PlayXP article on NASL, S2CON situation - Page 17

mordk

Chile8385 Posts

August 14 2011 18:38 GMT

#321

Well, I think the real loser here is NASL. The playing level is drastically reduced with only foreigners playing.

Catz must be pretty happy though lol

udgnim

United States8024 Posts

August 14 2011 18:40 GMT

#322

whether SC2Con had any influence or not, it's pretty obvious that the teams banded together on their NASL decision and did not do so independently of each other

they all have the same demands and grievances against NASL and they used Mr. Chae as a representative for "negotiations" between the teams and NASL

NHY

1013 Posts

August 14 2011 18:40 GMT

#323

On August 15 2011 03:38 Slider954 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2011 03:32 NHY wrote:

On August 15 2011 03:28 Dr.Sin wrote:

On August 15 2011 03:25 Fubi wrote:

On August 15 2011 03:15 Dr.Sin wrote:

On August 15 2011 03:03 Fubi wrote:

On August 15 2011 02:53 Dr.Sin wrote:

On August 15 2011 02:51 Fubi wrote: The main point is that each team had individual freedom to make that decision for themselves and no rule or decision was made collectively by S2CON.

It doesn't matter if they had the individual freedom to do it, they still did it collectively. It doesn't matter that it wasn't imposed on them when they decided to act together. The people making the decision within the team are the very same people that run sc2con. It is indistinguishable.

It totally matters and is totally different. Like my example earlier, people at concerts stood up to clap when others around them does it, is totally different from being told at the time they entered that "you must stand up and clap or else you will be asked to leave the concert". One is ethically wrong while the other is a perfectly normal human nature.

The same for S2CON. It is ethically wrong to make a rule or force everyone to withdraw collectively, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with one guy telling his friends that "well I'm gona withdraw, because so and so doesn't seem worth it anymore", and then his friends thought about it and went like "yea you're right, I agree, I think I'm gonna do that too". We all do the latter, it is a part of social nature, while the former is just ethically wrong.

You're swapping one kind of wrong for another kind of wrong. Ultimately, they're still in the wrong. And speaking of ethics, it is still unethical for the teams to withdraw from a tournament through which they went through qualifiers and to break their contracts.

I agree. But that is the whole point tho. It is ethically wrong for S2CON to impose a rule or force all teams to not participate, which was what NASL accused them of, and S2CON is saying that this accusation is baseless and wrong. However they never disagree that what they did individually each team (withdrawing after qualifier, etc) wasn't wrong, however they gave their reasoning for this as well, and most importantly, is irrelevant to what their whole article is about.

This is like a group of high kids going to a music concert, and it sucked, so the kids started throwing rotten tomatoes. It is wrong for the kids to throw the rotten tomatoes for sure. But that doesn't mean their school told or forced the kids to do it. This is the same thing, the school is being accused of such, and they're just making a statement that the kids did so because they saw each other started throwing the tomatoes at first, had nothing to do with the school regardless even if all the kids were from the school.

Fubi: I agree about the disctinction, however to make your analogy really precise it should be:

All the kids in the french club went to see Celine Dion. They hated Celion Dion so they threw tomatoes at her. Then Celine Dion complained that the French Club threw tomatoes at her when it was just all the kids of the french club.

Imres: its all good. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It should be

Some of the kids in the french club went to see Celine Dion. They hated Celion Dion so they threw tomatoes at her. Then Celine Dion complained that the French Club threw tomatoes at her when it was just some of the kids of the french club.

And in that case, people would say that this reflects badly on the French Club, what kind of people do they let join if this is how they act. Remember when you are a member of whatever organization or club you represent said organization. Its like how the NFL and NBA had player conduct policies in place. They don't want their players giving the leagues a bad name by acting like idiots. So even if SC2Con didn't have anything to do with the actual decision, its still reflects badly on them that their 3 teams acted in a such a manner.

You could say that. But you can't say that French Club made them do that and that's the point of this article.

Fubi

2228 Posts

August 14 2011 18:41 GMT

#324

On August 15 2011 03:34 Dr.Sin wrote:
This is where I'm missing a piece of information: did any team within sc2con choose to not withdraw (aside from FXO, which is no longer part of sc2con)? My understanding is all the koreans withdrew, in and out of sc2con.

I believe all the teams within S2CON as well as 2-3 other teams outside of S2CON (so pretty much every korean team) decided not to participate. *edit: (half of the S2CON teams weren't participating in the first place. Refer to NHY's first post, only 3 of the teams from S2CON are actually involved in this)

Doesn't the fact that every team outside of S2CON decided not to participate show even more so that it has nothing to do with S2CON the organization itself, but more so with how NASL dealt with the matter or how it is structured, that every Korean teams decided it isn't worth it? Anyways, I'm not trying to justify their actions or saying it is right or wrong. I'm just saying that this article saying that S2CON had nothing to do with it, is indeed correct and reasonable.

farvacola

United States18869 Posts

August 14 2011 18:43 GMT

#325

The real question here is, why are is the SC2CON so important to the Koreans, and why does it require such a vigorous defense? Why are the players and then teams de-emphasized over and over again in respect to every major Korean-International interaction? Perhaps most importantly, why have we never heard about SC2CON until there seems to be nothing but negativity?

JinDesu

United States3990 Posts

August 14 2011 18:45 GMT

#326

On August 15 2011 03:43 farvacola wrote:
The real question here is, why are is the SC2CON so important to the Koreans, and why does it require such a vigorous defense? Why are the players and then teams de-emphasized over and over again in respect to every major Korean-International interaction? Perhaps most importantly, why have we never heard about SC2CON until there seems to be nothing but negativity?

Because perhaps you aren't a korean person who is on korean sites and would get far more exposure to something a korean association does?

Slider954

United States342 Posts

August 14 2011 18:46 GMT

#327

On August 15 2011 03:45 JinDesu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because perhaps you aren't a korean person who is on korean sites and would get far more exposure to something a korean association does?

They why on actual Korean sites are the feeling toward SC2Con pretty much the same as here?

Nerdslayer

Denmark1130 Posts

August 14 2011 18:47 GMT

#328

On August 15 2011 03:35 Imres wrote:

Show nested quote +

Imagination doesn't prove anything sorry for you

I dont need proff to make up my mind its very easy to read between the lines wtf is going on here.

Aperently the korean sc2 leaders has been in training by Kim Il-sung in how to control a "society"

MichaelDonovan

United States1453 Posts

August 14 2011 18:50 GMT

#329

Sounds like NASL is being unprofessional again.

Zirith

Canada403 Posts

August 14 2011 18:50 GMT

#330

The main problem with online cross world tourneys is time restrictions, Koreans were being forced to play at ungodly hours when they were exhausted in order to participate, and after the first few times they probably realized that it was a load off shit and they had no way to get out of it unless they forfeited their $250 deposit.

farvacola

United States18869 Posts

August 14 2011 18:51 GMT

#331

On August 15 2011 03:45 JinDesu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because perhaps you aren't a korean person who is on korean sites and would get far more exposure to something a korean association does?

Both PlayXP and TiG are full to the brim with KOREAN netizen reactions that are asking the same questions I am. More bullshit please.

Dr.Sin

Canada1126 Posts

August 14 2011 18:51 GMT

#332

Fubi: I concede your point. I misunderstood.

Isaac

United States810 Posts

August 14 2011 18:54 GMT

#333

What is S2con, and What is SC2Con?
I don't understand any of this, I want too, but i don't.
I just want the good guys to be the korean teams.

Slider954

United States342 Posts

August 14 2011 18:56 GMT

#334

On August 15 2011 03:47 Nerdslayer wrote:

Show nested quote +

I dont need proff to make up my mind its very easy to read between the lines wtf is going on here.

Aperently the korean sc2 leaders has been in training by Kim Il-sung in how to control a "society"

Wow really dude?? Comparing the leaders of a gaming group to a facist, power hungry, commits atrocious crimes against his own people world leader??? REALLY?? As much as I don't like SC2Con and their role in all this. thats just plain wrong. Just compare them to Hitler while you are it.

BuddhaMonk

781 Posts

August 14 2011 18:57 GMT

#335

On August 15 2011 03:47 Nerdslayer wrote:

Show nested quote +

I dont need proff to make up my mind its very easy to read between the lines wtf is going on here.

Aperently the korean sc2 leaders has been in training by Kim Il-sung in how to control a "society"

Seriously man, what are you talking about?

NHY

1013 Posts

August 14 2011 18:59 GMT

#336

On August 15 2011 03:51 farvacola wrote:

Show nested quote +

Both PlayXP and TiG are full to the brim with KOREAN netizen reactions that are asking the same questions I am. More bullshit please.

No, there's hardly anyone asking "what is S2CON?"

If you are referring to the posts like "why is S2CON doing this?" Those posts are results of NASL's claim that S2CON was blocking teams from participating in NASL. Note that NASL has since retracted that claim.

IcedBacon

Canada906 Posts

August 14 2011 19:03 GMT

#337

So what I've learned from all this drama is that when in doubt, the Koreans are probably the ones that are telling the truth or are right. Okay.

Usagi

Spain1647 Posts

August 14 2011 19:05 GMT

#338

Now choya says taht SC didnt want to participate? Such Bullshit. Boss stated that SC wanted to participate all along. AND THEY WERE WAITING ON SC2CON STATEMENT.
Gives me the feeling that while not directly deciding, sc2con looks like an undermining agent.

NHY

1013 Posts

August 14 2011 19:06 GMT

#339

On August 15 2011 04:05 Usagi wrote:
Now choya says taht SC didnt want to participate? Such Bullshit. Boss stated that SC wanted to participate all along. AND THEY WERE WAITING ON SC2CON STATEMENT.
Gives me the feeling that while not directly deciding, sc2con looks like an undermining agent.

Seung-Chul "sC" Kim was one of many Koreans who qualified for NASL Season 2 through their qualifier tournaments, but according to Josh "BoSs" Dentrinos, the FXOpen manager, the NASL schedule affected sC's Global Starcraft League practice schedule too much.

http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/xeris-miscommunication-blame-nasl-s2con-controversy