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On August 17 2011 18:48 Velr wrote:
Maybe they would be less poor if they would take some risks and actually play overseas to get more recognition and not just "waste" their time in GSL's were only the very top few gain serious cash...
I mean seriously, look at the players that travel around, aside from MLG there are nearly always the same Koreans going around... And MC became a huge star due to it, I bet my ass his market "worth" is higher than Nestea, MKP or any other Korean in SC2 and his winnings are also showing that traveling is actually "worth" it...
It's one thing when a player like Nestea sais that he focuses on GSL... Because he wins them, it's another thing if some "random Korean team member" is not going abroad because it's out of his comfort zone and there is risk involved.
I find it funny that on the one hand you say 'they'd be less poor if they fought overseas' while completely neglecting the fact that most players CAN'T AFFORD TO.
Nestea could pay for his own flight, but a lot of them can't unless their teams send them. And the teams aren't rich either, and many of them can't afford to. It's not a matter of comfort zone, it's the financial realities of SC2 in Korea.
I think foreigners are getting a really twisted perspective on how much money is in this game by the big name sponsors that are behind foreign teams.
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On August 17 2011 18:21 Inky87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 18:13 tiaz wrote:
Holy crap, there's a lot of bitter and uninformed morons posting here... Why not trying to read the interview regarding the play times for example. The problem was not 4am being the playtime, but the fact that when the players went/stayed up at 4am the games would be delayed two hours on top of that.. How is that so hard to understand?
I'm so god damned tired of the eternal "my region of the world is better than your", it makes me want to throw up.
This is an issue that was discussed and was being improved upon for season 2. I'm so god damned tired of people posting things without reading as much information as possible and feed the hate machine instead.
source? I can find no article about what went wrong and will be made right on the nasl site.
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Honestly, I say make the league half the amount of time and half the games. Fix scheduling to accomodate all regions. Punish players like PAINUSER heavily right from the get go. Halve the prize and use the other $50k on stuff like accomodation for qualifiers. Shit MLG has a $5k prize while NASL has $50K but players are idiots and not thinking this and they attend MLG instead???
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Sorry but the Koreans are definitely wrong here. They ask for way too much, much more than other tournaments are ever willing to give, and then once they get almost everything they leave right before the season is supposed to start and AFTER signing contracts.
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On August 17 2011 20:31 Cartel wrote:
Honestly, I say make the league half the amount of time and half the games. Fix scheduling to accomodate all regions. Punish players like PAINUSER heavily right from the get go. Halve the prize and use the other $50k on stuff like accomodation for qualifiers. Shit MLG has a $5k prize while NASL has $50K but players are idiots and not thinking this and they attend MLG instead???
NASL claimed in a statement on TL about the Koreans withdrawing that it is important for the viewers to have a 100k prize pool.
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"Second, they should fix the poor operation of NASL, in both the online league and finals," said the coach, "Making the players wait for such a long period of time like that greatly affects their conditions and their performance.
This is something all the players can agree with imo. Too many walkovers occurred on matches we wanted to see and some of the matches could be anywhere from 2am-4am when people should be sleeping. Schedules are extremely strict with zero leeway.
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On August 17 2011 20:31 FlamingTurd wrote:
Sorry but the Koreans are definitely wrong here. They ask for way too much, much more than other tournaments are ever willing to give, and then once they get almost everything they leave right before the season is supposed to start and AFTER signing contracts.
no other tournaments offer more.... like... THE GSL they give you a fucking house to live in.
i think they earned to right to get picked up at the airport and have a place to stay.
i don't really blame the NASL for anything but hopefully they can be more generous, the price of two hotel rooms is negligible in the overall budget.
honestly what is with the deal with the deposit. He said it well when he said it shows distrust in the players.
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These tournaments are about the players and these are the customs of their teams. They are professionals. With that said, unfortunately the flights are very expensive and it's for them because their sponsorships just aren't the same when it comes to the top international teams. That's just one of the reasons you see Koreans joining them.
Hard to treat everybody equally at the moment. ;/
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Wow… what a disgrace. At first I thought these Korean teams felt incredibly entitled an lack professionalism as organizations. Then I remembered KeSPA, the top of professional Korean e-Sports. This looks an awful lot like "what would KeSPA do?".
I went from being somewhat disappointed about seeing less matches on the Korean level of competition to being glad that they felt compelled to pull out of this league. The sense of entitlement they're displaying is insane.
Is this a cultural thing or something, seeing that KeSPA behaves in a much similar manner?
Despite all of its mistakes, and it had a lot of work to do, a lot of room to grow, I can at least understand NASL's reasoning and while they have been wrong in some instances they didn't publicly express blatant disrespect for the people they were dealing with.
The Korean teams on the other hand don't seem to miss a single chance to throw dirt at someone they feel cheated by.
Leave them out of NASL. That kind of attitude isn't needed.
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In my opinion the Korean teams need to issue an apology to NASL for pulling out at the last minute and not the other way round...
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On August 17 2011 20:31 Cartel wrote:
Honestly, I say make the league half the amount of time and half the games. Fix scheduling to accomodate all regions. Punish players like PAINUSER heavily right from the get go. Halve the prize and use the other $50k on stuff like accomodation for qualifiers. Shit MLG has a $5k prize while NASL has $50K but players are idiots and not thinking this and they attend MLG instead???
I know NASL liked to pin a lot of their problems on Painuser, but as it happens waiting around to play your matches was a serious problem throughout the entire tournament
http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/entry.php?b=1880
Now imagine that happening to someone who gets up at 4 am to play their game.
That's why Koreans were not happy with the playing conditions, and no one can honestly blame them. I don't think they expect to be treated like royalty they just don't want to play in the absolute worst conditions, evidently it's not worth it to them.
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Looks like a huge communication error on how things work in the states.
Most every competition I know of that gives a travel stipend does so after you attend the event.
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I just knew the language barrier was an issue! god dammit!
when will we make robots that auto translate instantly!
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Well this drama is understandable. The post by NASAL on TL 'announcing' korean departure was seen by the koreans as an attempt to publicly sully their reputation (which arguably is was). So, in response the koreans have to hit back, to try and restore some of their lost reputation: even if it means airing out other reasons less flattering to the NASAL.
Still, personally I wonder when this drama-fest will end, and how long the two sides can keep going on and on...already getting a little old.
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On August 17 2011 20:51 enzym wrote:
Wow… what a disgrace. At first I thought these Korean teams felt incredibly entitled an lack professionalism as organizations. Then I remembered KeSPA, the top of professional Korean e-Sports. This looks an awful lot like "what would KeSPA do?".
I went from being somewhat disappointed about seeing less matches on the Korean level of competition to being glad that they felt compelled to pull out of this league. The sense of entitlement they're displaying is insane.
Is this a cultural thing or something, seeing that KeSPA behaves in a much similar manner?
Despite all of its mistakes, and it had a lot of work to do, a lot of room to grow, I can at least understand NASL's reasoning and while they have been wrong in some instances they didn't publicly express blatant disrespect for the people they were dealing with.
The Korean teams on the other hand don't seem to miss a single chance to throw dirt at someone they feel cheated by.
Leave them out of NASL. That kind of attitude isn't needed.
Lol, all the new TL members who joined because of Sc2 should stop talking about things they know little about >_<. KeSPA is almost singlehandedly responsible for growing and sustaining ScBW in Korea. Without it, or at least without a governing body similar to it, ScBW wouldn't be where it is now.
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I agree with what he says about the language barrier, for example, articles like this could appear insulting towards NASL but i'm sure he doesn't mean it to be that way.
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On August 17 2011 20:42 OrangeApples wrote:Show nested quote +
"Second, they should fix the poor operation of NASL, in both the online league and finals," said the coach, "Making the players wait for such a long period of time like that greatly affects their conditions and their performance.
This is something all the players can agree with imo. Too many walkovers occurred on matches we wanted to see and some of the matches could be anywhere from 2am-4am when people should be sleeping. Schedules are extremely strict with zero leeway.
It's the player's responsibility to show up. Not much the NASL can do here except provide incentive, which they did in form of the deposit from which money was deducted to penalize players failing to observe the rules.
The teams also knew beforehand that the games were to be played at NA and at unfavourable times for some players depending on time zone since it is the North American Star League afterall. They knew this and signed up for it. There's no legitimacy in complaining about that at all.
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It is amazing how people say NASL is unprofessional when the Koreans broke their contracts and did not negotiate correctly in a timely manner.
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Oh lovely, more of this shit. At first it was interesting, now I hope I'm not the only one that just doesn't give a shit anymore.
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On August 17 2011 21:00 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 20:51 enzym wrote:
Wow… what a disgrace. At first I thought these Korean teams felt incredibly entitled an lack professionalism as organizations. Then I remembered KeSPA, the top of professional Korean e-Sports. This looks an awful lot like "what would KeSPA do?".
I went from being somewhat disappointed about seeing less matches on the Korean level of competition to being glad that they felt compelled to pull out of this league. The sense of entitlement they're displaying is insane.
Is this a cultural thing or something, seeing that KeSPA behaves in a much similar manner?
Despite all of its mistakes, and it had a lot of work to do, a lot of room to grow, I can at least understand NASL's reasoning and while they have been wrong in some instances they didn't publicly express blatant disrespect for the people they were dealing with.
The Korean teams on the other hand don't seem to miss a single chance to throw dirt at someone they feel cheated by.
Leave them out of NASL. That kind of attitude isn't needed. Lol, all the new TL members who joined because of Sc2 should stop talking about things they know little about >_<. KeSPA is almost singlehandedly responsible for growing and sustaining ScBW in Korea. Without it, or at least without a governing body similar to it, ScBW wouldn't be where it is now.
I might have misunderstood your post, because it doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe you intended to quote someone else?
I registered this account when Ret was staying in Korea, before the SC2 Beta hit and according to my memory before there was an SC2 section on TL. It is my second one after I couldn't find the first one anymore.
You Joined TL.net Wednesday, 11th of May 2011
I Joined TL.net Wednesday, 20th of January 2010
Even if it were registered at a later date, "because of SC2", it wouldn't say anything about how long I or other people have followed StarCraft or what we have seen of and heard about KeSPA.
Whether or not "KeSPA is almost singlehandedly responsible for growing and sustaining ScBW in Korea" is arguable at best (not in this thread though). I vehemently disagree.
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EPT
