|
On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately 
It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money.
|
What makes me really angry is that MLG probably spends more in the koreans plane tickets, hotel, shuttle etc.. then in the prize pool!
We don't need them i don't want to see another GSL.. i prefer if NASL has like 10 koreans and the rest na+euro
|
On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money.
Yeah, I just read the korean text about it. I understand their logic and why they're withdrawing.
Oh NASL...
and it's funny there are people who are saying this won't affect the tournament.
Think of the "best quality" games from last season and i'll guarantee you 90% of them involved a korean and more than half were korean vs korean.... this is a big hit to the level of the tournament.
|
On August 12 2011 18:14 Kavas wrote:
watching people play and actually playing the game at their level are 2 different things.
That doesn't even make any sense. I can sit down at 4 AM and play a set at the top of my game, go to bed, and wake up around 9 or 10 and be fine for the day with a cup of coffee.
The same problem occurs for europeans and ozzies, too. And they're not bitching.
It's like saying that all tournaments shouldn't start until 2PM because some players are insomniacs. If you can't make the times, don't play in the damned tournament. period. It's in no way the tournament's job to bend itself over backwards for a specific group of players. End of story.
|
On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money.
No, they are giving Koreans special treatment in that Koreans all are guaranteed 1000$ in prizes.
Basically, it is impossible for a Korean to not make money on the tournament.
|
As a paying member of NASL season 1, I was even more excited for Season 2 with the influx of great Korean players. Now that most all of them are out I don't expect to be paying for season 2 
95% of the top talent in SC2 is in Korea, and having so few of them just completely killed my interest D:
|
On August 12 2011 18:07 Poffel wrote:
Q: How do we create incentives for Koreans to compete at 4 am in the morning with bad latency?
A: Double the participants' deposit.
Hmm... even though it's hard to blame NASL for the existence of time zones, I find it not too hard to believe that some Koreans might be pissed of by that kind of solution for their complaints.
Koreans winning $84,000 should be enough incentive to play in it.
|
On August 12 2011 18:17 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 18:11 Namu wrote:It seems really odd... a 2000 dollar traveling stipend really seems like enough. I'm guessing there are other reasons the korean players withdrew. Kinda sucks... Well I won't be watching NASL this season I guess... the only reason I watched some NASL last season was because of the koreans. Without them, IPL has a much better production quality for me unfortunately It's not $2000, they're offering $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the Grand Finals and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that $1000 prize. It's asking players to take expenses out of their own prize money. No, they are giving Koreans special treatment in that Koreans all are guaranteed 1000$ in prizes. Basically, it is impossible for a Korean to not make money on the tournament.
lol? you know the plane ticket alone costs more than 1000 dollars, right? and it's a travel stipend for only those going to the grand finals.
|
On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:
[quote]
NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months. I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault.
Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 18:09 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:03 Soohard wrote:
ROFL 650 dollars for round trip half way around the world? I can barely get a single plane ticket for under 400 dollars to travel across the US and im booking it in months in advanced. Most koreans that have to come to NASL have to book a week before they headout because they arent sure if they are actually in or not. I would say for a round trip flight in a short notice would be easily 1500 dollars. And we all know the insane amount of money for bag fees plus a week in a hotel room could easily cost up to 100 dollars per night. Sure they get 2000 dollars but if they convert it to korean currency about 5 percent of that will be cut. I found a flight from seoul to anaheim (with a layover in seattle of an hour) that leaves tomorrow, for $720 after taxes and fees. Ur smart. Next time, don't pull numbers out of your ass, and use google. Show nested quote +Also normal people like to have someone travel with them who knows the language and etc. So two flights can easily be 3000 dollars. Yeeeeees, because we don't have lots of koreans that speak the language to show them around. Americans who go to korea for the GSL don't drag along a translator. Show nested quote +NASL needs to fix this now, or just have NASL in korea, the grand finals were mostly koreans anyways. How many north Americans were actually in the grand finals? 1? 0? I understand most of them live in korea or in EU. It would be better if it was in korea just sayin Sounds like someone is nutswinging korea a little bit. Don't get me wrong, I love me some korean players, but you're just absurd.
Your posts in this thread have been extremely aggressive. Add to the discussion in a more mature way please. Manner up.
|
On August 12 2011 18:12 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:
yes it will.. see how useful this is?
And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. You won't make money if you place all your chips on red and it comes up black. Gotta pay to play. Also, you're in america... It's at a bare minimum 2:15 AM for you right now. Nerds are night owls, the GSL doesn't start at the crack of dawn, and 4 AM, even if that were true (it isn't) is nothing.
It's easy to make assumptions like that. But you can't make broad general assumptions of a group of people like that. Assumptions and subjective judgements like that can't really be used in an argument. If the Koreans say it's bad, then you can't really argue and say it isn't since you haven't experienced it yourself.
|
$1000 in prizes, a majority of which will go toward the rest of the airfare, lodgings and food during the tournament. Unless you win, you're messing with your regular schedule for 8 weeks plus making a long flight for something around $350. If you factor in 1.5 hours for each match including warm up, that's 12 hours. Factor in 35 hours flying + the time spent at the tournament and you're making a couple dollars an hour. All of this time could be invested in better preparing for more important/easier things like the GSL/other tournaments.
|
On August 12 2011 18:17 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:14 Kavas wrote:
watching people play and actually playing the game at their level are 2 different things. That doesn't even make any sense. I can sit down at 4 AM and play a set at the top of my game, go to bed, and wake up around 9 or 10 and be fine for the day with a cup of coffee. The same problem occurs for europeans and ozzies, too. And they're not bitching. It's like saying that all tournaments shouldn't start until 2PM because some players are insomniacs. If you can't make the times, don't play in the damned tournament. period.
You claim that others are nuthugging korea yet you seem so defensive towards NASL. You should try reading the thread instead of just posting, as you shat on GOM earlier for no reason at all. Just a page ago someone wrote that Naniwa said he was glad to be out of a shitty tournament and Sen has also complained about the scheduling yet you keep on trucking about how just koreans are having a problem.
|
On August 12 2011 18:17 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:14 Kavas wrote:
watching people play and actually playing the game at their level are 2 different things. That doesn't even make any sense. I can sit down at 4 AM and play a set at the top of my game, go to bed, and wake up around 9 or 10 and be fine for the day with a cup of coffee. The same problem occurs for europeans and ozzies, too. And they're not bitching. It's like saying that all tournaments shouldn't start until 2PM because some players are insomniacs. If you can't make the times, don't play in the damned tournament. period.
It's not exactly like you get there at 4 and you play your game. You sign in at 4, and if you are the first game and your opponent is ready, then you might play it first. In many cases last season the koreans were sitting from 4 to 8 waiting for an opponent that didn't actually show up, I know July did that in one of his first games (he chose the walkover instead of a regame).
|
On August 12 2011 18:19 dabom88 wrote:
It's easy to make assumptions like that. But you can't make broad general assumptions like that. Assumptions and subjective judgements like that can't really be used in an argument. If the Koreans say it's bad, then you can't really argue and say it isn't since you haven't experienced it yourself.
Very fair point. But korea has been rather dramatic lately, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there haven't been some ulterior motives here.
|
Well, invite Grubby then again! He improved tons!
|
On August 12 2011 18:19 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 18:13 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:09 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:07 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 18:05 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:57 DystopiaX wrote:On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months. I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week! But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round. And they are still making more money by getting one of the bottom 8 spots than they do in the TL Opens. Sure they are easier money, but they still play great top foreign players and some great Korean players. All for $100 grand prize. Seriously, waking up for a 4 am match once a week isn't that bad. bottom 8 spots? But anyway, waking up at 4am is pretty bad. It warps your whole sleep schedule and cut into time you can use to practice with your teammates (who don't have bizarre sleep schedules). It's just a pain in the ass for 3 months just for the opportunity to lose more money by going to the finals. Bottom 8 in the grand finals. Waking up once a week at 4 am won't screw up your schedule. yes it will.. see how useful this is? And no you don't make more money by being in 16-9th place because they had to pay to get to the grand finals. Considering I do it on a regular basis and have a normal sleep schedule, it doesn't. My father has been waking up at 4 am for the past 25 years to go to work and has a normal sleep schedule (goes to sleep around 10pm). Doing it once a week will not screw up your schedule. You don't make money because Korean teams are broke and cant afford the roughly $650 extra from the $1000 stipend. Thats not NASL's fault. Um ok.. I really couldn't care less if you're fine with that schedule but Korean (and Taiwanese) progamers definitely do, they've mentioned it repeatedly. Your ability to do it doesn't invalidate that they can't.
Then don't try and qualify for the fucking tournament! Simple as that. They weren't forced to. To play in this league its a sacrifice they have to make. Dont qualify for the tournament and then ask for everything to be changed and complain about the schedule.
|
Is it just me or are they demanding too much? It's ridiculous. Any sort of special treatment should have been stopped after first invites. It's obvious they are capable of winning tournaments here. If they don't want to come, then let them.
Such a big difference between Koreans coming here and foreigners going to Korea.
Odds to win are also very different.
In my eyes, you did way too much to accommodate them and they still refused.
It's something they could have given some heads up on.
|
On August 12 2011 08:40 DKR wrote:NASL should reduce it's prize pot to MLG levels and use that to invest in production value and travel expenses. GSL maypays for travel and a practice house. NASL should learn from MLG, a tournament everyone respects. http://tinyurl.com/4xo9e56
So you want them to go from 50 000 $ to 5 000 $ 1st place prize. You want them to reduce their prize pool by 10X and go to the MLG style prize pool where everyone goes... WTF man this is nothing.
|
On August 12 2011 18:21 Lobo2me wrote:
It's not exactly like you get there at 4 and you play your game. You sign in at 4, and if you are the first game and your opponent is ready, then you might play it first. In many cases last season the koreans were sitting from 4 to 8 waiting for an opponent that didn't actually show up, I know July did that in one of his first games (he chose the walkover instead of a regame).
FFS, you can reschedule your games within reason. The NASL has been clear about this since day one.
This is a waste of time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
