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On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining?
Here's a question: When you were in your very early twenties or teens, did you personally have a grand to throw about? I know I didn't, and I know they don't either.
They don't have sponsors paying their way the way all the foreigners who've been to Korea do.
And it's also worth noting that GOM bends over backwards to make foreigners lives easier when they do go to Korea.
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On August 17 2011 22:08 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining? Well it's your opinion vs the opinion of every single Korean player who actually participated in the tournament. And players like Naniwa who also said NASL is not worth the hassle with the way it is organized. But please continue, tell us how they are all pathetic, you would know better
I'm just saying it seems that the korean teams (for what I've seen and I don't know everything I'm aware of that) are complaining that its expensive more than anything else...well its expensive to go live for a month in Korea and when GSL first started there was no GOM house so maybe they need to realize that all this is part of NASL's growth and that crying and backing out at the last second is quite childish and is only going to look bad
now I'm sure NASL is a hassle but the Koreans could have said sooner that they wished to back out rather than just one day decided to say "nope we don't wanna" and leave the nasl high and dry
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So much of this simply comes down to communication problems, it's just sad :/
NASL posted their opinion on Team Liquid and not through official channels, causing not only the five Korean teams in question but also the rest of the Korean teams to feel that they lost their reputation. This is seen as extremely amateurish in Korea
With this I agree very much tho, NASL really should get their act together concerning their website. While posting stuff on TL absolutely makes sense, I feel official announcements/statements should be posted on the nasl.tv site first and foremost, and it seems like NASL has abandoned that practice almost completely. The official website is totally outdated and imo this gives NASL a really bad impression. If you visited the homepage right now you'd think all the korean players are still competing, Player/Team sites still are from S1 (hi ROOT gaming), and none of the recent news can be found. It's just bad and I can see why people would think of NASL as an amateurish organisation. :/
I don't think this whole Korean player debacle should be blamed on NASL entirely, but I think alot things need to change in their organisation, the league definitely has potential, but bad management/ decisionmaking is all over the place and holding it back. :/
E:
On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining?
It's kinda hard to compare... for most foreigners the most important part of going to korea/ competing in GSL is actually just being able to practice in a korean teamhouse environment I'd wager... so the month won't be wasted anyways
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On August 17 2011 21:52 Xercen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 21:43 Psycosquirrel wrote:
I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Could the NASL have run their finals better? Yes, of course. The timing issue of koreans needing to be up late is a problem, but honestly with the global nature of the NASL there really isn't a way around it. Either a korean wakes up early to play, or the entire NASL production crew needs to either get up super early/late. the whole point of a coach is to take care of their members. The koreans have the best players so from their pov and most peoples' pov, they are the players that people wanna watch the most (TL POLLS CONFIRMS THIS!). the best players should get special treatment because nasl gets extra viewers and money because of korean players. that's a fact. if u want nasl to become a world class big tournament to rival gsl, you need to make those sacrifices. no point whining about a coach who is doing his job in order to get players the best treatment.
lol korean players should get special treatment haha what kind of fecking sport do you want. If you get you wish this would be the only sport in the world where some players get special treatment really
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On August 17 2011 22:13 paloo wrote:So much of this simply comes down to communication problems, it's just sad :/ NASL posted their opinion on Team Liquid and not through official channels, causing not only the five Korean teams in question but also the rest of the Korean teams to feel that they lost their reputation. This is seen as extremely amateurish in KoreaWith this I agree very much tho, NASL really should get their act together concerning their website. While posting stuff on TL absolutely makes sense, I feel official announcements/statements should be posted on the nasl.tv site first and foremost, and it seems like NASL has abandoned that practice almost completely. The official website is totally outdated and imo this gives NASL a really bad impression. If you visited the homepage right now you'd think all the korean players are still competing, Player/Team sites still are from S1 (hi ROOT gaming), and none of the recent news can be found. It's just bad and I can see why people would think of NASL as an amateurish organisation. :/ I don't think this whole Korean player debacle should be blamed on NASL entirely, but I think alot things need to change in their organisation, the league definitely has potential, but bad management/ decisionmaking is all over the place and holding it back. :/ E: Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining? It's kinda hard to compare... for most foreigners the most important part of going to korea/ competing in GSL is actually just being able to practice in a korean teamhouse environment I'd wager... so the month won't be wasted anyways
that is true but when GSL started there was no GOM house and the only foreign house was the oGs-TL house so anyone else who wanted to go had a huge commitment on their hands where as when NASL started its about a $1k , and considering nasl said they would deduct it from winnings you aren't losing any money at all, and what a week in the US for the finals?
i just think that they need to see that the nasl is still a baby the GSL open season 2 wasn't exactly a symbol of perfection but they expect the nasl season 2 to be everything they want?
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I dont understand what there is to debate. They should NOT have waited till the last minute to get out.
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On August 17 2011 12:51 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 12:50 ThreeActPlay wrote:
"Treat us like the rock stars that we are, OK?" I'm sure they want free steak dinners and limo service thrown in too. When YOU are in foreign country, it would be nice if your host picks you up from the airport. They just want to be treated like a guest, not a rock star. So please dont insult their simple request...you are only insulting your own intelligence and manner.
So you get picked up by your hotel's manager when you go on holiday?
Ive posted this before in the other thread but the koreans "fame" is getting to their heads, they expect to be treated like kings, for what? do europeans get this same treatment? haha...
Koreans threw their toys out the prams because they didnt get what they want, seriously. calling a cab to get to the venue is that hard? They dont have a translator with them or speak good enough english? Its ridiculous.
If they didnt have a translator then i would consider NASL sending one to help them, completely within reason, providing a bloody chauffer for them and "rolling out the red carpet" is damn ridiculous, the koreans in question need to pull their heads out their ... if you ask me
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I'm kind of chuckling right now. For much of NASL's original thread, posters who were whtie-knighting the Koreans kept saying how biased the article was. Bias doesn't hide the truth - Koreans reneged on signed contracts.
Second, the MVP coach has only an outsider perspective on the situation. He has all the bias, and none of the facts. He certainly has the hearsay (ting shuo) - which means, woot, he gets to spread biased information to counter NASL's initial announcement. Um, yay? Are we seriously celebrating an outsider's perspective on this?
The two qualifying tournaments for NASL Season 2 were held before the finals, so many Koreans eager to qualify at that time found themselves starting to reconsider their decision once they heard the trouble their countrymen had during their trip. That does not explain the signing of contracts, but as a third party Choi had no information on that topic.
Choi has no explanation and is a 3rd party, but what the heck, let him rant against the NASL anyway right? And to add insult to injury, now he wants NASL to apologize, when the Koreans pulled out super last minute, and I emphasize, reneging on signed contracts? Choi complains that NASL posting their comments on TL was "extremely amateurish in Korea". And how do you think the last minute nature of all Korean teams pulling out of NASL looks to Americans?
And to finish this off, after Choi's biased viewpoints, he tries to renege on his antagonism towards NASL:
Coach Choi hoped that his comments will not cause controversy, as he wants both sides to reach an amicable conclusion to the disagreement.
-_-
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On August 17 2011 22:28 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 12:51 ninjamyst wrote:On August 17 2011 12:50 ThreeActPlay wrote:
"Treat us like the rock stars that we are, OK?" I'm sure they want free steak dinners and limo service thrown in too. When YOU are in foreign country, it would be nice if your host picks you up from the airport. They just want to be treated like a guest, not a rock star. So please dont insult their simple request...you are only insulting your own intelligence and manner. So you get picked up by your hotel's manager when you go on holiday? Ive posted this before in the other thread but the koreans "fame" is getting to their heads, they expect to be treated like kings, for what? do europeans get this same treatment? haha... Koreans threw their toys out the prams because they didnt get what they want, seriously. calling a cab to get to the venue is that hard? They dont have a translator with them or speak good enough english? Its ridiculous. If they didnt have a translator then i would consider NASL sending one to help them, completely within reason, providing a bloody chauffer for them and "rolling out the red carpet" is damn ridiculous, the koreans in question need to pull their heads out their ... if you ask me
No one is saying the NASL should roll out the red carpet. But they can step up do what the GSL has done, if they're going to be throwing out these huge prize pools.
Consider what GOM has done to make Foreigners' lives easier when they do come to Korea to participate in the GSL. You got on many occassions Torch picking up specific foreigners from the Airport. You got GOM providing selected foreigners a Team House where they can stay and practice. You got the MLG/GSL exchange where players' expenses are paid for.
The NASL has a lot of work to do, not only on the production side of things, but as well as protecting its players. There's a mutual benefit relationship to be had here. Korean players bring in huge viewers and higher level of play. Methinks if the NASL can find a way to get Korean players over, it'll benefit not only them, but everyone.
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These Koreans are acting like a bunch of pussy babies. They signed up to play the games, and they backed out last minute, therefore the onus is 100% on them. They can't expect every tournament to bend over backwards for them (and let's be honest, these weren't all top-tier Nestea/IMMVP-caliber players-- these were Code B losers from ZeNEX nobody has ever heard of), and if they DO want special concessions to be made, they need to address those issues BEFORE they sign the contracts.
Truthfully, this is the NORTH AMERICAN Star League. People foreign to North America are invited to sign up and participate, but if they choose not to, that is alright with me. I'll be watching anyway, because I enjoy most of the home-grown NA and European talent that WILL be participating. The Koreans need to get off their high-horses; if they don't want to participate they don't have to. Go linger in Code F and fade into obscurity and leave the huge potential prizes at NASL and other foreign tournaments on the table. I'd rather see Idra or Destiny and Nerchio or Dimaga win (just not a terran or protoss  ) than some dewey from Korea.
Just my opinions plz no ban me keke thx
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this feels pretty hypocrtical to me, firstly he bashs NASL for posting on Teamliquid first, but didnt TSL do the exact same thing?
secondly he complains about how NASL isnt being very nice about not picking them up but isnt 2000 dollar travel expence plenty? and i dont think anyone even asked for such a thing im sure NASL could have obliged that if they asked
thirdly wasnt it the Korean teams who should offer an apology for leaving at the last minute?
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On August 17 2011 22:13 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining? Here's a question: When you were in your very early twenties or teens, did you personally have a grand to throw about? I know I didn't, and I know they don't either. They don't have sponsors paying their way the way all the foreigners who've been to Korea do. And it's also worth noting that GOM bends over backwards to make foreigners lives easier when they do go to Korea.
unless i am mistaken NASL offered originally a thousand dollars for travel expenses and such and bumped it to 2000 dollars at there request which im sure should deal with any expenses incurred
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On August 17 2011 21:22 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 20:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 17 2011 20:31 FlamingTurd wrote:
Sorry but the Koreans are definitely wrong here. They ask for way too much, much more than other tournaments are ever willing to give, and then once they get almost everything they leave right before the season is supposed to start and AFTER signing contracts. no other tournaments offer more.... like... THE GSL they give you a fucking house to live in. i think they earned to right to get picked up at the airport and have a place to stay. i don't really blame the NASL for anything but hopefully they can be more generous, the price of two hotel rooms is negligible in the overall budget. honestly what is with the deal with the deposit. He said it well when he said it shows distrust in the players. Why even bring up the GOM house? The GSL tournament can potentially be a MONTH long thing for a player. How do you expect a foreigner to live in SK? GOM has to provide some sort of housing or it would be even more difficult for foreigners to go.
Because he said they ask for way too much that other tournaments are not willing to give. But the GSL does.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 17 2011 22:13 paloo wrote:So much of this simply comes down to communication problems, it's just sad :/ NASL posted their opinion on Team Liquid and not through official channels, causing not only the five Korean teams in question but also the rest of the Korean teams to feel that they lost their reputation. This is seen as extremely amateurish in KoreaWith this I agree very much tho, NASL really should get their act together concerning their website. While posting stuff on TL absolutely makes sense, I feel official announcements/statements should be posted on the nasl.tv site first and foremost, and it seems like NASL has abandoned that practice almost completely. The official website is totally outdated and imo this gives NASL a really bad impression. If you visited the homepage right now you'd think all the korean players are still competing, Player/Team sites still are from S1 (hi ROOT gaming), and none of the recent news can be found. It's just bad and I can see why people would think of NASL as an amateurish organisation. :/ I don't think this whole Korean player debacle should be blamed on NASL entirely, but I think alot things need to change in their organisation, the league definitely has potential, but bad management/ decisionmaking is all over the place and holding it back. :/ E: Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining? It's kinda hard to compare... for most foreigners the most important part of going to korea/ competing in GSL is actually just being able to practice in a korean teamhouse environment I'd wager... so the month won't be wasted anyways
I disagree. I think it should have also been posted on their website but there's nothing wrong with posting on TL.
The thing is, the original post was nothing more than announcement. When you see it for what it is, it makes sense why it was on TL...people make announcements on TL. Where did EG make their announcement? How about IPL?
Just because the announcement is not super happy and doesn't make you excited doesn't mean it shouldn't be announced on a forum where the most people are likely to see it.
ALSO: If any of you saw FXO's original post, wouldn't you say that's worse and sullied the Koreans 50x worse? Yet most of the people there are saying "Fxo thanks for your transparancy."
Seriously I don't see why NASL is being expected to act differently than anyone else. They did what anyone else would have done.
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On August 17 2011 21:43 Psycosquirrel wrote:
I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Fun fact: They have already been successfull with their action, since the IPL 3 league will cover flight and accomodation costs for some players. You can bet what players that will be...
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FnaticXeris just screws everything up and just tries to shift the blame anywhere and everywhere else. NASL please get rid off him. He is an extremely rude and immature individual who is very incompetent.
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On August 17 2011 22:40 Forikorder wrote:
this feels pretty hypocrtical to me, firstly he bashs NASL for posting on Teamliquid first, but didnt TSL do the exact same thing?
secondly he complains about how NASL isnt being very nice about not picking them up but isnt 2000 dollar travel expence plenty? and i dont think anyone even asked for such a thing im sure NASL could have obliged that if they asked
thirdly wasnt it the Korean teams who should offer an apology for leaving at the last minute?
It IS hypocritical. "Hey NASL apologize for recieving miscommunication from middle-men. I know that's our fault for making a decision to breach your contract and deciding we didn't feel like telling you directly, but that doesn't matter!"
I'm sorry, but the way they handled contracts and even worse, the way they handled negotiations is unprofessional. IF NASL should apologize, so should they.
Don't get defensive and start blaming NASL just because people are calling it like it is, and you're receiving due criticism. That's not NASL's fault, their original post was nothing more than an announcement. If people are criticizing you, perhaps you did something wrong.
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On August 17 2011 22:46 Dexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 21:43 Psycosquirrel wrote:
I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Fun fact: They have already been successfull with their action, since the IPL 3 league will cover flight and accomodation costs for some players. You can bet what players that will be...
i believe that it will be only the invited palyers...? or am i thinking blizzard?
as for the Gom house, the GSL offers housing becuase they partnered with MLG right? and only becuase of what MLG did in return if someone like IdrA went over to Korea he couldnt go live in the gom house for free he would need to find his own accomodations so Koreans expect there way to be paid 100% but they only offer to pay others way into the GSL if they do really really well at MLG
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I really have a hard time trying to understand why the Korean teams feel they NEED the best accommodations just to compete. And what is wrong with a deposit when you get it back at the end of the season. If you don't get part of that back, it's because YOU violated a rule. NASL also offered $2000 in traveling funds for each Korean player who qualifies if I remember right.
I feel NASL has done enough for all the players and it is honestly their loss if they choose not to compete. I would like to see some Koreans in the tournament, but so be it. I'll still watch NASL when I can and I hope that there can be some kind of agreement soon.
Simple opinion: I think the Korean teams are asking for a little much. To have EVERYTHING paid for by the tournament is. . . outlandish. I know sponsorships in the west are a little more generous and numerous than they are in Korea, but I guess that's why we see Koreans joining foreigner teams I believe the root of all the Koreans "requests" is due to sponsor limitations. It is a far more limited sponsor market over there and I understand that, but what I say to you my dear Koreans is that you are going to have to sacrifice some to earn some. Have faith in your players, train hard, learn to pay out of your pocket every now and then for big opportunity and exposure.
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On August 17 2011 22:46 Dexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 21:43 Psycosquirrel wrote:
I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Fun fact: They have already been successfull with their action, since the IPL 3 league will cover flight and accomodation costs for some players. You can bet what players that will be...
You have to read the fine print of IPL 3. They give flight and accommodation for top 2.
NASL's offer is still better if you are looking to bring over 15 Koreans.
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EPT
