EPTTSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 29
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spacefarm
United States112 Posts
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pookadin
Australia422 Posts
While I think it was very unprofessional and 'a dick move' on the part of EG and PuMa, I understand that money talks and this is how business operates. I can understand Coach Lee's frustration but in the end, Money is king dude. Sad fact of life. | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
On July 23 2011 09:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Unlike many, I'm going to have reasonable expectations about humans and recognize that they're that - human. It's perfectly reasonable for him to be emotionally upset and a sense of betrayal after Puma leaves. This isn't some cultural analysis - it's a freaking universal understanding of team membership and friendship that is cultivated by participation in a team. And before you go "but no betrayal, there was no contract!" - you don't need a contract to have a relationship, you don't contract any of your friends but it's obvious that you can feel betrayed when friends suddenly ditch you, for instance. You're assuming an awful lot about human nature. The stories and articles about people giving up opportunities and making sacrifices for their teams and friends make headlines and the Silver Screen because they aren't the norm. For every guy in a platoon that jumps on a grenade to save his comrades, there are a dozen or more that didn't (and likely countless platoons where NOBODY did where everyone just got a body full of shrapnel). There are too many separate issues regarding this situation, and people are getting them all mixed up. Here are the issues I can come up with, and the conclusion I've personally reached about them: 1. Was it wrong for Puma to leave TSL? My answer is no. There is nothing wrong with trying to better your own situation. If you find a better job, nobody can blame you for taking it, even if you've been with your current company for years. It's not betrayal, and that has nothing to do with contracts. You can be friends with people without being on the same team. 2. Was EG's method of acquiring Puma dirty or underhanded? After hearing Alex's explanation of what transpired on his end, I don't think they did anything "wrong". I'm not even sure they made a mistake. They had no way of knowing that Puma would wait so long to talk to Coach Lee about it (I believe it was said that EG approached Puma when he made it to the Ro4, NOT after he won, and he didn't say anything till after GSTL.), and they were NOT obligated to talk to Coach Lee themselves (and perhaps didn't realize that they should have, though I'm not sure on that part). Puma supposedly wanted to break the news to Lee himself, and EG obliged him. If it was a mistake, then lesson learned. They now know for next time. I don't see anything here that screams "Big Evil Corporation nomnomnom!" 3. Was EG's (Alex's) reaction to this publicity correct? I think everyone agrees that it was handled very poorly. He was late to field a response, and when he finally did, in a medium that was probably the very best possible scenario to make things clear, he digressed to a subject that really should have been saved for another time. He shot himself in the foot on the home stretch of what would have otherwise been as good a recovery as he could have hoped for. 4. Is TSL's situation a sad sad story? It sure is. Losing players left and right. Having trouble keeping sponsors and quickly running out of money. Your first big tournament result is followed by some unfortunate news. It's like they were finally on an upswing, and they hit a brick wall. It really is tragic, but one thing I know is that the source of their misfortune is not Puma, and it isn't EG. Lee's coaching has been called into question. TSL's skill level may be to blame. Perhaps it's the Korean SC2 scene in general that is the core of their problems. Or maybe a hundred other things that none of us have any clue about. Coach Lee and TSL are doing an excellent job of painting themselves as the victims, and maybe they think they are, but when I see stories of the players giving back their salaries and stipends to help a faltering team, I don't get all warm and fuzzy inside, and I don't see heroes in the making; I see naive kids who don't know the value of themselves and their money, and incompetent adults who have to be bailed out by their charges. | ||
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LastDance
New Zealand510 Posts
mad respect to SangHo and Clide. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On July 23 2011 10:21 LastDance wrote: I think Blizzard needs to wake up and realise their strict licensing of SC2 in Korea is stunting its growth tremendously. mad respect to SangHo and Clide. Agreed. One league (where competition is just huge with only 32 players getting much out of it) is just too little. Blizzard, KeSPA, and GOMTV need to all team up and work together (KeSPA may be willing to host an SC2 league if Blizzard allows them to and helps sponsor the prize money). No really KeSPA isn't that bad >.>. | ||
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QuasarStarcraft
United States46 Posts
I feel bad that TSL is hurting for money but that is life, things happen, survival of the fittest. I hope TSL can continue to field a team and compete, but they aren't the victims here. Granted from now on I think that all teams will discuss with Korean teams about players, possibly still after talking to the player. EG could've handled the PR a little better, by instead of appearing on WoC and just preparing a statement by the heads of the team to explain their situation calmly. All-in-all this is a learning experience and everyone will go forward knowing how to deal with these situations in the future to prevent a total meltdown of an excessively excitable community with a great deal of passion ready to burn first and ask questions later. I think what we should take away from this is that cooler heads will prevail and that speaking out of emotion although fun can lead to a total disaster. | ||
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Herry
England681 Posts
and i couldn't care less how anyone words what happened, but personally i have lost all respect for Puma and EG because of the underhanded way they handled the situation. and i think Puma will eventually realise how much of a mistake he made. | ||
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On July 23 2011 10:45 Herry wrote: In all professional sports you cannot just go to a player of another team and simply ask him to leave his team without working out some sort of deal. i think it is a HUGE mistake that any team doesnt contract its players. People need to start taking eSports seriously. and i couldn't care less how anyone words what happened, but personally i have lost all respect for Puma and EG because of the underhanded way they handled the situation. and i think Puma will eventually realise how much of a mistake he made. If I'm not mistaken, on Weapon of Choice EG explained that had Puma been contracted this would have been different. A deal would have been made in that situation. However, if you've lost all respect for Puma and EG, you'd have to also lose respect for Reign, FXO, Dignitas, Complexity, etc. etc.. Or rather, every single team in existence. How do you think they got the players they have. I'd like to point out again that, this is how this goes. When FXO got Sheth and QXC, they didn't speak to ROOT, they let Sheth and QXC speak to ROOT themselves. Can we mark Sheth, QXC, and FXO on your "no respect" list? Have Sheth and QXC realized the mistakes they've made or are they still on their way to figuring that out? | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On July 23 2011 10:45 Herry wrote: In all professional sports you cannot just go to a player of another team and simply ask him to leave his team without working out some sort of deal. i think it is a HUGE mistake that any team doesnt contract its players. People need to start taking eSports seriously. and i couldn't care less how anyone words what happened, but personally i have lost all respect for Puma and EG because of the underhanded way they handled the situation. and i think Puma will eventually realise how much of a mistake he made. means no matter what the involved people tell you how things really went, you decide to "loose all respect" for PumA and EG? fair enough | ||
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Craixs
Denmark170 Posts
Our team’s mission has always been to promote the growth and popularity of Starcraft 2. We have published video tutorials and training videos for beginners, and so far, our first video received about 20,000 hits. We even purchased HD equipments to provide the viewers with quality content. Where is it possible to find those videos? | ||
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StarcraftKevin
United States285 Posts
GO TSL fighting | ||
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gosu86
208 Posts
On July 23 2011 10:07 Sylvr wrote: You're assuming an awful lot about human nature. The stories and articles about people giving up opportunities and making sacrifices for their teams and friends make headlines and the Silver Screen because they aren't the norm. For every guy in a platoon that jumps on a grenade to save his comrades, there are a dozen or more that didn't (and likely countless platoons where NOBODY did where everyone just got a body full of shrapnel). There are too many separate issues regarding this situation, and people are getting them all mixed up. Here are the issues I can come up with, and the conclusion I've personally reached about them: 1. Was it wrong for Puma to leave TSL? My answer is no. There is nothing wrong with trying to better your own situation. If you find a better job, nobody can blame you for taking it, even if you've been with your current company for years. It's not betrayal, and that has nothing to do with contracts. You can be friends with people without being on the same team. 2. Was EG's method of acquiring Puma dirty or underhanded? After hearing Alex's explanation of what transpired on his end, I don't think they did anything "wrong". I'm not even sure they made a mistake. They had no way of knowing that Puma would wait so long to talk to Coach Lee about it (I believe it was said that EG approached Puma when he made it to the Ro4, NOT after he won, and he didn't say anything till after GSTL.), and they were NOT obligated to talk to Coach Lee themselves (and perhaps didn't realize that they should have, though I'm not sure on that part). Puma supposedly wanted to break the news to Lee himself, and EG obliged him. If it was a mistake, then lesson learned. They now know for next time. I don't see anything here that screams "Big Evil Corporation nomnomnom!" 3. Was EG's (Alex's) reaction to this publicity correct? I think everyone agrees that it was handled very poorly. He was late to field a response, and when he finally did, in a medium that was probably the very best possible scenario to make things clear, he digressed to a subject that really should have been saved for another time. He shot himself in the foot on the home stretch of what would have otherwise been as good a recovery as he could have hoped for. 4. Is TSL's situation a sad sad story? It sure is. Losing players left and right. Having trouble keeping sponsors and quickly running out of money. Your first big tournament result is followed by some unfortunate news. It's like they were finally on an upswing, and they hit a brick wall. It really is tragic, but one thing I know is that the source of their misfortune is not Puma, and it isn't EG. Lee's coaching has been called into question. TSL's skill level may be to blame. Perhaps it's the Korean SC2 scene in general that is the core of their problems. Or maybe a hundred other things that none of us have any clue about. Coach Lee and TSL are doing an excellent job of painting themselves as the victims, and maybe they think they are, but when I see stories of the players giving back their salaries and stipends to help a faltering team, I don't get all warm and fuzzy inside, and I don't see heroes in the making; I see naive kids who don't know the value of themselves and their money, and incompetent adults who have to be bailed out by their charges. yur number 1 statement is so true | ||
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VL-Orion
Indonesia78 Posts
He has been the practice partner for the like of Flash but have not had many success in the Korean league then he went to the NASL and see how many people is there to watch and cheer him. Personally i don't agree with this because it might affect his performance as a player (even MC has said that going abroad to attend many foreign tournament has deteriorate his skill overall due to lack of practice with Koreans. That being said I wish him the best of luck and more tournament wins to come. PS. for all of you sour grapes who blame EG players please stop being ignorant , its not EG players decision to recruit Puma. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On July 23 2011 10:25 Goldfish wrote: Agreed. One league (where competition is just huge with only 32 players getting much out of it) is just too little. Blizzard, KeSPA, and GOMTV need to all team up and work together (KeSPA may be willing to host an SC2 league if Blizzard allows them to and helps sponsor the prize money). No really KeSPA isn't that bad >.>. KeSPA would need to change a bit though in terms of how they deal with players, because SC2 pros are not used to, and probably do not want such a strict and controlling overseer. Would KeSPA do that? | ||
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blacksheepwall
China1530 Posts
Also, shouldn't Puma be financially set for at least a little while with his $50K from NASL? Still wish him the best of luck in the future, though. He's an exciting player to watch. | ||
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Zycosi
Canada1 Post
On July 23 2011 10:45 Herry wrote: In all professional sports you cannot just go to a player of another team and simply ask him to leave his team without working out some sort of deal. i think it is a HUGE mistake that any team doesnt contract its players. People need to start taking eSports seriously. and i couldn't care less how anyone words what happened, but personally i have lost all respect for Puma and EG because of the underhanded way they handled the situation. and i think Puma will eventually realise how much of a mistake he made. How was it handled 'underhandedly' when Puma didn't even have a contract, that means he had no professional obligation to TSL. Also consider that playing in the NASL was the first time that Puma had played in a foreign tournament, and he didn't have a salary you can see this guy wasn't given the opportunities that he deserved. I say good for him, hopefully his being in EG will give him more chances to prove himself. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
e: " SangHo and Clide were worried and it came to light that they were also approached similarly in the past." wow that is o_O from EG or..? This would be very misleading if it was not from EG. | ||
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antihope
United States42 Posts
Anything else about going behind so and so's back, or when you can or cant talk to someone who is not under contract, is just soap opera drama and needs to be ignored as such. Get a few wins under your belt and the next headline news interview will have everyone saying you made the perfect decision. | ||
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Contention
23 Posts
One of EG's CS players even told me that Jason Lake would get drunk at events and berate the players for bad performances if they didn't win, and that he was even a violent drunk and went so far as hitting one of the players while intoxicated. I've been involved in e-sports for a long time and there's always a second side to every story. It benefits TSL's coach to do interviews like this as damage control, and place the blame on the shoulders of EG for Puma leaving when in reality in my experience 99% of the time when someone leaves an organization they were already not happy with it BEFORE they even got an offer from another team. Whether it's internal strife, not liking other players on the team, the coaches habits, the lack of sponsor support or other things Puma must have already been thinking of joining another team before EG's proposal or he likely would've shut them down as the other TSL players did with their offers. I think the whole portrayal of EG as some sinister organization going behind peoples backs to steal their players is ridiculous as in my experience it's one of maybe 5 organizations in the world who actually honor their contracts, and support their players properly. Anyway, my two cents. | ||
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