EPTi HATE the concept of the new protoss units. i am so disappointed, i cant describe it...
New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 348
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ilikeLIONZ
Germany427 Posts
i HATE the concept of the new protoss units. i am so disappointed, i cant describe it... | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
Couldn't they just have remade the carrier to do what the tempest does?? I don't like how they are taking out (imo) one of the most iconic units in SC1 personally =/ My thought exactly. I agree that the carrier was barely used in high level games, but if we are to get a fleet beacon unit that has an AoE against light air and a ground attack... Why not tweaking the carrier?I mean, you couldn't tweak the reaver into the colossus, the two units were too different. But here the only major difference seems to be the AoE. What does adding a "tempest" bring exactly? | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On October 23 2011 19:56 NeWnAr wrote: Dude you can. Chuck 2 in the mineral line so that once you pull out your SCVs you can shred the mutas to pieces. And one more thing. Doesn't Battle Hellion=Firebat???? Hasn't anyone realized that HotS Terran is turning into the Single Player compaign Terran in WoL? I mean, Warhound is practically a Goliath and the new Thor's Tychus' pet Odin? You sure the mutas wouldn't follow your scvs out of the mineral line or come back to attack your scvs as soon as you go back to mining? | ||
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JoFritzMD
Australia163 Posts
On October 23 2011 19:59 ilikeLIONZ wrote: i'm really really disappointed by the new protoss units, the capital ship seems not useful at all and the oracle is a joke by itself. i dont want paladin spells from world of warcraft cast on mineral patches, i need something to kill workers. the cost for that shitunit is ridiculous when you compare it to the hellion and its damage potential. i HATE the concept of the new protoss units. i am so disappointed, i cant describe it... On October 23 2011 19:59 Telenil wrote: My thought exactly. I agree that the carrier was barely used in high level games, but if we are to get a fleet beacon unit that has an AoE against light air and a ground attack... Why not tweaking the carrier? I mean, you couldn't tweak the reaver into the colossus, the two units were too different. But here the only major difference seems to be the AoE. What does adding a "tempest" bring exactly? I could not agree more with both of these. Sure the Oracle is nice for cutesie stuff but come late game who cares if one of their bases can't be mined. If, however, all of their workers are destroyed at that base...then they'll care. I am actually incredibly sad that they are taking out the carrier and the mothership. We had just started to see the mothership become more and more viable in some matchups. It was actually used well and added to the army. The same (sorta) goes with the carrier. It's not the best unit however I don't think it should be removed. I don't know if it's just nostalgia kicking it but the fact that it's being taken out made me so sad. The fact that I'll never be able to go 200/200 fully upgraded carriers in team games ever again makes me sad. I really really dislike how they're taking units out of the game. | ||
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berimbau
Australia22 Posts
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nick1689
Australia494 Posts
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atavus
France60 Posts
On October 23 2011 21:38 berimbau wrote: Something you guys arent really considering with the oracle is that it looks like it can be used really well with phoenix. Even if the mineral lock ability isnt that great (i actually think it looks alright), the building lock ability could be great with phoenix. at the moment the main issue with phoenix harass is static defense completely shuts it down unless you have a tonne of them. oracles allow you to disable the turrets/spores/cannons and freely pick up and pick off workers with phoenix. If oracles are fast enough to get in and out without being killed by stimmed marines or whatever, and if the energy cost is reasonable, this could work really well. Possibly but let's do theorycrafting. The disable spell cost energy : how much can you launch before getting deflected by defense again ? Not a lot if the oracle is recent. If you take in considreration the amount of gaz put in some oracle, it's 200 gaz per unit actually, meaning a rob bay or a colossi. Past the disable of some turret, the oracle effect on the enemy ground army will be null, your money is in phenix & oracle, you have delayed your robo by a good margin. Meaning : what prevent the opponent to just obliterate you after that nice harass ? | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
i see what they are trying to do with some of the units, and the direction is certainly the right one, anti-deathball and more micro, but the ideas and the designs of the units are like from some 12yo from the b.net forums  the protoss units are definitely the worst, their design doesnt fit at all with the feel of the protoss race. and for this they want to remove to perfectly fine units? terran is also terrible, the thor replacement looks like a transformer drawn up by some kid or out of some cheap copycat game, i already hated the concept of the marauder but this is going further in the same direction but as i said, i have faith in blizzard to eventually get it right again, im just surprised they even show something crap like this | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On October 23 2011 20:48 JoFritzMD wrote: I could not agree more with both of these. Sure the Oracle is nice for cutesie stuff but come late game who cares if one of their bases can't be mined. If, however, all of their workers are destroyed at that base...then they'll care. I am actually incredibly sad that they are taking out the carrier and the mothership. We had just started to see the mothership become more and more viable in some matchups. It was actually used well and added to the army. The same (sorta) goes with the carrier. It's not the best unit however I don't think it should be removed. I don't know if it's just nostalgia kicking it but the fact that it's being taken out made me so sad. The fact that I'll never be able to go 200/200 fully upgraded carriers in team games ever again makes me sad. I really really dislike how they're taking units out of the game. Irony being that the "tempest" in SC2:WoL was actually a Carrier that countered all ground units with a mega shield... and shot shurikens instead of interceptors... which were just interceptors with a melee attack.... I guess the really like the name Tempest, huh? Oracle templar drops should be devastating... oracle +2 archon drops even more so. Using Entomb makes their workers clump... and clumped worker snipes is exactly what Protoss needs fro some late-mid and late game harass! | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
The new toss units look fun, but very weak..would preferr if the replicator could take massive units (any non massive units cost more then 200-200?). The other new units look useful. Since protoss are already the underpowered race I really hope blizzard take this into consideration and do something before Protosss players give up on SC2 shortly after HOTS release. I was really looking forward to see what changes were in store for the HOTS release and almost jumping up and down with excitement over the prospect of ghosts getting removed, only thing im looking forward to from this expansion now is the EMP nerf they referred to. Warhound and viper look like they might be OP too. Would love to see Flux vanes and khaidarian amulet back along with faster build time on carriers and a buff. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
I long for BW TvP. | ||
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Chamie
Sweden40 Posts
However, the broodlord infestor composition went from being extremly strong versus protoss to even better. Also we don't have a counter for collosus in PvP, what I'm saying is basically that the void ray is to vulnerable to counter massive air units effectively. Currently you can pretty much only counter a 200/200 broodlord infestor army if you have a mothership with a nice vortex, or a enough time to make a heavy transition into air. With mothership and carriers removed, we still have the main unit to counter this (void rays), but void rays alone are usually quite easily killed by fungal + infested terrans or hydralisks. Protoss needs something like a viking, a long range anti air unit that is good against armored units. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
I'm really wondering, though, what alternative Zerg has to kill Shredders. I mean, What's the point of map control with ling/bling/muta if, when you look away for a second, Terran deploys 2-3 shredders and you can no longer deny his expo (right now you have until the PF morphs in to deny the expo). Will roaches be any good against them? Perhaps necessary? You'd probably already have roaches if the Terran was going mech, but anyway. | ||
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Aneon
14 Posts
However, I'm disappointed that zerg did not get any defensive buff in early game. Early game zerg 1v1 is definitely the hardest setup in the game in platinum and above. You need perfect larva inject and maximum droning, or you'll be out of the game after 10 mins. You have no error margins. Because of this you need perfect scouting to get away with the minimal amount of defense. If anything, zerg got nerfed, as they lose the overseer as an early scouting unit. Besides, early game pressure might get even tougher for zerg as you have to deal with units such as battle hellions, shredders, regenerating reapers and oracles. On the other hand, late game zerg will be a joy, with increased mobility and aggression. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
Warhound --> Goliath (+ anti-armor) Shredder --> Spider mine (without cloaking) Battle-hellion --> Firebat (except from factory) Tempest --> Corsair (except capital ship) Replicator --> Dark archon Viper --> Defiler (+ death grip) Swarm host --> Lurker (merged with BL) | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On October 23 2011 22:43 Aneon wrote: I think the new changes will be interesting and refreshing. However, I'm disappointed that zerg did not get any defensive buff in early game. Early game zerg 1v1 is definitely the hardest setup in the game in platinum and above. You need perfect larva inject and maximum droning, or you'll be out of the game after 10 mins. You have no error margins. Because of this you need perfect scouting to get away with the minimal amount of defense. If anything, zerg got nerfed, as they loose the overseer as an early scouting unit. Besides, early game pressure might get even tougher for zerg as you have to deal with units such as battle hellions, shredders, regenerating reapers and oracles. On the other hand, late game zerg will be a joy, with increased mobility and aggression. There's another POV you seem to forget. Zerg likes/needs an early lead to stabilize in the mid- game so they can throw money at their opponents: cost ineffective units. Zerg mid - late game gets buffed enormously, so you need less of a lead, so maybe you can make 3 more crawlers and be fine? It's just the supergreedy style of Zerg that is weak early on. Agressive Zergs are never really threatened... | ||
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oni_link
Germany165 Posts
note that scv's are also mechanical and i could just go from 4 bfh drop to 2 warhound drop to snipe out some scv's for sure. also if the shredder only does damage to bio units, a mech unit wont make them stop radiating which means bio and zerg are basically screwed against heavy shredder setups+siege tanks+ballions(battle hellions, you heard it here first!) | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50865 Posts
On October 23 2011 22:53 teamsolid wrote: Anyone else notice how most of the HoTS units are just variations of BW units/ability that got removed in WoL? Warhound --> Goliath (+ anti-armor) Spider mine --> Shredder (without cloaking) Firebat --> Battle-hellion (except from factory) Tempest --> Corsair (except capital ship) Replicator --> Dark archon Viper --> Defiler (+ death grip) Swarm host --> Lurker (merged with BL) well they couldn't just bring back all of them in their BW iterations,regardless of how we view them as hardcore players who just want tried and tested BW units back, we have to understand that they don't want to look like total failures as game designers and just give up by giving us those units. | ||
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exnomendei
Netherlands122 Posts
I'd love to see a Carrier as your 1-per-race unit as Protoss. It comes with a batallion of 8, say, Scouts, that can be rebuilt for 75/50 and are great versus ground, and are repaired while inside the Carrier. It also gets the Vortex spell. And for Zerg, a new unit that gets upgraded from the Brood Lord or the Corruptor, of which you can also make only one. It has an anti-caster ability (maybe disabling the spells for 10 seconds on any unit it attacks?) and is good against light air units, per example. What has been shown feels promising, except I don't really like the late-game focused units in the Protoss army. I feel like Protoss needed changes in the early game and or the early mid game, not just games where you have the luxury of going Starport builds. The only thing I missed is detection in Starport, is this attached to the Oracle? I think the unit's success or failure depends on it having Detection or not. | ||
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Brotocol
243 Posts
On October 23 2011 22:58 BLinD-RawR wrote: well they couldn't just bring back all of them in their BW iterations,regardless of how we view them as hardcore players who just want tried and tested BW units back, we have to understand that they don't want to look like total failures as game designers and just give up by giving us those units. I don't get how this is acceptable. You're saying this is all a matter of pride? There are people whose careers depend on this game... | ||
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