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On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:
[quote]
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify?
Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot.
Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time.
I don't get your argument.
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On August 12 2011 08:25 Soleron wrote:SPECULATION BASED ON NASL BRACKETS + Show Spoiler +Players declining (14):
alive
clide
revival
top
mkp
check
polt
moon
july
squirtle
zenio
ensnare
ace
mc
I think Hero's still in because he's Liquid.
Replacements from the two qualifiers (?)
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro16 of open bracket and not part of those teams:
bubbles
linko
knowme
demuslim
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro16 of S2 qualifier
time
optikzero
ryung
bubbles
hwangsin
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro32 of open bracket
hashe
hawk
gatored
deathangel
major
inka
avilo
future
sterling
everize
cocoa
jobless
attero
killer
mrglouk
death
agh
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro32 of S2 qualifier
targa
gatored
choya
lalush
howareyou
nerchio
minigun
alicia
kAsyu
Twilight
Jinro
zerker
capoch
killer
So.. 9 replacements from the first two and some sort of playoff for the last spots? Or maybe just from the S2 qualifier?
wow, those names all look terrible (no disrespect to the players) and won't make the NASL attractive to watch. Let's hope the new players will be invited rather than selected on these qualifiers and stuff. Players who should have been in in the first place, and players who will bring viewers and wont go 0-8.
Jinro
Dimaga
Destiny
Catz
Grubby
DeMuslim
Hero
...
And possibly some invites from korean teams that DO like to participate.
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On August 12 2011 18:22 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:21 Lobo2me wrote:
It's not exactly like you get there at 4 and you play your game. You sign in at 4, and if you are the first game and your opponent is ready, then you might play it first. In many cases last season the koreans were sitting from 4 to 8 waiting for an opponent that didn't actually show up, I know July did that in one of his first games (he chose the walkover instead of a regame). FFS, you can reschedule your games within reason. The NASL has been clear about this since day one. This is a waste of time.
And yet there were many situations where korean players signed in at 4 and waited for 3-4 hours for no opponent. And that's only the situations I know of where there were walkovers and that was given as a reason for the korean choosing the walkover instead of rescheduling, I didn't hear anything about everyone that woke up at 4 to sign in (like every player had to do) and played their game last.
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Sad things! i probably wouldnt have bought a season ticket, but now im 100% sure i won't. Hope it's not too much of a blow for NASL...
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On August 12 2011 18:27 Saraf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately  It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. It's a $1000 travel stipend and a rearrangement of prize money to make it easier for the teams that can't afford to send their players to go by dipping into that prize money. They aren't asking the Koreans to pay out of the prize money, they're doubling the Ro16 prize money to make it easier on players who do need to dip into it in order to go.
That's exactly what I said, don't see why you needed to repeat it.
On August 12 2011 18:27 Saraf wrote:It's a reasonable offer; if they made other accommodations (such as play times) they probably could have worked something out at the negotiating table that doesn't lead to NASL quadrupling Season 1's travel stipend. But SC2con wouldn't even come to the table, or so it seems.
Whether it's reasonable is a subjective argument. I personally don't think it's reasonable to ask the players to use the prize money to pay for their traveling expenses. Also, SC2con asked them to pay for full traveling expenses for those that made it to the finals. NASL just wouldn't/couldn't accomodate.
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On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
bottom 8 spots?
But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals.
Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then.
i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so
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On August 12 2011 18:31 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize.
Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? Not to agree or disagree but... Players qualify -> don't like the tournament or can't attend due to other circumstances -> withdraw / decline tournament spot. Happens in the North American / EU scene all the time. I don't get your argument.
I don't like it and hate that it happens in any tournament by any player, regardless of where they are from. Its unprofessional. The players that qualify knew what they were getting into. They need to make their mind up before qualifying.
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That really sucks.. can't say NASL didn't try as they made a great offer from my point of view. Yet without Koreans or barely any Koreans NASL is not as interesting and I certainly won't pay a ticket to watch.. If I watch at all T_T.
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On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Bottom 8 in the grand finals.
Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so
they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began.
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Good news, I was watching too many streams anyway 
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On August 12 2011 18:37 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:33 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:30 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
yes it will.. see how useful this is?
And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1? They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then. i'm pretty sure complaints about scheduling was made public by a few during nasl 1. We don't know if they talked about the stipends. I think they just didnt collectively talk about this during season 1 and ended up doing so between season 1 and 2.. which seems fine. If they talked about it for only like a couple of days then i'd say that's a problem, but we don't really know that so they made no official complaints or asked for things to be changed until preparation for season 2 began.
I don't understand your point. Isn't that what "preparation time" is for?
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On August 12 2011 17:43 Jinsho wrote:
Good! This will make me watch the NASL again. I am tired of watching Koreans in every tournament.
How does this not sound racist?
I can understand people's disappointment in only Korean players making it to the finals, but to use a overused cliche don't hate the player... hate the game.
It reminds me of Street Fighter tournaments when the Japanese would come to America and take all the prize money. You can't get mad at the Japanese for playing better than the non Japanese. Same with Starcraft 2 and Brood War, the Koreans just have better skillsets currently than others.
I don't think someone that truly wants to be better at Starcraft 2 would say "This is bullshit I'm not watching the NASL finals because it's two Koreans playing." That just sounds like a casual player or a diehard fan making a comment.
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This is too bad.... the Koreans bring some amazing competition to the table. Was looking forward to another Idra vs MC matchup.
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On August 12 2011 18:17 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:14 Kavas wrote:
watching people play and actually playing the game at their level are 2 different things. That doesn't even make any sense. I can sit down at 4 AM and play a set at the top of my game, go to bed, and wake up around 9 or 10 and be fine for the day with a cup of coffee. The same problem occurs for europeans and ozzies, too. And they're not bitching. It's like saying that all tournaments shouldn't start until 2PM because some players are insomniacs. If you can't make the times, don't play in the damned tournament. period. It's in no way the tournament's job to bend itself over backwards for a specific group of players. End of story.
Except it's not happening for Europeans. 5am game time Korea would be like 4pm on east coast in US and 10pm in central Europe. You tell me which is more reasonable. Not to mention, just because it's something you do, doesn't mean progamers at the top of their game can do the same.
On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months.
I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
They were given 1 week notice to qualify or sit out. During that time, both sides probably wanted the contract to be hashed out. The fact remains, there was no contract in place. You don't know when these complaints were voiced. "In preparation for season 2" could well mean during qualifiers as that is part of the prep for season 2. Don't set up a tournament and invite players without contracts and then not have a contingency when people don't play.
On August 12 2011 18:22 Spidinko wrote:
Is it just me or are they demanding too much? It's ridiculous. Any sort of special treatment should have been stopped after first invites. It's obvious they are capable of winning tournaments here. If they don't want to come, then let them.
Such a big difference between Koreans coming here and foreigners going to Korea.
Odds to win are also very different.
In my eyes, you did way too much to accommodate them and they still refused.
It's something they could have given some heads up on.
When Koreans invite foreigners through their promotions and events, they get a free plane ride, room at GOM house, help with arranging practices and practice houses, and GOM going out of their way to make sure they get to play for the duration of their trip. GOM actually went and rescheduled code A in order for Naniwa & co to make it to foreign events. Compare that to NASL scheduling ungodly game times to accommodate NA/EU and not covering a 3 day stay. Are you sure it's so ridiculous? GSL doesn't stack odds against the foreigners by having them play with extra lag or at 5am in the morning. The only thing against the foreigners is the skill level which is something that is up to the foreigners to improve. Please think about this in relation to your post.
On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
This. They complained during prep for season 2 and pulled out before season 2 officially began. That's all it comes down to. If you want to find fault, I don't see why you aren't also pointing the finger at NASL for having such short qualifier notice, for open invites, and for not securing contracts.
On August 12 2011 18:24 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. chances are, I'm sure NASL wanted koreans to qualify while the negotiation was going.
This is also true. At the start, I'm sure both parties wanted this to work out. Koreans wanted to win the easy money. NASL wants Koreans to bring in more viewers to get more sponsorship dollars. It's not like NASL gets nothing out of having the Koreans there and it's not like the Koreans didn't lose an opportunity to win some serious cash and get more recognition.
On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:
[quote]
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify?
Key words seem to be "To me" and "It seems." Qualifiers were extremely rushed, and like has been posted, at the time, both parties wanted this to work out. Obviously it didn't and you can say it's because the Koreans were playing hard ball but that would not have been the case if they weren't shafted in season 1.
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It's a shame that so many koreans will be missing, but there were to be honest a bit too many koreans in the league already. Koreans produce more high level games, but i don't watch NASL to see koreans play each other, i watch it because i want to see foreigners compete. It might just be me, but i find it easier to relate to and cheer for foreign players, which is why i prefer to watch tournaments that aren't completly dominated by koreans for a change.
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The NASL is not easy for koreans to participate, considering multiple cases of players messing up their sleep schedule only to receive a walkover. It undoubtedly takes a toll on their overall performance for the GSL, so it's not surprising the korean team managers want it to be worth while. The security deposit might not seem much for one player, but for a team that wants to enter multiple players that is a lot of money tied up for a lengthy period, and as we've seen the korean teams aren't flowing with money with the exception of a few(SlayerS, FXO).
I like the level of transparency displayed by the NASL, and getting the same from the korean teams would be nice in order to get a clearer view of the situation.
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On August 12 2011 18:32 Siphyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:25 Soleron wrote:SPECULATION BASED ON NASL BRACKETS + Show Spoiler +Players declining (14):
alive
clide
revival
top
mkp
check
polt
moon
july
squirtle
zenio
ensnare
ace
mc
I think Hero's still in because he's Liquid.
Replacements from the two qualifiers (?)
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro16 of open bracket and not part of those teams:
bubbles
linko
knowme
demuslim
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro16 of S2 qualifier
time
optikzero
ryung
bubbles
hwangsin
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro32 of open bracket
hashe
hawk
gatored
deathangel
major
inka
avilo
future
sterling
everize
cocoa
jobless
attero
killer
mrglouk
death
agh
PLAYERS LOST IN Ro32 of S2 qualifier
targa
gatored
choya
lalush
howareyou
nerchio
minigun
alicia
kAsyu
Twilight
Jinro
zerker
capoch
killer
So.. 9 replacements from the first two and some sort of playoff for the last spots? Or maybe just from the S2 qualifier? wow, those names all look terrible (no disrespect to the players) and won't make the NASL attractive to watch. Let's hope the new players will be invited rather than selected on these qualifiers and stuff. Players who should have been in in the first place, and players who will bring viewers and wont go 0-8. Jinro Dimaga Destiny Catz Grubby DeMuslim Hero ... And possibly some invites from korean teams that DO like to participate.
Don't know if this is true, but I heard that Slayers retreated a long time ago.
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I like the level of transparency displayed by the NASL, and getting the same from the korean teams would be nice in order to get a clearer view of the situation.
damn I like the way you are thinking. Not about blaming but looking at the solution. Let's face it, everyone loses from this fallout.
you should negotiate for these guys.
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On August 12 2011 18:14 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:05 IceDice wrote:
Are the european and other non-US players getting their trips paid for ?
No reason to give the korean players special treatment if you ask me. There's plenty of reason on NASL's part for them to do that. Koreans participating/not participating practically decides the level of the tournament.
Well then would you prefer they invite only koreans and have no foreigners participating ?
It would increase the level of the tournament for sure and if that's all that matters...
Bottom line is SC2 is not tennis or golf, it's not nearly a big enough sport to justify paying the "best" players just to come and compete in a tournament.
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On August 12 2011 08:42 justinpal wrote:
It's because we are a AA+ nation now. The Koreans don't trust us to pay back their security deposit. Blame Congress.
This post is definitely the best one on this issue :D
On topic, that's a sad news, but I'll still watch the NASL (like all of us will at one time or another). GL to them !
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EPT
