EPTAnother Neural Parasite Change. - Page 45
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rift
1819 Posts
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Saiton
Sweden467 Posts
On September 16 2011 15:26 vol_ wrote: Blizzard are negotiating with us zergs, we can't back down now - Give us 8 range in exchange for no rage on the official forums, that's our final offer! Deal? Denied. Your rage is what spurs extra entertainment to my morning coffee. I agree with CatZ on this, the right way to balance the game is not to cater to the incredible amounts of whine regarding the Infestor on forums just because people are too bad/cba to find a way to deal with them. I used to be an Infestor-QQer, but instead if learned to abuse the mobility of the blinkstalkers and the range of my Colossus. I'm sorry to say, but HT's are not the way to deal with the infestor in a main vs main army clash(they're never gonna get in range anyway) (800 Master EU Protoss, since everybody seem to be obsessed with who's got rank enough to be allowed to speak their mind.) | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On September 16 2011 03:44 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Why not just make infestors melee units? LOL well hes right in his oppinion and it has a lot of good reasons, sure there are also some against but no reason to troll right ? | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
On September 16 2011 13:19 Elean wrote: One day people will realize that the problem isn't NP. Being able to NP a colossus may be overpowered, but it's only because the colossus itself is overpowered. It's just another exemple of Blizzard refusing to adress the real issue with protoss. Nerf the damage of the superunit (colossus), and buff the damage of the basic units (gateway), and suddendly NP is completely fine without changing its range. This would also help in PvT, and enable protoss to harass in PvZ... Yeah you can buff the warp prism, but in the end the problem is that a handfull of gateway units just don't do enough damage. I agree in that it would help PvT but a late game warp in round of zealots against zerg is already pretty good, they kill hatches surprisingly fast with +3 weapons. Buffed gateway units would be pretty broken against zerg and would incite even more 4/6 gate timings which noone wants. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
1) make fungal slows instead of stopping units. 2)make np non-channeling, have a initial 50mana cast cost and a continuing mana cost of 10 per second. if infestor stands still they last for as long it used to. if infestor moves, mana deplete and additional 10mana faster per second. solves the problem of fungal giving it a small nerf and makes np more versatile | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On September 16 2011 14:16 Lumi wrote: Yeah this is lame.. blizz mentality is what.. "We're being merciful now that we aren't doing the dumbest thing ever with NP, and because of that, we don't even need to test it out" This is NOT the kind of patching that I know and appreciate Blizzard for. They usually have gentle nudges. Somebody came at this patch with an axe instead of a scalpel. 8 Would have been significantly better.. this doesn't just help colossi to outrange, but also for feedbacks to dominate even more, and for forcefield to become significantly better, and for my infestors to get psi-stormed whenever they do neural still. Oh and it's worthless vs tank play now, and Thors actually remain pretty beefy (despite everyone saying "this will still get thors" because nobody goes pure thor - they go mech and the outranging of tanks vs this now really makes it a joke of a would-be solution. And now Terran picks up a huge boost in even more viable playstyles, whoopee. This looks like a mess of non-consideration and non-testing. You have a PTR and then you basically don't use it. Thumbs down Blizzard! I agree. 9 to 7 is actually really huge. Might've been a good idea to test 8 first if they were going to change the range. But then again I don't really understand why they felt the need to nerf it in the first place. Maybe none of us does, could be related to HotS or something no one is seeing. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
we heard it all before, in beta, right? seriously, david kim is doing bad. but at least not as stupid as with thorkill in 1.3.3... | ||
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maahes`ra
United States255 Posts
This is a pretty hard nerf to an as-of-yet relatively untested unit. Shameful. | ||
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JustinL
Australia58 Posts
Against a stalker+collosus army, collosus are not right at the front of the protoss army. They are at least 1 range away from the front line of stalkers in an engagement. Infestors will move forward to neural parasite collosi, but they will need to get within 6 range of the stalkers to do so. A stalkers attack range is 6, so stalkers will automatically attack the infestors with a simple attack move command. To me it seems that some posters think the range change will encourage more micro and better positioning in engagements, but I think a range of 7 is too low for this to be the case. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On September 16 2011 15:53 JustinL wrote: People are saying that changing the range to 7 will place more emphasis on the positioning of the infestor and allow players use their micro to kill the infestors using neural parasite, effectively increasing the scope for skill to be used in battle. I think people are underestimating how short the range will actually be. Against a stalker+collosus army, collosus are not right at the front of the protoss army. They are at least 1 range away from the front line of stalkers in an engagement. Infestors will move forward to neural parasite collosi, but they will need to get within 6 range of the stalkers to do so. A stalkers attack range is 6, so stalkers will automatically attack the infestors with a simple attack move command. To me it seems that some posters think the range change will encourage more micro and better positioning in engagements, but I think a range of 7 is too low for this to be the case. It seems that Blizzard only wants it to be viable if you have your infestors catch the rear of an army where the colossus are and the army is on move command. I really feel even at 9 range, all it takes is for the colossus to focus fire the infestors if they are trying to NP. I've never had a problem with NP and losing all my colossus this way. The moment I see the tendrils I start target firing with my colossus. I put face to palm after seeing some pro players fall to this. If this is for the sake of balance, I'd rather see a higher energy cost. Balanced or not, I don't want more parts of the game being essentially or literally removed from the game. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
You could use micro to counter infestors before.... Then they made blink not work while fungaled. You could still do it anyways, by microing collo to shoot the infestors, but its a little bit harder. | ||
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deMONk
45 Posts
It's funny how protoss complain about infestors being zerg's go to unit, but colossi is used in EVERY matchup | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On September 16 2011 15:35 prOpSaiton wrote: Denied. Your rage is what spurs extra entertainment to my morning coffee. I agree with CatZ on this, the right way to balance the game is not to cater to the incredible amounts of whine regarding the Infestor on forums just because people are too bad/cba to find a way to deal with them. I used to be an Infestor-QQer, but instead if learned to abuse the mobility of the blinkstalkers and the range of my Colossus. I'm sorry to say, but HT's are not the way to deal with the infestor in a main vs main army clash(they're never gonna get in range anyway) (800 Master EU Protoss, since everybody seem to be obsessed with who's got rank enough to be allowed to speak their mind.) Idra and I both disagree with you about your HT comment. I feel HT are what you should be going against infestors like around 180 supply, otherwise nothing will stop chain fungals. (700 Master KR zerg) | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On September 16 2011 15:40 deathzz wrote: imo maybe 1) make fungal slows instead of stopping units. 2)make np non-channeling, have a initial 50mana cast cost and a continuing mana cost of 10 per second. if infestor stands still they last for as long it used to. if infestor moves, mana deplete and additional 10mana faster per second. solves the problem of fungal giving it a small nerf and makes np more versatile You sir are smarter than the whole of Blizzard. Props. Except for the part where you said "if infestor moves, mana deplete". This can't happen with the way infestors work in control groups. My suggestion: - If infestor gets feedback it cancels NP. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
On September 16 2011 16:16 arbitrageur wrote: You sir are smarter than the whole of Blizzard. Props. Except for the part where you said "if infestor moves, mana deplete". This can't happen with the way infestors work in control groups. My suggestion: - If infestor gets feedback it cancels NP. erm i meant with np, u can move the infestor that is np-ing something. just that u can't do it on a long term basis. maybe once u load it into a ovie or burrow, it cancels the spell also. so even if u are controlling all ur infestors off 1 hotkey, it will still work i guess. might be a bit op-ed. i dunno | ||
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Supdude
244 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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Skillver
Austria1309 Posts
On September 16 2011 16:38 Supdude wrote: why are they nerfing NP... if it's OP, you would have seen more players using it right? you see it all the time | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
What's the point of the PTR then?! It seems to me like they were going to do this 9-->7 range change anyway, but posted a more severe nerf on PTR to start an angry mob, which they can semi-appease now with the original intended change. Stupid stupid stupid blizzard. Frustrating fans every day. | ||
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SirAnnihilate
Great Britain16 Posts
This should promote better unit positioning and control, it will of course make Collosus much more powerful in the PvZ matchup, but perhaps not uncontrollably so. This will make Infestor micro much more important in big engagements. Not the perfect Infestor change by far, but Blizzard obviously feels the unit needs reworking and this is just one of many ways to do it. Sadly, making the change live before the PTR is unwise and my post may be invalidated once we see the change in action - this post is nothing but preliminary thoughts and theory-crafting because Blizzard has decided to make it impossible to evaluate anything else. | ||
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