EPTThis almost feels like a troll to be honest. Give Hydras a speed upgrade when everyone has insane AoE to destroy them instantly already.
Meanwhile Zerg lack of anti-air in the early game, still not addressed.
New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 301
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sitromit
7051 Posts
This almost feels like a troll to be honest. Give Hydras a speed upgrade when everyone has insane AoE to destroy them instantly already. Meanwhile Zerg lack of anti-air in the early game, still not addressed. | ||
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Shurayuki
Germany2665 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:42 Laids wrote: I think if the Shredder makes it to beta, it will quickly be removed, the one thing Terran did not need was more harass potential and the ability to drop a Shredder into someones mineral line and wipe it out would take next to no skill. At the end of the day it's pretty pointless discussing what could be op or up, it's not even beta yet :/ and/or drop them to camp the choke/production buildings = fun fun fun but the fact that people here are shouting OP! at everything seems like blizzard made a step in the right direction, they have to imagine the most outrageous overpowered shit and try to distribute it as evenly as possible, the only reason BW worked was because each race has totally brokenly overpowered units | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:37 Alpina wrote: It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense. But if the energy cost was increased, it would make Protoss choose between having very strong harass or a powerful deathball, since less chronos means more resources you have to spend on production facilities. The problem comes at lategame, where chrono boost loses its usefulness and being able to recall your huge deathball is a tremendous advantage. The stun period might carry a little bit of risk in big fights, as it might be better to just move back instead of letting your units do nothing but get shelled before a recall, but still. | ||
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atavus
France60 Posts
On October 22 2011 22:48 Rutok wrote: Protoss whining is nothing new.. they have so much stuff they dont even use ist not funny. And until they get a "nuke the enemy base from orbit" button it will continue. Shure, you may not get flashy new units.. but did you stop for a second to think about what can be achieved with what you get? The recall ability means you will almost never again loose an expansion. It also means you will never loose your army due to an unfortunate engagement. You can even use this to endlessly draw out the game, simply teleport your army from one expansion to the next to flank, then back to base to defend. Then in your base you can do this "make every building into a cannon" thing, park your army there and go watch some porn while the enemy army melts. The oracle is gonna be an awesome harrass unit. It completely negates mining! Remember how you raged when you found that the terran built his pf at the gold and dropped mules there? Well.. mules dont have an attack.. so if he wants to mine again he needs to bring a bit of his army over. Oh.......... Give me on unit protoss player don't use (except carrier & mothership for various obvious reasons). By the way i don't see any protoss player complaning against mass recall. But oracle do feel lame; so we can harass but we can't kill scv great news. Yeah an only harass spell caster without ANY DPS capacity that cost 200 das at the moment (this may change). The tempest as Blizzard present it; it's just an anti mass muta. Okay as protoss we do miss a potent Air AoE but a late game unit for that seems pretty........urghhhhh. The replicant do like cool : but to me have two problems. One : I don't see how this will not be nerf as hell before the release, if it isn't deleted. Two : Come on: I want a protoss copicat, I want a freakin son of Auir. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:44 BanelingXD wrote: Browder and Kim come off with the same kind of smug douchiness you might encounter at an Anime convention. Anyone who has ever been dumbfounded by an elitist geek knows what I'm talking about. They haven't solved any of the fundamental problems of Protoss and seem to be at a loss as to how they can even do it. Ive been saying all along, SC2 was flawed from day one because they designed a Terran centric singleplayer game with high cool factor and left multiplayer as an afterthought. Now they're paying the price. SC2 was never built with balance between races or good roles for the base units in mind. I am frankly astonished that they thought replacing overcosted carriers with a hard counter to mutas at the same tech level would do anything to improve PvZ. Horrible +1. Like I said, Browder already admitted that they're going to prioritize "cool" marketable units in HotS. They aren't thinking about making the game genuinely interesting. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
To me, the Replicant seems too hard to balance to be worth it. It might well be amazing in some situations, but i'd rather have an actual Protoss unit that kills ghosts and infestors, rather than infestors and ghosts themselves (random example). | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:41 Fig wrote: If they ever do take it out of the game, they would have to give toss a ton of compensation, because right now, without nexus recall I won't have any reason to play toss in HotS, and neither will most toss. Mass recall on nexus is the only thing that protosses have to be really happy about. The units are a joke compared to what zerg got, and what terran already has. Maybe Blizzard's plan is to keep toss units weak, but have a bunch of abilities to make them the most annoying race in history. If protoss needs something better it's alright for me, just this mass recall thing is so stupid, I imagine everyone going to use it like in every single game in every battle.. Maybe it they limit its use for just 10 units or something, so you can mass recall defend vs. drops, but complete army retreat in seconds looks very bad for me. | ||
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Brotocol
243 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:47 dump wrote: +1. Like I said, Browder already admitted that they're going to prioritize "cool" marketable units in HotS. They aren't thinking about making the game genuinely interesting. I agree, except for 1 small adjustment to BanelingXD's post. Blizzard isn't paying the price. eSports viewers are paying the price. | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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Stijx
United States804 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:47 Hider wrote: Reg. the oracle. Its kind of similar to the harass function of the banshee in the harass way as the banshee doesn't really have any "uh uh " moments as well. And though i dont think the banshee is extremely well designed its still much better than the oracle, as the banshees main function isn't just for ahrass, but it can be used in fight as well, and the kiting abillites of the banshees rewards microes from both players as well. The oracle main ability is this extremely boring harass technique that doesn't seem to reward good micro. This is fair criticism, and I actually agree. I suppose to make oracle interesting, you've to be constantly flying around the enemy base, scouting and denying tech/production. Of course you'll need a bunch of them then to have enough energy to sustain that. | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:52 jinixxx123 wrote: i dont think people realize that the oracle moves really fast around the map, like the speed of a hellion IN THE AIR. I know protoss players ask for the reaver alot, but really, how do you propose this in the current game? reavers are really slow slugs, so that means they need shuttles, how will a shuttle WITH warpin and reaver big aoe blast damage be balanced?, i can see that being ridiclously OP against zergs, For terrans on the other hand, the reaver will be useless, how is that thing going to harass with a viking around to shoot down the shuttle? so in both cases its a failure. With the orcale however, the speed of that thing means its going to be SOOOOO fucking hard to stop with viking and unless zerg make corrupter or something, zerg will feel the wrath of a screwed up economy . Come on people, does blizzard really need to add another MEGA aoe unit to protoss? , i like these proposed changes instead From the vid, it doesn't seem like oracles are any faster than speed warp prisms. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:47 dump wrote: +1. Like I said, Browder already admitted that they're going to prioritize "cool" marketable units in HotS. They aren't thinking about making the game genuinely interesting. Yeh their protoss new units are just plain stupid. However when David Kim talked about tvp and the problems in that MU he seemed like he got it. I kinda have this feeling that Dustin browder is the problem. He is the guy who prioritizes "cool units " rather than good design play, and he doesn't understand what good design is. The protoss are given new units that are boring, and doesn't really change how the race plays. At least tvp will be more interesting as they will be playing vs mech, but it still could be so much better. Why is the collosus unchanged? Why haven't they tried to come with a solution for making forcefields to not be a micro killer? Why didn't they get toss an interesting harass unit that requires skills to use optimally, and skills to counter? The warp gate tech is kinda problematic as well. It would be so much easier to balance the game if they just removed offensive warp tech from the game, and hence forced toss players to use warp prism for that purpose. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:50 Stijx wrote: So Protoss got one new unit and two replacements? Considering how often carriers and the mothership were used, it's not that big of a deal. | ||
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Brotocol
243 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:53 Teoita wrote: From the vid, it doesn't seem like oracles are any faster than speed warp prisms. It's pretty much the scrapped overseer. Anyone remember "overseers can poop on your minerals to prevent you from mining" from pre-beta? Yeah... | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:53 Teoita wrote: From the vid, it doesn't seem like oracles are any faster than speed warp prisms. You act as if speed warp prisms are slow. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:47 Teoita wrote: I was talking about the tech-harass aspect of the oracle, more than blocking mineral patches from being mined. Delaying stim, siege mode, seeing greater spire timings etc has potential. I'm not saying it's the most amazing thing ever, but it's not -that- bad. To me, the Replicant seems too hard to balance to be worth it. It might well be amazing in some situations, but i'd rather have an actual Protoss unit that kills ghosts and infestors, rather than infestors and ghosts themselves (random example). Sure the unit can be usefull. The reaper can be usefull as well at times, and the overseer can be usefull as well. But usefull units = / good game design. The oracle is bad game design. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:42 GreyMasta wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkmi0/full_breakdown_of_the_sc2_multiplayer_panel/ At least it comes with the Ability Upgrades: Replicant A new unit that's being built in the Robotics Facility. It's (only) ability is to duplicate a unit that's currently visible on the map. What's interesting to note about this unit is that if you replicate i.e. a banshee, and the terran player doesn't have cloak researched - your replication will have cloak. In other words; whenever you replicate a unit, you'll have all the available upgrades for that unit. Tanks will have siegemode, ravens will have seeker missile etc. It costs 200/200 and 4 supply, so if you replicate a marine, you'll use 4 supply to hold a 1 supply unit. You can indeed replicate workers and build structures with the new worker. Generally speaking, it is probably never worth spending 200/200 for a full energy Sentry, that seems stupid right? But I'm sure Protoss players have been in situations where they would give even 300/300 resources for just a full energy Sentry right then and there because it would save their lives. Even though on paper it probably is never worth replicating a unit, given the right situation the unit can easily be worth significantly more to a player than what it is worth on paper. You could always say, "what if you just made that extra sentry from the start and save your self 150/100!"? Well, there are a lot of things in Starcraft that you cannot predict but this unit helps you react to situations just like that. Maybe it was a Sentry in this game, maybe in the next it might be a DT, or a full Energy Infestor. or even an Immortal, who knows really. Instead of the typical trading of resources for army strength, you are trading resources for opportunity--not everyone will always be able to take advantage of every opportunity but those who can will most likely always be rewarded beyond their initial investment You might laugh at someone replicating a Marine, but given a situation if Replicating that one Marine was what someone needed to turn a battle then you can bet they were glad to spend that 4 pop and 200/200 on that Marine!  Sure it will be highly unlikely, and you know what? I bet the VAST majority of "epic" Replicant plays will all be unlikely and all be different, but at the end of the day they were all worth what ever the Replicant replicated into. What the Replicant is replicated into and how it is used will almost be guaranteed to be different from player to player--it might be a Ghost to get a clutch EMP, or a Raven for a PDD, or maybe even an Orcale for some clutch Phase shift action, the only limit to this unit is its initial investment and the obvious limitation that it cannot replicate Massive units. The Strength of the unit will come down to intelligent play rather than the standard attack move unit that is balanced purely on numbers. | ||
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