc.). Everyone else, however, can clearly see how this fixes a problem in the game at the moment.
Korean Netizen wrote: My ears died from the static and the music and my eyes died from the depressing gameplay and bad observer.
shammythefox
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom286 Posts
October 24 2011 10:39 GMT
#109
We never saw anything official on this, so i'm kinda hoping its a bug :F otherwise this is pretty dumb..
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
October 24 2011 10:39 GMT
#110
Woah... Gotta start getting used to this, perhaps making warp prisms more viable (more HP, bigger radius when activated) will help this
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
October 24 2011 10:39 GMT
#111
Seems like a reasonable change given the buff to the Warp Prism, but we have to remember nothing is concrete and they're probably just seeing how that change would work out if introduced in their test builds. I can't really think of a situation were a low-to-high ground pylon was used for anything other than some kind of cheese: cannons, dt rush, etc.
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
October 24 2011 10:41 GMT
#112
On October 24 2011 19:38 Shirolol wrote:
The only people who think this WON'T improve the over all level of play is random protoss players who use this to do some lame assed gimmick (DT in back of base etc.). Everyone else, however, can clearly see how this fixes a problem in the game at the moment.

Really, have you every gone for any sort of allin before ever? I use high ground warp in a LOT and i will allin once very... 15 games? only because i need to chill and do an allin after getting tired of standard play. This doesn't fix any problems, it completely bypasses them by removing the strategies causing the problems. And these strategies aren't even causing problems...
Apom
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
France656 Posts
October 24 2011 10:41 GMT
#113
On October 24 2011 19:35 Tektos wrote:
So much QQ it feels like I'm on reddit.

I only ever saw this used for gimmicky play. I think if this is implemented they should revoke the changes to pylon energy field range to what it was previously.

Agree. High ground warp-in is for gimmicky play, and high-ground building is for lame-ass canon rushes.

Also agree on reverting the power radius change, it would make sense in that context.
freewareplayer
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany403 Posts
October 24 2011 10:42 GMT
#114
On October 24 2011 19:37 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 19:34 freewareplayer wrote:
On October 24 2011 19:26 Vardant wrote:
On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed.

Nothing...right...it only forces you to get a Robo. That's a great idea.


Cause a robo is such a terrible investment and 200 minerals for spawning units in the enemy base is not worth it? Get real man.
Thats not even much different from the cost of getting hallucinute and sentry or a stargate and a phoenix. In fact a stargate + a phoenix are 300 minerals and 250 gas, a robo and a war prism is 400/100, look you just saved 150 gas, neat right?

And no, you dont get forced to build a Robo, you build a robo if you want to warp in units in the enemy base.

So when we want to warp into someones base going for a void ray allin against terran, we just throw on a robo and get a warp prism? oh thats cool. What about when we 5gate allin a zerg? oh yea, i'll just go 5gate robo and chuck in a warp prism. Thats fine....

Can you read a whole post too?
On October 24 2011 19:23 freewareplayer wrote:
I dont get how people are complaining about this. All this does is nerf early cheese, everything else is unaffected. Warp prism gives you high ground vision and you can warp up just as fine as you can with a pylon.

This changes nothing after the Protoss player has robo tech, so only the early gimmicky stuff is nerfed.

Im pretty sure 5 gate all in, as well as voidray all in falls under gimmicky and cheese, as well as early, i agree thats getting nerfed, and why not. 5 Gate all in can work just fine vs a Zerg without warping on the high ground, if you make him think its a 3 gate expo ( hello kiwikaki ).
zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 10:44:28
October 24 2011 10:43 GMT
#115
i don't know what the problem of low ground warpins are, they're very helpful in dealing with contains as you can actually, you know, flank...

edit: my bad, they haven't stopped the low ground warpins. never mind then, i don't really care.
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
Valroth
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand28 Posts
October 24 2011 10:43 GMT
#116
Lots of cheese lovers in this thread. Its a good change imo.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
October 24 2011 10:43 GMT
#117
On October 24 2011 19:41 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2011 19:38 Shirolol wrote:
The only people who think this WON'T improve the over all level of play is random protoss players who use this to do some lame assed gimmick (DT in back of base etc.). Everyone else, however, can clearly see how this fixes a problem in the game at the moment.

Really, have you every gone for any sort of allin before ever? I use high ground warp in a LOT and i will allin once very... 15 games? only because i need to chill and do an allin after getting tired of standard play. This doesn't fix any problems, it completely bypasses them by removing the strategies causing the problems. And these strategies aren't even causing problems...

That, next to keeping the opponent honest. They're nerfing one of the last ways for Protoss to punish heavy tech or Fast Expands!?

Just wait, they might put in a timer "No Protoss units before 20 minute mark, Dustins Children AHUM Pro Player" have trouble 1a winning" Hell, even the Hellion is reverted to a 1a moveunit?!

I just want an official statement + Explanation of this change
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Defrag
Profile Joined February 2010
Poland414 Posts
October 24 2011 10:45 GMT
#118
Looks like they are trying to enforce more warp prism play, which I like.

But imo they should implement old pylon range of 7 in that case.
GhostFall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States830 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 10:46:30
October 24 2011 10:45 GMT
#119
There is nothing cheesy about using something like blink stalkers to blink into the main while using a pylon to reinforce, since it is not reliant on lack of scouting.

It's something as an opponent you prepare for against the Protoss race.

There is nothing cheesy about placing a cannon on the high ground on Antiga shipyard to cover the watchtower. There is nothing cheesy about being able to place a cannon on the high ground on the 3rd in Xel'Naga to defend against infestors.

There is nothing cheesy about using Voidrays to provide vision into your opponents base for warp ins as again, that's not something reliant on lack of scouting. These are legitimate tactical decisions that Blizzard is removing if this change goes through.
Acnologia
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia410 Posts
October 24 2011 10:49 GMT
#120
The comments in this thread are so ignorant. it isn't just 4 gate and cannon rushes that are getting nerfed by this change. like the OP stated, as well as in many other examples, the ability to warp onto high ground is used all through the game, and stargate/dt proxy pylon play is heavily affected.
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