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On August 12 2011 19:02 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule.
You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule.
You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:
[quote]
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Again, why is talking about this during the preparation time unreasonable? that's exactly the time to talk about it, there's nothing unreasonable about it. And i think there was enough time fo NASL to comply, but they just couldn't or wouldn't. No contracts were signed, they talked about it, things didn't work out, they withdrew. I don't understand what's wrong with that...
The preparation time takes place after the Korean players have qualified for season 2. Its not even about contracts being signed or not. Its about teams having their players go through qualifiers knowing what the terms are only to pull them out later because they don't like the terms. Just don't attempt to qualify.
It may have been long enough if the communication was perfect, but clearly it was not. NASL had to go through Mr. Chae for this whole thing as sc2con wasn't communicating with them. NASL made up a plan and it took sc2con awhile to reject it.
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On August 12 2011 19:03 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule.
You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule.
You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:
[quote]
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Read my post. It's standard procedure to talk about this stuff at during the offseason. If NASL wanted more time, they should have scheduled more time. If Koreans made a big fuss about lag and scheduling during the tournament, it would have been seen as excuses and whining which would have cast a shadow on their play. They did the right thing by complaining when they were supposed to...it's not their problem that scheduling didn't allow for a bigger window.
Standard procedure where? NASL is not other organizations. Koreans making a fuss about lag and scheduling to the tournament admins doesn't get viewed as excuses as it shouldn't ever be in the public. This should all take place behind closed doors as it doesnt involve the public.
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On August 12 2011 19:05 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:03 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:56 Novalisk wrote:On August 12 2011 18:50 jmbthirteen wrote:
Total amount of money won by Koreans (on Korean based teams) at NASL Final: $84,500
Average earnings per Korean(on Korean based teams) at NASL Final: $10,562.50
Only Zenio, Boxer and Alive won the minimum $500 prize for 9-16th. The next two lowest finishers of the Koreans were Squirtle and Moon who both made $1,500. July won $5,000. MC won $25,000 and Puma won $50,000
Of teams that went:
TSL won $50,500
oGs won $25,500
ST won $6,500
Fox won $1,500
Slayers won $500
I would say the Koreans made out pretty damn well on average from NASL. Teams should have in their contracts with players (if they have contracts... thats another discussion) that they receive a certain percentage of their players winnings. Teams definitely can make money off of NASL participation. Keep in mind there is more to this than prize money. Most Korean teams don't have worldwide sponsors, and the korean-brand sponsors have no incentive to send the players abroad. If anything they'd prefer their players to keep a regular sleep schedule, so their GSL performance stays unhindered. Of course there is. But thats why teams should be taking a portion of the winnings. Foreign teams do this. I remember Idra talking about this and how EG does receive a portion of his winnings. Its a pretty standard thing. I completely understand why Korean teams are not playing in NASL. They can't afford to. Thats fine. But I think its ridiculous to ask NASL to pay for them to be in it. I also think its ridiculous that they went and qualified for the tournament only to drop out right at the start of the season. Then it should also be ridiculous that they had to play in sub par conditions throughout online phase as well as not be given time to voice complaints. Think for a second about the implications that would have for the tournament if they made a big stink about scheduling and latency and pay while everyone was still playing.
You can complain whenever the hell you want to. You just don't make the complaints public. You go to Xeris and Russ, the tournament admins, and try to come up with a solution. You think the NFL and the NFLPA didn't have talks during the season about their dispute? They did. You should constantly be working to better your conditions, not just in the off season, especially when its so short. How is NASL supposed to know that the Korean teams are broke and have no money to fly to the Finals? Agreeing to join the tournament is implying that they do have the funds.
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def. not buying this time, or even watching for that matter.
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I wouldn't mind seeing some Chinese players instead.
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On August 12 2011 19:00 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:57 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 18:52 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:48 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:27 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately  It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. It's a $1000 travel stipend and a rearrangement of prize money to make it easier for the teams that can't afford to send their players to go by dipping into that prize money. They aren't asking the Koreans to pay out of the prize money, they're doubling the Ro16 prize money to make it easier on players who do need to dip into it in order to go. That's exactly what I said, don't see why you needed to repeat it. On August 12 2011 18:27 Saraf wrote:It's a reasonable offer; if they made other accommodations (such as play times) they probably could have worked something out at the negotiating table that doesn't lead to NASL quadrupling Season 1's travel stipend. But SC2con wouldn't even come to the table, or so it seems. Whether it's reasonable is a subjective argument. I personally don't think it's reasonable. Also, SC2con asked them to pay for full traveling expenses for those that made it to the finals. NASL just wouldn't/couldn't accomodate. I repeated it because you're spinning it into NASL being the bad guys for giving them that option. It's not as nice as a $2000 travel budget but maybe that's just something NASL can't afford to do. NASL is making that option available to them to ensure that nobody (or no team) loses money by going to the finals like last time (Boxer, Alive, Zenio). SC2con made a pretty hefty demand of ~$1200 more in travel money per Korean player attending the Finals, which if it's anything like last time will be something like 8-10 (since there were going to be more Koreans this season). That's over $10000 that they wanted from NASL, and NASL offered to give them half plus the other concession. If they'd actually talked to NASL (apparently SC2con wasn't in the business of returning e-mails) then they might have gotten some non-monetary concessions like better scheduling and fixed wait times (no more than an hour, for instance) that made the whole deal more acceptable, or perhaps consented to fines for players who no-showed in lieu of some of the deposit. NASL's response of "we'll give you half to start and let's talk this out" is perfectly reasonable (and if you disagree, please tell me why) from a negotiating standpoint but SC2con would have none of it. Why are you just assuming they weren't returning e-mails and were not willing to talk? Can you give us some source? Without it what you're saying doesn't carry much weight.. as in the original post I see nothing about sc2con not willing to talk about it. I'm not assuming that, Xeris posted somewhere in this thread that SC2con would not return their e-mails and that Mr. Chae was their only point of contact; I will edit this post if I manage to dig it out. It was definitely either Xeris posting or NASL.tv, one of the two. Even if sc2con did not return email, that's quite different from them not willing to talk... assuming dr. chae communicated effectively
I'm sure Mr. Chae did his best to mediate, but the fact remains that SC2con refused to have direct contact with NASL. There's another post (which I am not going to go back and find because finding the first one was a PitA) about how when NASL made counter-offers the demands were simply reiterated.
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On August 12 2011 19:07 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:02 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:
[quote]
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Again, why is talking about this during the preparation time unreasonable? that's exactly the time to talk about it, there's nothing unreasonable about it. And i think there was enough time fo NASL to comply, but they just couldn't or wouldn't. No contracts were signed, they talked about it, things didn't work out, they withdrew. I don't understand what's wrong with that... The preparation time takes place after the Korean players have qualified for season 2. Its not even about contracts being signed or not. Its about teams having their players go through qualifiers knowing what the terms are only to pull them out later because they don't like the terms. Just don't attempt to qualify. It may have been long enough if the communication was perfect, but clearly it was not. NASL had to go through Mr. Chae for this whole thing as sc2con wasn't communicating with them. NASL made up a plan and it took sc2con awhile to reject it.
How is Dr. Chae being the communication source "sc2con not communicating?" Dr. Chae is in charge of almost all foreign tournament relations and is in charge of GSL, he was communicating for sc2con. Saying they didn't communicate because they talked through a mediator is stupid. (also they may have talked through dr. chae due to language problems)
They qualified, talked about the terms before season started/contracts were signed, withdrew. What's the problem here? I think you're giving qualification more meaning than it carries..
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TBH they should be paying for all of top players(Top 5) expenses whether they are korean or not. It just happens to be koreans are leaps and bounds ahead of foreigners. If they want people tuning in to watch the best of the best (Star league) they need to invest in bringing the players over that people want to watch.
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On August 12 2011 18:05 IceDice wrote:
Are the european and other non-US players getting their trips paid for ?
No reason to give the korean players special treatment if you ask me.
No they're not. And I agree with you 
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Are the europeans the best players in the world? Are they the guys that attract the biggest crowds? No.
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On August 12 2011 19:07 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:02 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:
[quote]
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Again, why is talking about this during the preparation time unreasonable? that's exactly the time to talk about it, there's nothing unreasonable about it. And i think there was enough time fo NASL to comply, but they just couldn't or wouldn't. No contracts were signed, they talked about it, things didn't work out, they withdrew. I don't understand what's wrong with that... The preparation time takes place after the Korean players have qualified for season 2. Its not even about contracts being signed or not. Its about teams having their players go through qualifiers knowing what the terms are only to pull them out later because they don't like the terms. Just don't attempt to qualify. It may have been long enough if the communication was perfect, but clearly it was not. NASL had to go through Mr. Chae for this whole thing as sc2con wasn't communicating with them. NASL made up a plan and it took sc2con awhile to reject it.
Teams don't actually know what the terms are until contracts are set. That's the point of the contract to actually set the terms for what the players and organizations will do. Because of the fact that there was actually NO time scheduled between season 1 and qualifiers for any sort of complaint to be voiced, I don't see how that doesn't fall on NASL for poor scheduling.
On August 12 2011 19:09 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:03 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:
[quote]
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Read my post. It's standard procedure to talk about this stuff at during the offseason. If NASL wanted more time, they should have scheduled more time. If Koreans made a big fuss about lag and scheduling during the tournament, it would have been seen as excuses and whining which would have cast a shadow on their play. They did the right thing by complaining when they were supposed to...it's not their problem that scheduling didn't allow for a bigger window. Standard procedure where? NASL is not other organizations. Koreans making a fuss about lag and scheduling to the tournament admins doesn't get viewed as excuses as it shouldn't ever be in the public. This should all take place behind closed doors as it doesnt involve the public.
Why not? It's part of their demands and grievances and it's up to the organizer to address that. Your stance on keeping things behind closed doors is no different from our stance on the offseason or contract issues. The world doesn't cater to the event organizer, the event organizer caters to the world. It's up to them to make things happen or find alternatives, not up to everyone to play nice and bend over.
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I really think they are a bit full of them selves. The conditions offered by NASL are way better then others get. Even if they are the best players...treating this issue like they own the planet is just unacceptable...
After a few tournaments when they will see prize polls will go up and more competition will appear outside Korea, they will be begging to come back, considering they rules + money in Korea is almost 0 compared to what u can get outside.
If they treat this issue like how they treated NASL, i foresee alot of korean players joining foreign teams in the end, which will make the quality of GSL go down even further.
Now GSL is only held by a handful of players that attract attention.
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On August 12 2011 19:15 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 19:02 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 19:00 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:54 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. They were made in preparation for season 2. Which is when complaints should be made. Most teams wait until the offseason to do CBA's and the like so it doesn't interfere with or take away from the current play. It doesn't help that qualifiers took place during season 1 and the qualifiers were extremely rushed. On August 12 2011 18:35 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument. I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying. They need to make up their mind before qualifying? What are they making up their mind on? AFAIK, there is no set contract laid out before them that addresses the issues at hand before, or during qualifiers. If anything, that's the fault of the organizers for not getting on top of the ball and either having a contract or a contingency. And stop with the argument about the timing of their complaint. They complained in preparation for season 2. That is when they should be complaining. Not in the middle of season 1 playoffs where the complaints will cast a shadow over the remainder of the tournament given the Korean presence there. On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. Again, that is when they should be making complaints to get things changed for season 2. On August 12 2011 18:39 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:
[quote]
I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began. I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for? ^This. You might as well blame the scheduling if you're going to complain about when the Koreans complained. Which is completely under NASL control. With qualifiers being at the tail end of season 1, you can't wait until season 1 is finished to make these complaints. They need to be made before qualifiers to allow NASL to try and comply. Players and teams need to make up their mind about playing in the tournament. Pretty straight forward. No contract will be signed or offered before a player qualifies for the tournament. If they had a long off season, then sure a complaint between the season makes sense. But when qualifiers take place at the end of season 1 and the off season is about a month, it needs to be talked about before then. Again, why is talking about this during the preparation time unreasonable? that's exactly the time to talk about it, there's nothing unreasonable about it. And i think there was enough time fo NASL to comply, but they just couldn't or wouldn't. No contracts were signed, they talked about it, things didn't work out, they withdrew. I don't understand what's wrong with that... The preparation time takes place after the Korean players have qualified for season 2. Its not even about contracts being signed or not. Its about teams having their players go through qualifiers knowing what the terms are only to pull them out later because they don't like the terms. Just don't attempt to qualify. It may have been long enough if the communication was perfect, but clearly it was not. NASL had to go through Mr. Chae for this whole thing as sc2con wasn't communicating with them. NASL made up a plan and it took sc2con awhile to reject it. How is Dr. Chae being the communication source "sc2con not communicating?" Dr. Chae is in charge of almost all foreign tournament relations and is in charge of GSL, he was communicating for sc2con. Saying they didn't communicate because they talked through a mediator is stupid. (also they may have talked through dr. chae due to language problems) They qualified, talked about the terms before season started/contracts were signed, withdrew. What's the problem here? I think you're giving qualification more meaning than it carries..
It screwed over players in the qualifiers and lost to those who qualified. It screws over the players who qualified for NASL (the Korean players) that wanted to play in NASL. It screws over NASL as they have to fix all this shit now.
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This is really unfortunate, and in my opinion rather petty of the koreans/teams who are withdrawing. Personally I think I will be boycotting those players/teams by not watching them play in the GSL. If you consider how much more money these Korean players make compared to foreigners who have always had to travel all over the world for tournaments, it looks pretty selfish to me.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Koreans no money? Time to withdraw from their stock exchange.
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On August 12 2011 19:19 Nasty.Nate wrote:
This is really unfortunate, and in my opinion rather petty of the koreans/teams who are withdrawing. Personally I think I will be boycotting those players/teams by not watching them play in the GSL. If you consider how much more money these Korean players make compared to foreigners who have always had to travel all over the world for tournaments, it looks pretty selfish to me.
Most korean players don't get a salary (except perhaps 5 or 10). Starcraft 2 is not profitable in any way inside of Korea except for perhaps the top 5-10 players. Korean pro / team houses operate mostly at a loss or barely breaking even.
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According to FXOBoSs, the real reason for the Koreans to pull back is not financial reasons as it is obvious that NASL offered a very good deal, but rather for an disclosed reason. FXOBoSs just said that on his twitch TV stream ( http://www.twitch.tv/FXOBoSs)while he him self is a part of the SC2Con.
About FXOSC, he said that SC really wants to participate, but as a part of SC2Con BoSs said that SC cannot participate, but there is still hope for SC as he will talk to the SC2Con and see if they will agree on that.
FXOBoSs talks about all sort of stuff about SC2 and easports in general. I personally love listening to his comments and opinions.
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On August 12 2011 19:21 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:19 Nasty.Nate wrote:
This is really unfortunate, and in my opinion rather petty of the koreans/teams who are withdrawing. Personally I think I will be boycotting those players/teams by not watching them play in the GSL. If you consider how much more money these Korean players make compared to foreigners who have always had to travel all over the world for tournaments, it looks pretty selfish to me. Most korean players don't get a salary (except perhaps 5 or 10). Starcraft 2 is not profitable in any way inside of Korea except for perhaps the top 5-10 players. Korean pro / team houses operate mostly at a loss or barely breaking even.
Says who ?
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To all who say "I will not watch season 2" or whatever... What a joke. I mean "our" players. The Foreigners, but I want to call them european and american, they give much for playing sc2, they also train hard for all of this. But they don´t get any special treatment. You read a list of tournament participations. When theres a korean name you go " Oh a korean, i want to watch this oh they are so fucking good." and then you readt those other names like IdRa, Select, Naniwa, and Thorzain and you say " Ah okay, same as everyday.
Why should we give these douchebags money for all costs. If they don´t want to participate its their thing. I think this is really bad for our players and I don´t think we should accept things like giving the korean super special VIP treatment just because we want to see them. Give some foreign support...
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why do people care so much whether or not they will get to see koreans ? difference in skill level isnt that high anymore, at least not as high as it is @ BW. there are dozens of non-korean players i'd rather see than koreans. big fuss over nothing imo, NASL went so far with the player stipend money, yet they still refuse, its their choice.
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EPT
