Another Neural Parasite Change. - Page 59

On September 19 2011 07:21 ShamTao wrote:


I would like to challenge this idea a little bit, because while the options are there, just consider that all of those splash damages are pretty conditional. For instance,

-How often are nukes used in your large engagements? Possibly more, but not that much
-How often are hunter seeker missiles used? High energy cost, high resource cost for its unit
-Hellions only do lots of good, splash damage to specific units, so I'd say they're a little more situational
-Planetary Fortresses rarely participate in large army-army conflicts

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the options you've presented but it's very rare that you're going to see A terran rushing an enemy with a simultaneous PF attack, EMP, nuke, Hunter seeker missile, sieged tank, hellion, thor mix. That's just not a practical application. I feel like you're moreso pointing out that Terran's AOE options are spread out through more tech routes, making AoE attacks more accessible in a greater variety of armies.

On September 19 2011 06:24 Reithan wrote:
EMP isn't even 100% of the problem. Terran just has more numerous, easier to use, easier to tech and more powerful Area-of-Effect crowd-control options than the other two races COMBINED

AoE for Toss:
1 Colossus
2 HT
3 Archon

Zerg
1 Baneling
2 Ultra (LOL)
3 Infestor

Terran
1 EMP
2 Nuke
3 HSM
4 Hellion
5 SeigeTank
6 Thor (AA)
7 PF

Check this out: Every single Factory unit has an AOE attack, The barracks has 2 AOE attacks available (from 1 unit), And thei freaking BASE can be upgraded with an AoE attack. The starport has an AoE available. And on top of that, all their units (Except the banshee and maruader?) have smart-fire which is about a hair away from being as good as AoE for crowd control.

Zerg has NO smart-fire units, mostly melee units and horrible AoE units.
Toss has melee and No smart fire, except for the immortal. Though, their AoE units are awesome.

So, anytime it turns into mass vs mass combat - which is almost any SC2 game...Terran SHOULD be at an advantage.

On September 22 2011 01:36 FLuE wrote:


This sums up basically the game and Terran no matter which game factor you are looking at.

I've said this for a while now, to the point that discussing some of these changes and the game is almost laughable. We are all playing a game that is probably about 75% complete. It is pretty obvious that because terran was the focus of the single player, that has trickled into the multiplayer and allowed terran to be the only really complete race currently. You can just tell by the sheer number of options terran has, from the number of units, to spells, to upgrades, to intricate details that deal with building placement a ton of energy went into developing Terran.

Then it was like "hey guys we need to release the game in 2 months, Terran and single player look good just bang out zerg and toss quick so we can get the game out and we'll worry about those races with the next expansions."

At least with broodwar, we are all playing partially complete races. With SC2 it is 1 complete and 2 half finished.

I mean look at all the Command Center alone can do... lift, pick up scvs, turn into a PF, drop mules, drop supply depots, scan. I mean that is one complete and awesome building right there. Someone put time into really thinking about a structure that Terran could use to its fullest. Look at the nexus. It is like, "Um... give it a thing to make it make things faster. Ok cool lets move on."

So we can talk about all this till we are blue in the face. Short of just flat out making all terran units worse across the board Terran is going to be ahead until we get the expansions. They just have more options, which lead to more creativity, more counters, it is tougher to scout, and they have an answer for anything.

I mean just look at how much terran game play has evolved from Beta to now. They've got SO many build orders, and tricks with positioning, and drop play, and timings with building switches.

Zerg it is like "hey we figured out to early expand and infestors are good. Take a 3rd fast. Maybe baneling drops will work." Toss has basically played the same nothing new at all. Both races are doing everything they can creatively but they just don't have all the tools.

The worse part of it is they keep trying to balance the game with the ZvP(NP change) and the PvP(4 gate changes and vision) meanwhile Terran just keeps pulling further ahead.

On September 19 2011 06:24 Reithan wrote:
EMP isn't even 100% of the problem. Terran just has more numerous, easier to use, easier to tech and more powerful Area-of-Effect crowd-control options than the other two races COMBINED

AoE for Toss:
1 Colossus
2 HT
3 Archon

Zerg
1 Baneling
2 Ultra (LOL)
3 Infestor

Terran
1 EMP
2 Nuke
3 HSM
4 Hellion
5 SeigeTank
6 Thor (AA)
7 PF

Check this out: Every single Factory unit has an AOE attack, The barracks has 2 AOE attacks available (from 1 unit), And thei freaking BASE can be upgraded with an AoE attack. The starport has an AoE available. And on top of that, all their units (Except the banshee and maruader?) have smart-fire which is about a hair away from being as good as AoE for crowd control.

Zerg has NO smart-fire units, mostly melee units and horrible AoE units.
Toss has melee and No smart fire, except for the immortal. Though, their AoE units are awesome.

So, anytime it turns into mass vs mass combat - which is almost any SC2 game...Terran SHOULD be at an advantage.

On September 19 2011 06:24 Reithan wrote:
EMP isn't even 100% of the problem. Terran just has more numerous, easier to use, easier to tech and more powerful Area-of-Effect crowd-control options than the other two races COMBINED

AoE for Toss:
1 Colossus
2 HT
3 Archon

Zerg
1 Baneling
2 Ultra (LOL)
3 Infestor

Terran
1 EMP
2 Nuke
3 HSM
4 Hellion
5 SeigeTank
6 Thor (AA)
7 PF

Check this out: Every single Factory unit has an AOE attack, The barracks has 2 AOE attacks available (from 1 unit), And thei freaking BASE can be upgraded with an AoE attack. The starport has an AoE available. And on top of that, all their units (Except the banshee and maruader?) have smart-fire which is about a hair away from being as good as AoE for crowd control.

Zerg has NO smart-fire units, mostly melee units and horrible AoE units.
Toss has melee and No smart fire, except for the immortal. Though, their AoE units are awesome.

So, anytime it turns into mass vs mass combat - which is almost any SC2 game...Terran SHOULD be at an advantage.

On September 22 2011 01:36 FLuE wrote:
This sums up basically the game and Terran no matter which game factor you are looking at.

I've said this for a while now, to the point that discussing some of these changes and the game is almost laughable. We are all playing a game that is probably about 75% complete. It is pretty obvious that because terran was the focus of the single player, that has trickled into the multiplayer and allowed terran to be the only really complete race currently. You can just tell by the sheer number of options terran has, from the number of units, to spells, to upgrades, to intricate details that deal with building placement a ton of energy went into developing Terran.

Then it was like "hey guys we need to release the game in 2 months, Terran and single player look good just bang out zerg and toss quick so we can get the game out and we'll worry about those races with the next expansions."

At least with broodwar, we are all playing partially complete races. With SC2 it is 1 complete and 2 half finished.

I mean look at all the Command Center alone can do... lift, pick up scvs, turn into a PF, drop mules, drop supply depots, scan. I mean that is one complete and awesome building right there. Someone put time into really thinking about a structure that Terran could use to its fullest. Look at the nexus. It is like, "Um... give it a thing to make it make things faster. Ok cool lets move on."

So we can talk about all this till we are blue in the face. Short of just flat out making all terran units worse across the board Terran is going to be ahead until we get the expansions. They just have more options, which lead to more creativity, more counters, it is tougher to scout, and they have an answer for anything.

I mean just look at how much terran game play has evolved from Beta to now. They've got SO many build orders, and tricks with positioning, and drop play, and timings with building switches.

Zerg it is like "hey we figured out to early expand and infestors are good. Take a 3rd fast. Maybe baneling drops will work." Toss has basically played the same nothing new at all. Both races are doing everything they can creatively but they just don't have all the tools.

The worse part of it is they keep trying to balance the game with the ZvP(NP change) and the PvP(4 gate changes and vision) meanwhile Terran just keeps pulling further ahead.

On September 22 2011 02:15 Xanbatou wrote:You have no idea what smart-fire is do you? There is no such thing as "smart-fire". All units will not waste shots on something if they know it will die. The only unit that has obvious smart fire is the siege-tank, because it does so much damage, is so long ranged, and its attack is instant. Anything with an instant attack "smart-fires". This includes banelings, by the way.

On September 22 2011 07:15 sanguin wrote:


pretty much sums up the story of sc2 balance, most of the "terran op TT" comes from theese reasons basically - /end of balance threads

so anyway i just don't get the reason behind np nerf. i think it was fine lol (toss/random here)

lets see a tvz for example: terran comes with bio + thor... u try to np thor wich is behind the bio (coz its slower)- stim, and infestor dead. only chance is if u can manage to get infestor behind the terran - wich is not reallyprobalbe: scan/air presence. and there's emp/snipe