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On August 12 2011 18:18 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:17 iCanada wrote:On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately  It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. No, they are giving Koreans special treatment in that Koreans all are guaranteed 1000$ in prizes. Basically, it is impossible for a Korean to not make money on the tournament. lol? you know the plane ticket alone costs more than 1000 dollars, right? and it's a travel stipend for only those going to the grand finals.
Yeah, only those going to the Finals need a ticket to America. The rest of the games are played online.
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On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months.
I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
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On August 12 2011 18:17 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. No, they are giving Koreans special treatment in that Koreans all are guaranteed 1000$ in prizes. Basically, it is impossible for a Korean to not make money on the tournament.
On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote:
We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation.
EACH player, not just Koreans. Sorry, but you're just wrong. It's not special treatment.
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On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months.
I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
chances are, I'm sure NASL wanted koreans to qualify while the negotiation was going.
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On August 12 2011 18:23 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:18 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:17 iCanada wrote:On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. No, they are giving Koreans special treatment in that Koreans all are guaranteed 1000$ in prizes. Basically, it is impossible for a Korean to not make money on the tournament. lol? you know the plane ticket alone costs more than 1000 dollars, right? and it's a travel stipend for only those going to the grand finals. Yeah, only those going to the Finals need a ticket to America. The rest of the games are played online.
As I said, they're only paying 1k to those people who qualify to attend the grand finals. So no not all koreans can make money, in fact, a majority of them will make none.
edit: oh never mind-i reread the post, and i'm entirely wrong, sorry
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On August 12 2011 17:48 Bleak wrote:
Nothing to argue or bitch about. NASL has its rules, either they comply and join, or they don't. Noone has to get special treatment.
And the Koreans had grievances they wanted addressed in their new contract. Which wasn't hammered out so they left. Nothing to complain about there.
On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's.
It's a huge commitment if you think about how they basically need to reschedule 3 months worth of time around those bo/3s.
On August 12 2011 17:54 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:52 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. Like I stated, for MLG none of the koreans had to pay their way- either MLG, sponsors, or foreign teams picked up the tab. From what the Koreans are saying they have a hard time getting sponsorship money to keep the teams afloat so they can't send all these players. They've also said that the constant schedule changes, along with the fact that they have to wake up at ungodly hours to play their matches, is terrible (although that's not what's at hand here) Then don't sign up for qualifiers. They knew all of this before hand. All this wouldn't matter if they just didn't qualify. You don't wait until you have 14 players in the league and then ask NASL to change everything
Maybe NASL should give contracts at qualifiers saying that they are bound to compete then? AFAIK, all you have to do to play in the qualifiers is sign up and pay. Since it doesn't seem like that is the case, it doesn't matter if you qualify, you don't actually have to compete until you finish that contract. As an organizer, it's up to you to get the event running and to have contingencies. As a team/player organization, it's up to you to get the most for your players. While the move by the Koreans is kinda low, it's not like they weren't treated like crap by NASL in season 1 and the onus still falls on NASL to get their event going. Not to mention, there was literally a 1 week period to sign up. If they didn't do it then, they're out of luck.
On August 12 2011 17:57 BootySmakaRaX wrote:
Id just like to point out that after all this talk about who is right or wrong no one has mentioned that the Europeans or non korean international players have not said anything about drawing out.
Drawing out? In terms of complaints, it was basically the Koreans who had to deal with the piss poor scheduling and latency issues. I don't see why Euros or NA would complain about that.
On August 12 2011 17:58 MoooN1 wrote:
best news in a long time
finally the nasl is ixciting again!
getting sick of the koreans raping eu/us players
when i wanna watch koreans i go watch the gsl
Then get your favorite EU/US players to get better. It's not the Koreans fault that they practice harder and commit more than anyone else.
On August 12 2011 17:59 Proko wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 Honeybadger wrote:On August 12 2011 17:42 Bobster wrote:The big players in the Korean SC2 scene all have the BW history.
They're probably used to getting their way without question as far as international competition (as limited as it was in the BW days) goes. that's what pisses me off. GOM is not KeSPA. They aren't a monopoly, they aren't the best (arguably) and they don't have fair right to do this. I think this is a bad sign for korean teams, sadly enough. It's bad enough that lots of koreans are joining foreign teams. You are basing ur judgements on misinformed facts. Gom is not involved in this matter (as countless others have already pointed out), it costs minimum of $1200-1300 for a roundtrip flight from Korea to North America. They made a demand in the interest of their players - NASL could not meet it. End of the story. As for who made the bigger boo-boo, that really depends on ur view. They refused to play nice when nasl offerred to guarantee everyone who had to travel 2500$. that's ridiculous and should be called as such.
It's not ridiculous at all to shaft Korea over an entire season and then be surprised when they play hard ball the next right? This could have been avoided if they hadn't scheduled KR to play at 5am (or at least rotated), allowed for latency issues somehow, and (most importantly) actually hammered out contracts before starting the league. But yea, it's the Koreans that are being ridiculous if they want to look out for their players and teams.
On August 12 2011 17:59 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:57 BootySmakaRaX wrote:
Id just like to point out that after all this talk about who is right or wrong no one has mentioned that the Europeans or non korean international players have not said anything about drawing out. Pretty sure Naniwa said it was a shitty league (his words). He's not in season 2 of course.
Strelok complained quite a bit about the scheduling and no shows as well during on line play.
On August 12 2011 18:05 vertical101 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 Govou wrote:On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'( I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not. their are really fking demanding its North AMERICA starcraft league.they should have know that they play at foreign time. they shouldnt have sign up if they cant play at american time. this koreans feels like their are a rockstar.
They don't play at a normal American time. It's mostly a compromise between NA/EU time zones. Which leaves KR completely shafted. And that brings up the other question, if you're so focused on North America starleague, why do you not have a problem with accommodating EU?
On August 12 2011 18:05 EventHorizoN wrote:
I guess I will stop watching NASL exept maybe those few Koreans and WhiteRa. Man I'm sooooo sad. But some teams are not included in the list, does that mean for example SlayerS would participate? :D
Cheers
No, SlayerS announced their withdrawal a while ago for the same reasons. Which means it's really not an SC2con issue.
On August 12 2011 18:05 IceDice wrote:
Are the european and other non-US players getting their trips paid for ?
No reason to give the korean players special treatment if you ask me.
No reason they should consistently get screwed with 5am play times and double latency either.
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Well, I find it generally unfair that there is a fixed amount of travel reimbursment for each player, independent of the fact whether they live next door or at the other side of the world. I'd rather see NASL paying all the travel costs for everybody, or just book the flight and hotel for the players themselfs, to keep an eye on the total amount of traveling costs they need to pay.
edit: anyways, sad to see the Koreans withdraw. kind of glad I still haven't bought a ticket yet.
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On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:
[quote]
one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months.
I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
Considering how soon the qualifiers were, that would mean that they would have had to quit before being able to negotiate for season 2.
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On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season.
To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify?
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On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money.
It's a $1000 travel stipend and a rearrangement of prize money to make it easier for the teams that can't afford to send their players to go by dipping into that prize money. They aren't asking the Koreans to pay out of the prize money, they're doubling the Ro16 prize money to make it easier on players who do need to dip into it in order to go. It's a reasonable offer; if they made other accommodations (such as play times) they probably could have worked something out at the negotiating table that doesn't lead to NASL quadrupling Season 1's travel stipend. But SC2con wouldn't even come to the table, or so it seems.
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inferring from the fact that Boxer & Nada pulled out of season 2 before all this happened (boxer who isn't with the sc2association), I don't think they have some "ulterior motives" but it's just not worth the time & schedule trouble for the koreans it seems.
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On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:
[quote]
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify?
I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1?
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rly bad from the koreans =/
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On August 12 2011 18:25 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Considering how soon the qualifiers were, that would mean that they would have had to quit before being able to negotiate for season 2.
They should have been talking about this throughout season 1 so this would all have been implemented for season 2
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On August 12 2011 18:20 theBizness wrote:
$1000 in prizes, a majority of which will go toward the rest of the airfare, lodgings and food during the tournament. Unless you win, you're messing with your regular schedule for 8 weeks plus making a long flight for something around $350. If you factor in 1.5 hours for each match including warm up, that's 12 hours. Factor in 35 hours flying + the time spent at the tournament and you're making a couple dollars an hour. All of this time could be invested in better preparing for more important/easier things like the GSL/other tournaments.
Even if there's a big chance of getting a 0 dollar win, so many other players do that regularly. For example these non swedish/finnish players in Assembly Summer didn't win anything at all, but still had to pay for a plane ticket (or sponsors/team had to pay): Huk, Grubby, Nightend, Adelscott, Kas, Happy, TLO, Sarens, Nada, Lowely, Sen, Darkforce, biGs.
If every player looked at every tournament from a perspective if they would make money, or if the money made would be a good enough hourly salary, there wouldn't be tournaments with international participants. Most that go to tournaments know that they won't earn on it, they do it for the competition. It's like with old BW tournaments, I might be quoting day9 or artosis now: "So if you drove to a tournament and won the 200 dollar first price you only lost 200 dollars total". Players still went to the tournaments.
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I'm curious how much the Koreans leaving will affect the paying member base of NASL.
It's $25 for a season? So they would need like 1200 additional subscriptions to cover the travel costs of the Koreans. Is that possible? Or could the Koreans bring in even more paying members to get NASL a profit after travel expenses?
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On August 12 2011 18:28 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:23 Namu wrote:On August 12 2011 18:22 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize.
Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't. Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule. Note they complained in between nasl 1 and nasl 2... which seems reasonable? not like they qualified then quit mid-season. To me it seems that they complained after they qualified. And if you don't like the circumstances and complained before them, why even try to qualify? I see your point, but weren't the qualifiers ran during season 1?
They were ran after the playoffs but before the grand finals. If all of this was such a big issue, why weren't these complaints made during season one? This is something that should have been worked on since then.
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this is really bad for the scene! =( there is no one to blame with our knowledge, but i hope koreans will try to participate in more international events in the future and nasl will show high quality games
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tough for nasl as a lot of viewers looked forward to the koreans, depending on the competition some lesser skilled players will get more money =)
on another note i think the demands from the koreans are stupid, step up your sponsoring, just because its not good there doesnt mean u ve to treated different from others. if nasl would ve treated them differently i assume that a lot of foreign teams would ve been super pissed bout that.
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On August 12 2011 18:29 Lobo2me wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:20 theBizness wrote:
$1000 in prizes, a majority of which will go toward the rest of the airfare, lodgings and food during the tournament. Unless you win, you're messing with your regular schedule for 8 weeks plus making a long flight for something around $350. If you factor in 1.5 hours for each match including warm up, that's 12 hours. Factor in 35 hours flying + the time spent at the tournament and you're making a couple dollars an hour. All of this time could be invested in better preparing for more important/easier things like the GSL/other tournaments. Even if there's a big chance of getting a 0 dollar win, so many other players do that regularly. For example these non swedish/finnish players in Assembly Summer didn't win anything at all, but still had to pay for a plane ticket (or sponsors/team had to pay): Huk, Grubby, Nightend, Adelscott, Kas, Happy, TLO, Sarens, Nada, Lowely, Sen, Darkforce, biGs. If every player looked at every tournament from a perspective if they would make money, or if the money made would be a good enough hourly salary, there wouldn't be tournaments with international participants. Most that go to tournaments know that they won't earn on it, they do it for the competition. It's like with old BW tournaments, I might be quoting day9 or artosis now: "So if you drove to a tournament and won the 200 dollar first price you only lost 200 dollars total". Players still went to the tournaments.
I think the difference is the sponsors. Foreigner teams can afford to do that while korean teams can't, it seems (they mentioned this in the korean announcement about this issue, along with schedule problems).
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EPT
