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I liked watching the NASL and I'm sure alot of people did. Sure there were some obvious problems , but hell they only have been getting better.
I don't think you should make any special arrangements for anyone at all.
If your team can't afford to support you then you can't enter as simple as that.
Yeah it's a bit mean but it's the facts of life, sporting life in fact. They shouldn't change any of the game times to accommodate the Korean players either it is the North American Star League after all.
It will be sad not see a Korean presence in the NASL though. The person who linked crunchers post was interesting. Maybe it was never as exciting as GSL but it's kinda cool to flick on a NASL stream while your eating dinner or just relaxing
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On August 17 2011 13:01 ninjamyst wrote:
This just shows how BADLY NASL treated them, for them to give up a chance to win $40k. That means NASL really messed up. Koreans have no problem going to MLG and other tournaments with smaller prize pool. It's not the $$, it's being mistreated.
Same impression here.
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On August 17 2011 20:48 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 20:31 FlamingTurd wrote:
Sorry but the Koreans are definitely wrong here. They ask for way too much, much more than other tournaments are ever willing to give, and then once they get almost everything they leave right before the season is supposed to start and AFTER signing contracts. no other tournaments offer more.... like... THE GSL they give you a fucking house to live in. i think they earned to right to get picked up at the airport and have a place to stay. i don't really blame the NASL for anything but hopefully they can be more generous, the price of two hotel rooms is negligible in the overall budget. honestly what is with the deal with the deposit. He said it well when he said it shows distrust in the players.
Why even bring up the GOM house? The GSL tournament can potentially be a MONTH long thing for a player. How do you expect a foreigner to live in SK? GOM has to provide some sort of housing or it would be even more difficult for foreigners to go.
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Dunno, I like having koreans but not at the cost of them having better treatment than others. If they didn't like it, they should've of not signed the contracts in the first place :/
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Whoa the OP is oPlaiD? Are you the same pro scout from competitive TF2? If so, then you sir are a baller.
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On August 17 2011 12:45 HolyArrow wrote:
Thank you for posting this! Will read now.
Dude, why don't you read first before posting? The point of this is to discuss it, not to post on it first...
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On August 17 2011 21:20 soiii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 13:01 ninjamyst wrote:
This just shows how BADLY NASL treated them, for them to give up a chance to win $40k. That means NASL really messed up. Koreans have no problem going to MLG and other tournaments with smaller prize pool. It's not the $$, it's being mistreated. Same impression here.
NASL probably treated them ~ like everyone else... Other tourneys should do the same (while NASL resolves it's issues)...
I can't stand tournaments sucking the Koreans cock just because some guys declaring "not watching stracraft 2 whiteout kroeans in it"...
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On August 17 2011 21:07 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 20:42 OrangeApples wrote:
"Second, they should fix the poor operation of NASL, in both the online league and finals," said the coach, "Making the players wait for such a long period of time like that greatly affects their conditions and their performance.
This is something all the players can agree with imo. Too many walkovers occurred on matches we wanted to see and some of the matches could be anywhere from 2am-4am when people should be sleeping. Schedules are extremely strict with zero leeway. It's the player's responsibility to show up. Not much the NASL can do here except provide incentive, which they did in form of the deposit from which money was deducted to penalize players failing to observe the rules. The teams also knew beforehand that the games were to be played at NA and at unfavourable times for some players depending on time zone since it is the North American Star League afterall. They knew this and signed up for it. There's no legitimacy in complaining about that at all.
Y'know, this has gotten to be such a massive cluster, when this is the only thing that really matters; it's pretty obvious the Korean teams never should have gotten involved in a situation where they were going to be on the hook for potentially sending multiple players to the US with no payoff.
I think their eyes were bigger than their wallets, and it took the finals for them to realize what a potential debacle they were facing (this is why the whole 'OMG those assholes participated in the S2 qualifiers' sentiment seems so misplaced to me). I feel like Boxer's experience which was the worst case scenario being played out (fly out, sit for 12 hours, play 2 games, fly home) was the big wake up call.
While I agree with a number of their complaints (which are why I'm not going to be watching future NASLs), listing them is a little petty and a transparent face-saving attempt. It boils down to a case of teams with no money (this is why they can't afford to sign their 20 player rosters to long term contracts) suddenly faced with the reality that the finals could be 12-16 Koreans.
I also think the Puma situation is terrifying for them, with MLG/Dreamhack the participants are hand picked, whereas with the NASL a prized under the radar player can go from major contributor to some random team's crown jewel in one fell swoop. This is another 'it didn't occur to them until the finals and then it happened' worst case scenario.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
Koreans are very good at playing the victim when it comes to media. They went through qualifiers for a tournament just so they could all threaten to pull out at the last minute to get some leverage. Blame lies with them 100%.
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I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Could the NASL have run their finals better? Yes, of course. The timing issue of koreans needing to be up late is a problem, but honestly with the global nature of the NASL there really isn't a way around it. Either a korean wakes up early to play, or the entire NASL production crew needs to either get up super early/late.
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First season of NASL.... that is all. Are they amateurs at the moment? Yes. Do the Koreans have to be so combative about it? No.
For the first season, the Koreans can't have expected it to be completely smooth sailing. The NASL has ( I think ) a relatively small staff. I feel like they should DEFINITELY been focusing more on their production (especially after what had happened lol), and the Koreans weren't able to be received how they wanted to be. Do they have a right to complain about the format, I believe so. However NASL says that they need to cast every single match, whether that means getting a separate stage for the other casters to cast some matches, or something of the sort.
Bottom line is that it's the first season of NASL, and as it's the only league of its type, to expect a completely smooth ride is very naive. I think all of these things that the Koreans complained about (except maybe the format), would have been remedied next season. Nothing can be figured out on the first try..
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yeah nasl has lost their reputation imo and not the koreans.
nasl had poor lag and weird streaming issues consistently throughout season 1 and although their prize pool was huge, they would keep players waiting (i remember julyzerg had to wait 4-5 hours early morning to wait for a game that nobody showed up for so he won). Sorry but for a progamer to wait 4-5 is really bad.
I would hope nasl reduce their prize pool and funnel the money into production values and helping the players.
atm nasl is definately the worst big tournament i've ever seen
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On August 17 2011 21:43 Psycosquirrel wrote:
I've kinda had enough of the korean teams as well. The MVP coach is basically demanding special treatment from NASL, solely because they're korean. My interpretation is that the koreans have realized that they're stock is very high in the foreign community right now, and they are using that as leverage to get better deals out of tournaments.
What about europeans who come over? Lots of them don't have excellent English skills. And with the tornament in california, many of them will need to fly almost as far or farther than koreans. Yet the MVP coach doesn't seem too concerned with them.
Could the NASL have run their finals better? Yes, of course. The timing issue of koreans needing to be up late is a problem, but honestly with the global nature of the NASL there really isn't a way around it. Either a korean wakes up early to play, or the entire NASL production crew needs to either get up super early/late.
the whole point of a coach is to take care of their members. The koreans have the best players so from their pov and most peoples' pov, they are the players that people wanna watch the most (TL POLLS CONFIRMS THIS!). the best players should get special treatment because nasl gets extra viewers and money because of korean players. that's a fact.
if u want nasl to become a world class big tournament to rival gsl, you need to make those sacrifices.
no point whining about a coach who is doing his job in order to get players the best treatment.
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The speak about amateurish behaviour, when the koreans broke their contracts? I really dont understand that. They have no grounds at all for saying anything about anyone, when they signed the contracts, knowing full well what was in them, and then waited until the last moment before the NASL was going to start to basically try and blackmail the NASL.
Maybe the NASL didn't take great care of the players when they came to the US. Maybe they there's tons of things that they need to fix, before the koreans decide to participate in it again. And that's fine, let NASL do that first.
But the koreans broke their fucking contracts, and in the worst possible way. They signed the contracts, then at the worst possible moment for the NASL the objected to the terms of the contract. After signing them. Scumbag move.
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On August 17 2011 21:35 AnalThermometer wrote:
Koreans are very good at playing the victim when it comes to media. They went through qualifiers for a tournament just so they could all threaten to pull out at the last minute to get some leverage. Blame lies with them 100%.
Some leverage to what end? You're not looking for leverage when you're leaving a league, you're looking for leverage if you want to stay.
Honestly, this is just a "diminishing returns" thing for the Koreans. There's no point them flying whole teams over to stomp a few foreigners and then have the Ro16 be all-Korea, unless NASL is willing to cover that cost (which in my opinion they should). I bet in future seasons of NASL, there will be 2-3 Korean invites that will come over and smash the tournament, just like MLG. That's a much more sustainable business model for both parties - NASL is hit with a lot less cost, and they still get the hype of higher match quality that comes when Koreans attend anything.
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The Koreans have to realize that e-sports simply is not as developed as it is over in Korea despite the colossal sums of money on offer, and that in order for it to develop, they're going to have to lower their standards for a while as the tournaments get set up.
Traditionally our big e-sports tournaments are linked to gaming/nerdy conventions rather than tournaments for their own sake. MLG and NASL are relative exceptions to this, but even MLG doesn't have particularly high production values.
The big exception of course is Blizzcon, but Blizzcon is corporate funded.
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I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining?
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On August 17 2011 21:58 HyperionDreamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 21:35 AnalThermometer wrote:
Koreans are very good at playing the victim when it comes to media. They went through qualifiers for a tournament just so they could all threaten to pull out at the last minute to get some leverage. Blame lies with them 100%. Some leverage to what end? You're not looking for leverage when you're leaving a league, you're looking for leverage if you want to stay. Honestly, this is just a "diminishing returns" thing for the Koreans. There's no point them flying whole teams over to stomp a few foreigners and then have the Ro16 be all-Korea, unless NASL is willing to cover that cost (which in my opinion they should). I bet in future seasons of NASL, there will be 2-3 Korean invites that will come over and smash the tournament, just like MLG. That's a much more sustainable business model for both parties - NASL is hit with a lot less cost, and they still get the hype of higher match quality that comes when Koreans attend anything.
except $100000.
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lol maybe NASL shouldve made an unbreakable contract deal, so Koreans wouldnt have fucking broke the contract or sign the contract in first place.
i see why a lot of ppl is mad about this issue, but this is rather difficult in first place to bring a lot of Koreans to US. time difference is at least 16 hours to 20 hours
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On August 17 2011 22:04 Sega92 wrote:
I'm sorry but am I the only one that thinks all of this is pathetic? to compete in NASL you need nothing except some weird hours to play, until you get to the final event NOW lets compare
-GSL
-need 1 month minimum to LIVE in Korea
-might not even qualify so your month gets wasted
-literally NO money for code A, NEED code s to even hope to make any sort of attempt to make back money spent
-NASL
-ability to play games at weird hours of the day
-about 1 grand to fly out considering NASL PAYS part of it
who should be complaining?
Well it's your opinion vs the opinion of every single Korean player who actually participated in the tournament. And players like Naniwa who also said NASL is not worth the hassle with the way it is organized.
But please continue, tell us how they are all pathetic, you would know better
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EPT
