|
On August 17 2011 17:18 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:15 lee365 wrote:On August 17 2011 16:51 Ruscour wrote:
I don't usually defend NASL, but what the Koreans are asking for is insane. Disappointing that this happened, and I feel sorry for Xeris and the rest of the NASL staff. All the Koreans are asking is to be treated the same way GOM and MLG treat their overseas players. (Food, Housing,Travel) Actually, I was under the impression that GOM only provides housing and travel to and from the airport. Travel costs to get to Korea and food costs come directly out of the pockets of the players' teams. (Correct me if I'm wrong, though.)
At least for the MLG deal you're wrong. For other players I don't know (afaik the tourney that got Sase there was also completely paid for, but not sure who paid).
I don't know the details of Dreamhack, IEM and other international tournaments that had a few Koreans in them, but if they also paid for flight, hotel, etc. then a precedent seems to have been set. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing can be discussed, but the Koreans cannot really be blamed for expecting the same treatment at NASL, nor can NASL really be blamed for not wanting to foot the bill of who-knows-how-many koreans coming to the finals. This seems like something that should be negotiated about and the negotiations fell through (whose fault that was, we don't know). Hopefully next season they can work it out.
|
On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing.
This is actually an excellent idea. The Koreans who signed their contracts and then withdrew should be banned for one additional season (past this one). It would suck for me as a viewer, but I think that's a reasonable response, and honestly, if you break a contract after signing it, then there should be consequences of some sort.
|
On August 17 2011 17:28 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:08 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:59 tdt wrote:On August 17 2011 16:54 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:50 brachester wrote:On August 17 2011 16:46 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 16:41 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:34 Excomm wrote:On August 17 2011 16:26 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:24 tdt wrote:
Still sound like babies to me. I didnt hear any foreigners whining and they won A LOT less money so should have more reason to QQ for their pitance. Whitera and Sen even stayed over a bit to help promote so they seemed happy.
Then there is not so little matter of signing contract for season 2 then trying to put NASL over the barrel with threats to quit unless they get their way. Talk about dishonest. Foreigners may win less money overall but they have money to begin with unlike Koreans. So that's irrelevant. Oh, I was unaware that Ukrainian and Chinese players had money flowing out of their fingertips. I was also unaware that having less money gives you the right to demand more accommodation than other people who are competing at relatively the same time online and have just as long a flight to the US to compete in the finals. I completely agree with tdt. I'll bet those Chinese/Ukrainian players didn't have to worry if they could eat that night. Also they could demand shit if they wanted, they don't cause it's affordable to them unlike Koreans. I care very little about this topic, but please don't make it sound like you know anything about the finances of other teams. At least we know that most of the foreign teams have much better financial support than many korean teams. Which is the exact point that I was making. People seem to forget that before FXO came around to grab fOu, fOu was struggling to get by. FXOBoss even said that Choya was talking about how he didn't know where he could eat because they were struggling financially so bad. Maybe I shouldn't have commented with me having lived 80% of my life in South Korea and being a bit biased, but I think the players should get accommodated better. All the players. Not just Koreans. Koreans who don't have the money to send out players all the time would probably go if it was possible that they wouldn't lose money (within reason of course). They just can't take risks like that when they don't have money to spare. Korea is a richer country than any eastern European country. Not only that some teams have very good sponsors such as slayers with intel. Picking the worst performing team in Korea and applying it to all is a stretch. We just don't know. Which is why we shouldn't bash Koreans for asking for more when they are the most likely to need the support. Foreign teams have sponsors unlike Korean teams. And yes SlayerS has Intel but they more than likely pulled out cause BoxeR wasn't pleased with the format. NASL should give the players that make the finals financial support if they need it. Possibly even ask the fans for a little help as well. I'm sure fans wouldn't mind paying another $1. That shit would add up quite quickly. You talk as if there's an endless supply of money for NASL. Just give them more! If it was that easy it would have been done. Let's say there would be 16 koreans at the grand final, NASL would have to pay 32k in travel expences. That was their offer. It was not enough. If they say they don't have the budget to raise this who are you to say they really do?
Did you read my post at all?
I gave a fucking alternative if the NASL couldn't afford to give a bit of financial support to players. Read the damn post. Raise the price of the stream a buck or two so they can start putting money aside if a player needs help affording it. Maybe even ask the fans for support. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind donating a few dollars to see higher quality play.
Read a post fully before you respond to it.
On August 17 2011 17:30 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing. This is actually an excellent idea. The Koreans who signed their contracts and then withdrew should be banned for one additional season (past this one). It would suck for me as a viewer, but I think that's a reasonable response, and honestly, if you break a contract after signing it, then there should be consequences of some sort.
Pretty much. Problem is they decided to bash them rather than actually punish them.
|
On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing.
The Korean teams should apologizing for pulling out at the last minute even though they signed contracts.
|
I'm really confused. I can understand if the koreans don't like waking up in middle of the night to play, what then when NASL is plagued with delays for them, but they should just come out and say _that_ then, people will understand that. It really seems like they are just trying to find any possible excuse to make it NASL's fault.
Edit: Also unprofessional to actually report on TL that the korean teams pulled out? Only thing more professional would've been if it was a joint announcement, but with the language barrier that'd take forever and this incident had already made NASL's time frame fubar.
|
On August 17 2011 17:33 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing. The Korean teams should apologizing for pulling out at the last minute even though they signed contracts.
Doesn't mean NASL shouldn't apologize as well though.
|
On August 17 2011 17:36 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:33 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing. The Korean teams should apologizing for pulling out at the last minute even though they signed contracts. Doesn't mean NASL shouldn't apologize as well though.
They shouldnt, they didnt break binding contracts after reading them and waiting so long.
|
On August 17 2011 17:43 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:36 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:33 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 17 2011 17:24 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:20 archonOOid wrote:
No! The head coach of MVP did one mistake insisting that NASL should make an apology... not a great move. I suggest that his mindset should be that the two parties both made some error in the past but there now is time for renewed dialogue or something along those lines. To be honest they should apologize for being unprofessional in their original post. But that's it. They lashed out at the Koreans. It was extremely unprofessional to do that even if the Koreans pissed them off. You won't garner much respect if you cannot handle things with class and put aside emotional bias. When Rain withdrew from GSL you didn't see GOMTV bashing Rain. They just announced he has a GSL ban of 2 events (I think it was 2). They handled it professionally. NASL needs to act more like that in handling of events such as Koreans withdrawing. The Korean teams should apologizing for pulling out at the last minute even though they signed contracts. Doesn't mean NASL shouldn't apologize as well though. They shouldnt, they didnt break binding contracts after reading them and waiting so long.
Acting unprofessionally and bashing the Koreans, even if they did wrong, warrants an apology.
NASL is at fault too. If they shouldn't apologize for being at fault neither should the Koreans.
|
|
|
I side with NASL on this one..
|
On August 17 2011 17:33 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:28 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:08 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:59 tdt wrote:On August 17 2011 16:54 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:50 brachester wrote:On August 17 2011 16:46 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 16:41 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:34 Excomm wrote:On August 17 2011 16:26 Femari wrote:
[quote]
Foreigners may win less money overall but they have money to begin with unlike Koreans. So that's irrelevant. Oh, I was unaware that Ukrainian and Chinese players had money flowing out of their fingertips. I was also unaware that having less money gives you the right to demand more accommodation than other people who are competing at relatively the same time online and have just as long a flight to the US to compete in the finals. I completely agree with tdt. I'll bet those Chinese/Ukrainian players didn't have to worry if they could eat that night. Also they could demand shit if they wanted, they don't cause it's affordable to them unlike Koreans. I care very little about this topic, but please don't make it sound like you know anything about the finances of other teams. At least we know that most of the foreign teams have much better financial support than many korean teams. Which is the exact point that I was making. People seem to forget that before FXO came around to grab fOu, fOu was struggling to get by. FXOBoss even said that Choya was talking about how he didn't know where he could eat because they were struggling financially so bad. Maybe I shouldn't have commented with me having lived 80% of my life in South Korea and being a bit biased, but I think the players should get accommodated better. All the players. Not just Koreans. Koreans who don't have the money to send out players all the time would probably go if it was possible that they wouldn't lose money (within reason of course). They just can't take risks like that when they don't have money to spare. Korea is a richer country than any eastern European country. Not only that some teams have very good sponsors such as slayers with intel. Picking the worst performing team in Korea and applying it to all is a stretch. We just don't know. Which is why we shouldn't bash Koreans for asking for more when they are the most likely to need the support. Foreign teams have sponsors unlike Korean teams. And yes SlayerS has Intel but they more than likely pulled out cause BoxeR wasn't pleased with the format. NASL should give the players that make the finals financial support if they need it. Possibly even ask the fans for a little help as well. I'm sure fans wouldn't mind paying another $1. That shit would add up quite quickly. You talk as if there's an endless supply of money for NASL. Just give them more! If it was that easy it would have been done. Let's say there would be 16 koreans at the grand final, NASL would have to pay 32k in travel expences. That was their offer. It was not enough. If they say they don't have the budget to raise this who are you to say they really do? Did you read my post at all? I gave a fucking alternative if the NASL couldn't afford to give a bit of financial support to players. Read the damn post. Raise the price of the stream a buck or two so they can start putting money aside if a player needs help affording it. Maybe even ask the fans for support. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind donating a few dollars to see higher quality play. Read a post fully before you respond to it.
I read it fully, your deficient business "idea" that's based on nothing but your hopes and dreams is a part of the budget. As long as you don't have any hard facts and numbers like the NASL do, there is no base for that discussion.
|
On August 17 2011 17:18 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:15 lee365 wrote:On August 17 2011 16:51 Ruscour wrote:
I don't usually defend NASL, but what the Koreans are asking for is insane. Disappointing that this happened, and I feel sorry for Xeris and the rest of the NASL staff. All the Koreans are asking is to be treated the same way GOM and MLG treat their overseas players. (Food, Housing,Travel) Actually, I was under the impression that GOM only provides housing and travel to and from the airport. Travel costs to get to Korea and food costs come directly out of the pockets of the players' teams. (Correct me if I'm wrong, though.)
MLG and GOM pay all travel expenses to any invited overseas players via GSL and MLG exchange program. I'm not sure how they handle the Road to Korea tournament.
|
On August 17 2011 17:49 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:33 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:28 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:08 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:59 tdt wrote:On August 17 2011 16:54 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:50 brachester wrote:On August 17 2011 16:46 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 16:41 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:34 Excomm wrote:
[quote]
Oh, I was unaware that Ukrainian and Chinese players had money flowing out of their fingertips. I was also unaware that having less money gives you the right to demand more accommodation than other people who are competing at relatively the same time online and have just as long a flight to the US to compete in the finals. I completely agree with tdt. I'll bet those Chinese/Ukrainian players didn't have to worry if they could eat that night. Also they could demand shit if they wanted, they don't cause it's affordable to them unlike Koreans. I care very little about this topic, but please don't make it sound like you know anything about the finances of other teams. At least we know that most of the foreign teams have much better financial support than many korean teams. Which is the exact point that I was making. People seem to forget that before FXO came around to grab fOu, fOu was struggling to get by. FXOBoss even said that Choya was talking about how he didn't know where he could eat because they were struggling financially so bad. Maybe I shouldn't have commented with me having lived 80% of my life in South Korea and being a bit biased, but I think the players should get accommodated better. All the players. Not just Koreans. Koreans who don't have the money to send out players all the time would probably go if it was possible that they wouldn't lose money (within reason of course). They just can't take risks like that when they don't have money to spare. Korea is a richer country than any eastern European country. Not only that some teams have very good sponsors such as slayers with intel. Picking the worst performing team in Korea and applying it to all is a stretch. We just don't know. Which is why we shouldn't bash Koreans for asking for more when they are the most likely to need the support. Foreign teams have sponsors unlike Korean teams. And yes SlayerS has Intel but they more than likely pulled out cause BoxeR wasn't pleased with the format. NASL should give the players that make the finals financial support if they need it. Possibly even ask the fans for a little help as well. I'm sure fans wouldn't mind paying another $1. That shit would add up quite quickly. You talk as if there's an endless supply of money for NASL. Just give them more! If it was that easy it would have been done. Let's say there would be 16 koreans at the grand final, NASL would have to pay 32k in travel expences. That was their offer. It was not enough. If they say they don't have the budget to raise this who are you to say they really do? Did you read my post at all? I gave a fucking alternative if the NASL couldn't afford to give a bit of financial support to players. Read the damn post. Raise the price of the stream a buck or two so they can start putting money aside if a player needs help affording it. Maybe even ask the fans for support. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind donating a few dollars to see higher quality play. Read a post fully before you respond to it. I read it fully, your deficient business "idea" that's based on nothing but your hopes and dreams is a part of the budget. As long as you don't have any hard facts and numbers like the NASL do, there is no base for that discussion.
My random ideas (which were in no way shape or form fully complete ideas like you seem to have assumed) were just easy ways for the NASL to make more money to support the players coming in, Korean or not.
NASL definitely has not asked the community for a bit of help and I've seen lesser communities get more players than 16 to a fucking tournament. This is doable. NASL just seems to be stuck thinking they're all by themselves.
|
On August 17 2011 17:51 lee365 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:18 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 17:15 lee365 wrote:On August 17 2011 16:51 Ruscour wrote:
I don't usually defend NASL, but what the Koreans are asking for is insane. Disappointing that this happened, and I feel sorry for Xeris and the rest of the NASL staff. All the Koreans are asking is to be treated the same way GOM and MLG treat their overseas players. (Food, Housing,Travel) Actually, I was under the impression that GOM only provides housing and travel to and from the airport. Travel costs to get to Korea and food costs come directly out of the pockets of the players' teams. (Correct me if I'm wrong, though.) MLG and GOM pay all travel expenses to any invited overseas players via GSL and MLG exchange program. I'm not sure how they handle the Road to Korea tournament.
MLG only pays for 4 invited players. Only the most privileged or famous players will ever be given the opportunity.
NASL is a open tournament which technically anyone can qualify for. I can not think of any other tournament with an open qualification process that offer a travel stipend of any kind for their finalists.
It really feels like the Korean's have a false sense of entitlement. As far as I'm aware, the GSL is the only tournament these guys have to participate in regularly. Being able to qualify only for a tournament with a $40,000 prize is huge.
|
On August 17 2011 17:34 Zarahtra wrote:
Edit: Also unprofessional to actually report on TL that the korean teams pulled out? Only thing more professional would've been if it was a joint announcement, but with the language barrier that'd take forever and this incident had already made NASL's time frame fubar.
That wasn't an announcement, that was an opinionated piece seeking to place the blame squarely on the koreans.
A proper announcement would have been short and simple, like "Due to the difficult circumstances that both parties face, Korean teams and NASL have decided to part ways. Matches will not be played blah blah blah and we greatly regret this turn of events yadda yadda."
|
On August 17 2011 17:57 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:49 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:33 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:28 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:08 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:59 tdt wrote:On August 17 2011 16:54 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:50 brachester wrote:On August 17 2011 16:46 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 16:41 Femari wrote:
[quote]
I'll bet those Chinese/Ukrainian players didn't have to worry if they could eat that night.
Also they could demand shit if they wanted, they don't cause it's affordable to them unlike Koreans. I care very little about this topic, but please don't make it sound like you know anything about the finances of other teams. At least we know that most of the foreign teams have much better financial support than many korean teams. Which is the exact point that I was making. People seem to forget that before FXO came around to grab fOu, fOu was struggling to get by. FXOBoss even said that Choya was talking about how he didn't know where he could eat because they were struggling financially so bad. Maybe I shouldn't have commented with me having lived 80% of my life in South Korea and being a bit biased, but I think the players should get accommodated better. All the players. Not just Koreans. Koreans who don't have the money to send out players all the time would probably go if it was possible that they wouldn't lose money (within reason of course). They just can't take risks like that when they don't have money to spare. Korea is a richer country than any eastern European country. Not only that some teams have very good sponsors such as slayers with intel. Picking the worst performing team in Korea and applying it to all is a stretch. We just don't know. Which is why we shouldn't bash Koreans for asking for more when they are the most likely to need the support. Foreign teams have sponsors unlike Korean teams. And yes SlayerS has Intel but they more than likely pulled out cause BoxeR wasn't pleased with the format. NASL should give the players that make the finals financial support if they need it. Possibly even ask the fans for a little help as well. I'm sure fans wouldn't mind paying another $1. That shit would add up quite quickly. You talk as if there's an endless supply of money for NASL. Just give them more! If it was that easy it would have been done. Let's say there would be 16 koreans at the grand final, NASL would have to pay 32k in travel expences. That was their offer. It was not enough. If they say they don't have the budget to raise this who are you to say they really do? Did you read my post at all? I gave a fucking alternative if the NASL couldn't afford to give a bit of financial support to players. Read the damn post. Raise the price of the stream a buck or two so they can start putting money aside if a player needs help affording it. Maybe even ask the fans for support. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind donating a few dollars to see higher quality play. Read a post fully before you respond to it. I read it fully, your deficient business "idea" that's based on nothing but your hopes and dreams is a part of the budget. As long as you don't have any hard facts and numbers like the NASL do, there is no base for that discussion. My random ideas (which were in no way shape or form fully complete ideas like you seem to have assumed) were just easy ways for the NASL to make more money to support the players coming in, Korean or not. NASL definitely has not asked the community for a bit of help and I've seen lesser communities get more players than 16 to a fucking tournament. This is doable. NASL just seems to be stuck thinking they're all by themselves.
It's not as easy as "raise price = more income", if it was everyone with a product would be filthy rich.
Pricing is about balance. Sometimes "raise price = less income" like my local sports team is learning the hard way this season.
|
On August 17 2011 17:59 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:51 lee365 wrote:On August 17 2011 17:18 babylon wrote:On August 17 2011 17:15 lee365 wrote:On August 17 2011 16:51 Ruscour wrote:
I don't usually defend NASL, but what the Koreans are asking for is insane. Disappointing that this happened, and I feel sorry for Xeris and the rest of the NASL staff. All the Koreans are asking is to be treated the same way GOM and MLG treat their overseas players. (Food, Housing,Travel) Actually, I was under the impression that GOM only provides housing and travel to and from the airport. Travel costs to get to Korea and food costs come directly out of the pockets of the players' teams. (Correct me if I'm wrong, though.) MLG and GOM pay all travel expenses to any invited overseas players via GSL and MLG exchange program. I'm not sure how they handle the Road to Korea tournament. MLG only pays for 4 invited players. Only the most privileged or famous players will ever be given the opportunity. NASL is a open tournament which technically anyone can qualify for. I can not think of any other tournament with an open qualification process that offer a travel stipend of any kind for their finalists. It really feels like the Korean's have a false sense of entitlement. As far as I'm aware, the GSL is the only tournament these guys have to participate in regularly. Being able to qualify only for a tournament with a $40,000 prize is huge.
That's false as anyone can enter MLG, you just have to pay.
Last post as it's 5 am and I need to sleep.
NASL and the Koreans both fucked up. The NASL was very unprofessional and lashed out at Koreans possibly making it near impossible for them to come back due to strained relations. The Koreans held the NASL hostage with their demands without reason.
What needs to happen is for them both to sit down and talk about everything. With Milkis as translator. So we know what happens.
Koreans need to communicate the why for the demands. NASL needs to look to the community for ideas and possibly help. They are not alone and they have mine and the rest of the community's support. I would willingly pay a bit extra if it would help get Koreans to the NASL.
Both parties are at fault, they need to admit that and make up so we can see the Koreans in the NASL again.
On August 17 2011 18:06 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 17:57 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:49 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:33 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 17:28 TheBanana wrote:On August 17 2011 17:08 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:59 tdt wrote:On August 17 2011 16:54 Femari wrote:On August 17 2011 16:50 brachester wrote:On August 17 2011 16:46 babylon wrote:
[quote]
I care very little about this topic, but please don't make it sound like you know anything about the finances of other teams. At least we know that most of the foreign teams have much better financial support than many korean teams. Which is the exact point that I was making. People seem to forget that before FXO came around to grab fOu, fOu was struggling to get by. FXOBoss even said that Choya was talking about how he didn't know where he could eat because they were struggling financially so bad. Maybe I shouldn't have commented with me having lived 80% of my life in South Korea and being a bit biased, but I think the players should get accommodated better. All the players. Not just Koreans. Koreans who don't have the money to send out players all the time would probably go if it was possible that they wouldn't lose money (within reason of course). They just can't take risks like that when they don't have money to spare. Korea is a richer country than any eastern European country. Not only that some teams have very good sponsors such as slayers with intel. Picking the worst performing team in Korea and applying it to all is a stretch. We just don't know. Which is why we shouldn't bash Koreans for asking for more when they are the most likely to need the support. Foreign teams have sponsors unlike Korean teams. And yes SlayerS has Intel but they more than likely pulled out cause BoxeR wasn't pleased with the format. NASL should give the players that make the finals financial support if they need it. Possibly even ask the fans for a little help as well. I'm sure fans wouldn't mind paying another $1. That shit would add up quite quickly. You talk as if there's an endless supply of money for NASL. Just give them more! If it was that easy it would have been done. Let's say there would be 16 koreans at the grand final, NASL would have to pay 32k in travel expences. That was their offer. It was not enough. If they say they don't have the budget to raise this who are you to say they really do? Did you read my post at all? I gave a fucking alternative if the NASL couldn't afford to give a bit of financial support to players. Read the damn post. Raise the price of the stream a buck or two so they can start putting money aside if a player needs help affording it. Maybe even ask the fans for support. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind donating a few dollars to see higher quality play. Read a post fully before you respond to it. I read it fully, your deficient business "idea" that's based on nothing but your hopes and dreams is a part of the budget. As long as you don't have any hard facts and numbers like the NASL do, there is no base for that discussion. My random ideas (which were in no way shape or form fully complete ideas like you seem to have assumed) were just easy ways for the NASL to make more money to support the players coming in, Korean or not. NASL definitely has not asked the community for a bit of help and I've seen lesser communities get more players than 16 to a fucking tournament. This is doable. NASL just seems to be stuck thinking they're all by themselves. It's not as easy as "raise price = more income", if it was everyone with a product would be filthy rich. Pricing is about balance. Sometimes "raise price = less income" like my local sports team is learning the hard way this season.
That's why I said they're not fully fledged ideas. I'm throwing out ideas hoping the NASL will listen and attempt to do something.
This isn't about coming up with a solution on the spot, it's about getting them to man up to their mistakes (NASL and Koreans) and get shit done without acting like kids pointing fingers at each other.
And asking for donations to get the Koreans here wouldn't kill their income.
|
As much as I think the Koreans should apologize first for breaking a contract, I cannot look over the fact that the NASL stated that it was important to the VIEWER to have a 100k prize pool, which is why they had to cut production quality and player treatment.
|
Holy crap, there's a lot of bitter and uninformed morons posting here... Why not trying to read the interview regarding the play times for example. The problem was not 4am being the playtime, but the fact that when the players went/stayed up at 4am the games would be delayed two hours on top of that.. How is that so hard to understand?
I'm so god damned tired of the eternal "my region of the world is better than your", it makes me want to throw up.
|
On August 17 2011 16:34 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 16:30 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 17 2011 16:14 Nerdslayer wrote:On August 17 2011 16:13 Lamphead wrote:
people hating on Koreans disliking security deposits are ridiculous. Would you be pleased if restaurants asked you to pay upfront before they delivered your food? Probably not, right? Why is that, although it makes perfect sense? It's because it's /gasp/ not culturally accepted and /gasp/ disrespectful. Wow, those terms sound awfully familiar.. do you pay a deposit if you rent an apartment yes or no? In most countries you do and you do that so you just dont bail overnight. Deposit its a smart idea and protect the tournament that invest alot of time and money into each player. And you will be getting the money back so what is the problem? Fact: Deposit was introduced to hold players responsible who cause trouble. Fact: the only players who caused trouble were those outside Korea Fact: from a Korean point of view, such a deposit is insulting and doubts the professionalism of the players no matter who is at fault, it is easy to see how this conflict came to happen Also a fact: Americans tend to do things across the board, meaning no special treatment. Yes, it was mostly the foreigners who failed to show up on time for matches, thus making a need for security deposits. HOWEVER, because American culture is one where equality and evenness are praised, that rule has to be applied to ALL the players. I think we have all spent a long time talking about how Korean culture should be considered, but this is a case where American culture needs to be considered by the Koreans. After all, it is an American business run by Americans in America. This is how law, contracts and such work in the US. I think in most cases, a contract saying X group has to pay but Y group doesn't would be an illegal contract in the US, which is probably why NASL didn't even consider it.
Find, then just reimburse all the players for traveling and lodging, no special treatment for Koreans. Seriously, do you really belive that we were talking about special treatments for Koreans? That when NASL reimburses them it does not apply to Europeans or Latin Americans?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
