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On January 30 2015 17:51 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle. We can use this as a lesson: this is what's called `whataboutism' - when you're called out for doing something wrong, you need to divert the topic by pointing at someone else that might have done something wrong. You preferably pick a topic where some people would be inclined to argue for and others against, as that would require the other interlocutors to spend the most amount of time not talking about what you did wrong.
Didn't a few of the things TheDwf said actually made it into a patch? like restoring the orignal WM splash radius and nerfing MsC vision range (altough he wasn't the only one suggesting that)
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On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle.
Downfalls list was considerably less extreme, more thought out and much better in providing explanations. A majority of the community actually somewhat agreed on that. For example, his proposed immortal change is IMO still an amazing alternative to what will happen in LotV.
Now, to put that against your list of changes... You came up with about 10 buffs to Protoss and 8 nerfs to Terran to balance out a Protoss favored PVT. Additionally, you changed the entire Zerg race, not in their favor.
you offered zero to none explanations and no evidence why said changes should be made in the first place.
To continue on this, you've got your timeline wrong. 3 in Code S is not my definition of 'dominating'.
Lastly, I see you learned the "pot calls the kettle black expression". Good on you! Who is the biased one you are refering to? I call you out for bullshitting - you quote me with a comment - you complain about TheDwf - ask me what my point is (which is that you are a salty whiner) - insult somebody who is biased.
Well, sir, as a matter of fact, I've played Random for years. I care about good racial balance (in tournaments and winrates) and fun playing styles. I am one of the least biased guys you'll find around here.
There's a reason people are wondering if you are for real or just trolling. Don't make me pull up your list and completely rek your credibility.
Toastie
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On January 30 2015 18:20 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle. Downfalls list was considerably less extreme, more thought out and much better in providing explanations. A majority of the community actually somewhat agreed on that. For example, his proposed immortal change is IMO still an amazing alternative to what will happen in LotV. Now, to put that against your list of changes... You came up with about 10 buffs to Protoss and 8 nerfs to Terran to balance out a Protoss favored PVT. Additionally, you changed the entire Zerg race, not in their favor. you offered zero to none explanations and no evidence why said changes should be made in the first place. To continue on this, you've got your timeline wrong. 3 in Code S is not my definition of 'dominating'. Lastly, I see you learned the "pot calls the kettle black expression". Good on you! Who is the biased one you are refering to? I call you out for bullshitting - you quote me with a comment - you complain about TheDwf - ask me what my point is (which is that you are a salty whiner) - insult somebody who is biased. Well, sir, as a matter of fact, I've played Random for years. I care about good racial balance (in tournaments and winrates) and fun playing styles. I am one of the least biased guys you'll find around here. There's a reason people are wondering if you are for real or just trolling. Don't make me pull up your list and completely rek your credibility. Toastie
But lets assume, for the sake of argument, that DWF was absolutely nut-balls crazy. DWF being wrong would not make what Parkufarku says right. So lets stop feeding him.
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This might be the nearest thread for my concern.
Is it just me or are terrans underperforming these days? I notice a couple of months ago terran were some kind of a dominant race. Now it looks like Protoss and Zerg have "more" ways to deal with them, although no changes were made to the game.
I am really interested to hear opinions of keener observers where the differences lie and why this might be like this today. Is this the evolution of the game or it is a passage in a cycle?
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On January 31 2015 00:40 plotspot wrote:
This might be the nearest thread for my concern.
Is it just me or are terrans underperforming these days? I notice a couple of months ago terran were some kind of a dominant race. Now it looks like Protoss and Zerg have "more" ways to deal with them, although no changes were made to the game.
I am really interested to hear opinions of keener observers where the differences lie and why this might be like this today. Is this the evolution of the game or it is a passage in a cycle?
It is essentially the evolution of the game and why SC2 is so awesome :-)
Terran was really strong on the previous map pool. Whilst tournament maps haven't really changed, the metagame caught up. The game is really looking well balanced atm.
What you might be observing is players like Bomber, Flash struggling, which has to do with personal form more so than the race.
Overall, SC2 is as balanced as it can probably be given the weird stage we are in with LOTV coming up and maps being different all over the place.
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On January 30 2015 18:20 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle. Downfalls list was considerably less extreme, more thought out and much better in providing explanations. A majority of the community actually somewhat agreed on that. For example, his proposed immortal change is IMO still an amazing alternative to what will happen in LotV. Now, to put that against your list of changes... You came up with about 10 buffs to Protoss and 8 nerfs to Terran to balance out a Protoss favored PVT. Additionally, you changed the entire Zerg race, not in their favor. you offered zero to none explanations and no evidence why said changes should be made in the first place. To continue on this, you've got your timeline wrong. 3 in Code S is not my definition of 'dominating'. Lastly, I see you learned the "pot calls the kettle black expression". Good on you! Who is the biased one you are refering to? I call you out for bullshitting - you quote me with a comment - you complain about TheDwf - ask me what my point is (which is that you are a salty whiner) - insult somebody who is biased. Well, sir, as a matter of fact, I've played Random for years. I care about good racial balance (in tournaments and winrates) and fun playing styles. I am one of the least biased guys you'll find around here. There's a reason people are wondering if you are for real or just trolling. Don't make me pull up your list and completely rek your credibility. Toastie
No, actually my list was very casual and not very serious, while he typed up an enormous post that sounded that he was very serious about the changes. You can call out my balance suggestions all you want, but since it wasn't really done seriously like TheDwf's has, your whining and accusations are baseless.
You know exactly the pot kettle expression is for. You're clearly T biased to the point its not even funny anymore, and I pity you for it. Ok you play random, got it. Guess what? I PLAY TERRAN. That makes me in a position to be less biased than you. I was Zerg/Protoss during Broodwar, and hated the T race for how much advantages it had, but in SC2, I switched to T and it is way better than my P or Z. I quit playing games nowadays and just watch games on youtube, but doesn't change the fact that I'm in a position less biased than you.
LOL we've been talking about the list the whole time, and I already replied it wasn't done seriously. Pull it up Mr. Bad ass, I don't really care.
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On January 30 2015 17:51 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle. We can use this as a lesson: this is what's called `whataboutism' - when you're called out for doing something wrong, you need to divert the topic by pointing at someone else that might have done something wrong. You preferably pick a topic where some people would be inclined to argue for and others against, as that would require the other interlocutors to spend the most amount of time not talking about what you did wrong.
That's because TheDwf pulls out a long ridiculous list of balance changes and you Terrans eat it on this thread and worship him, and when a non-pro Terran viewpoint comes up with a casual list (half not really serious) that puts Terran nerfs(much needed btw), you guys go ape-shit crazy and call them a troll with the 'dont nerf my race bro' mentality.
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On January 31 2015 01:20 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2015 17:51 Ghanburighan wrote:On January 30 2015 09:57 parkufarku wrote:On January 30 2015 04:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Parkufarku you've proven multiple times you are extremely biased against terran. Forgot that ridiculous list of balance suggestions of yours? and TheDwf has his ridiculous list of balance suggestions when T was dominating already, what's your point? The biased one calls me biased. Pot kettle. We can use this as a lesson: this is what's called `whataboutism' - when you're called out for doing something wrong, you need to divert the topic by pointing at someone else that might have done something wrong. You preferably pick a topic where some people would be inclined to argue for and others against, as that would require the other interlocutors to spend the most amount of time not talking about what you did wrong. That's because TheDwf pulls out a long ridiculous list of balance changes and you Terrans eat it on this thread and worship him, and when a non-pro Terran viewpoint comes up with a casual list (half not really serious) that puts Terran nerfs(much needed btw), you guys go ape-shit crazy and call them a troll with the 'dont nerf my race bro' mentality.
How were any of those necessary? In the last 6 months Terran got buffed and after 3-4 months we are back to a pretty balanced game.
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On January 31 2015 00:40 plotspot wrote:
This might be the nearest thread for my concern.
Is it just me or are terrans underperforming these days? I notice a couple of months ago terran were some kind of a dominant race. Now it looks like Protoss and Zerg have "more" ways to deal with them, although no changes were made to the game.
I am really interested to hear opinions of keener observers where the differences lie and why this might be like this today. Is this the evolution of the game or it is a passage in a cycle?
I don't think T is underperforming. There has been some volatility due to balance changes and map pool changes, but T also overperformed slightly in the last months (see here) and then returned to roughly 50%. As was already mentioned, this means that in-form players do well (Innovation!!!, woooooo) and out of form players do worse (Flash, Bomber). But overall it seems fine. Also, the hallmark of balance, GSL, has 6T, 5P, 5Z. (It should be mentioned that whether it was 6T,5P or 5T6P was left to final match of the final group, while the series was 1-1, and then the match itself was super close... So don't read too much into the numbers besides the fact that T did not underperform in the GSL.)
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On January 31 2015 08:19 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 00:40 plotspot wrote:
This might be the nearest thread for my concern.
Is it just me or are terrans underperforming these days? I notice a couple of months ago terran were some kind of a dominant race. Now it looks like Protoss and Zerg have "more" ways to deal with them, although no changes were made to the game.
I am really interested to hear opinions of keener observers where the differences lie and why this might be like this today. Is this the evolution of the game or it is a passage in a cycle? I don't think T is underperforming. There has been some volatility due to balance changes and map pool changes, but T also overperformed slightly in the last months (see here) and then returned to roughly 50%. As was already mentioned, this means that in-form players do well (Innovation!!!, woooooo) and out of form players do worse (Flash, Bomber). But overall it seems fine. Also, the hallmark of balance, GSL, has 7T, 5P, 5Z. (It should be mentioned that whether it was 7T,5P or 6T6P was left to final match of the final group, while the series was 1-1, and then the match itself was super close... So don't read too much into the numbers besides the fact that T did not underperform in the GSL.)
I'm pretty sure there are no 17 spots in second group stage.
Terran is not underperforming, it's also not broken as one popular poster claims.
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On January 31 2015 16:54 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2015 08:19 Ghanburighan wrote:On January 31 2015 00:40 plotspot wrote:
This might be the nearest thread for my concern.
Is it just me or are terrans underperforming these days? I notice a couple of months ago terran were some kind of a dominant race. Now it looks like Protoss and Zerg have "more" ways to deal with them, although no changes were made to the game.
I am really interested to hear opinions of keener observers where the differences lie and why this might be like this today. Is this the evolution of the game or it is a passage in a cycle? I don't think T is underperforming. There has been some volatility due to balance changes and map pool changes, but T also overperformed slightly in the last months (see here) and then returned to roughly 50%. As was already mentioned, this means that in-form players do well (Innovation!!!, woooooo) and out of form players do worse (Flash, Bomber). But overall it seems fine. Also, the hallmark of balance, GSL, has 7T, 5P, 5Z. (It should be mentioned that whether it was 7T,5P or 6T6P was left to final match of the final group, while the series was 1-1, and then the match itself was super close... So don't read too much into the numbers besides the fact that T did not underperform in the GSL.) I'm pretty sure there are no 17 spots in second group stage. Terran is not underperforming, it's also not broken as one popular poster claims.
Right, good catch. Edited the post with the correct numbers, the argument remains the same.
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Aligulac for February, 48,93% PvT, 50,03% TvZ, 50,31% PvZ
Not bad.
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Gold medals won by races are balanced, if we see all the $50+ tournaments we have
27 Terran
26 Protoss
24 Zerg
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On March 21 2015 03:31 GodZo wrote:
Gold medals won by races are balanced, if we see all the $50+ tournaments we have
27 Terran
26 Protoss
24 Zerg
Premier tournaments are Z 17 P 25 T 27. Even though protoss had it´s time of domination terran has done best overall in Hots when it comes to winning big tournaments.
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I counted the major tournaments with $50k prize pool or more also...
With the last two tournaments, GSL won by Life and NSSL won by Maru we have:
28 Terran
26 Protoss
25 Zerg
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The GSL code S format (I included the 3 open seasons) is in favour of Zerg:
Medals Gold-Silver-Semifinal
Zerg 10 - 9 - 8
Terran 6 - 8 - 24
Protoss 6 - 5 - 12
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On March 25 2015 10:05 GodZo wrote:
I counted the major tournaments with $50k prize pool or more also...
With the last two tournaments, GSL won by Life and NSSL won by Maru we have:
28 Terran
26 Protoss
25 Zerg
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The GSL code S format (I included the 3 open seasons) is in favour of Zerg:
Medals Gold-Silver-Semifinal
Zerg 10 - 9 - 8
Terran 6 - 8 - 24
Protoss 6 - 5 - 12
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_StarCraft_II_League
Lol of course you included the 3 open seasons that are not code s into your code s statistic.
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PvT is around 46% in last 9 months, seems really bad. What do you think it's a problem here?
PvZ, TvZ around 50% lately.
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Suggestion for Swarmhosts:
Swarmhosts seem overnerverd. I wanna see a cool mechanic to put them back in use that must not be just a buff of locusts or reducing their cooldown!
Blizzard please give the swarmhost 2 new abilities with double the cooldown duration of locusts but a cooldown which is totally indipendent from the locust's one and is being used by both the following abilities:
a) spawn 4 zerglings
b) spawn one overlord
and another ability to transmute one swarmhost into either
1) a roach and 2 zerglings, or
2) a queen
what could be used only once at the end of the swarmhosts life.
This gives swarmhosts some additional utility without encouraging and rebuffung endless locust wars. Finally a reason to build hosts again.
Optional: Make one or both these two new abilities available with a new upgrade at infestation pit.
p.s: The 2 abilities described in a) & b) should become only available to the swarmhost after passing two complete locust spawn cooldowns (which equals one a) / b) cooldown). If that appears too strong make the a) / b) cooldown = 3x locust cooldown.
Greetings
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Protoss will sooner or later figure out air builds against Zerg thanks to the nerfed SH. As of now, most of Protoss go for mass sentries (which are OP by themselves) because they provide reliable wins. If/when Forcefield is nerfed (or before that), someone will come up with air builds that will leave Z in despair. Considering that SH were Zerg's answer to mass Protoss air pre-nerf, it does not take a lot to imagine how air army will fare against Zerg's anti-air. Alicia should consider a comeback.
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On May 30 2015 11:12 usethis2 wrote:
Protoss will sooner or later figure out air builds against Zerg thanks to the nerfed SH. As of now, most of Protoss go for mass sentries (which are OP by themselves) because they provide reliable wins. If/when Forcefield is nerfed (or before that), someone will come up with air builds that will leave Z in despair. Considering that SH were Zerg's answer to mass Protoss air pre-nerf, it does not take a lot to imagine how air army will fare against Zerg's anti-air. Alicia should consider a comeback.
I don´t think air builds are nothing to worry about as long as mix of sentries/blink/immortals and storm is the strongest composition protoss has. Protoss mid-game against Z is crazy strong at the moment.
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EPT
