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On July 22 2011 12:53 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:48 VeryAverage wrote:
I know the whole "hurting eSports" thing is overplayed to death, but seriously, this really is.
The best players are in Korea (look how much Huk improved from practicing there). The hardest competition is in Korea. Therefore, the best players should stay in Korea. Yeah, having a foreign scene is cool, but Korea has proven that they will stick with it for years and years, while this foreign scene could be a flash in the pan for all we know.
I hope we don't just start buying up people so we can kill the small and fragile SC2 scene there.
Yet the korean scene barely survives. Why? Because they have bad business sense, it was a foolish decision for one league to own all the rights to SC2 in korea.
You can blame blizzard for that actually. They gave GOM exclusive broadcasting rights till 2012 ( not sure about the year. Might be 2014) because they had their panties in a knot with their court case with kespa
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Thanks for posting this interview
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On July 23 2011 08:17 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 07:47 itiswhatitis wrote:
Everyone is just so quick to demonize EG, it's ridiculous. EG gave out cards to all the Korean players, they wanted to recruit a Korean, nothing wrong with that. Out of everyone, Puma was the one who was interested, and not under contract. They made him an attractive offer, he liked it, and he decided he should be the one to bring it up with his team.
So what's the problem? The TSL coach is just upset because they lost all their top players to teams who can actually pay them. What a bastard Puma is for wanting to actually be paid for the hard work he puts in...
TSL needs to focus on fixing TSL, not on crying about how their players are being "stolen", or they are going to fade into obscurity.
Personally, I think they should recruit a foreign player onto their team... that is, if they could afford to pay them. It has nothing to do with that, it has to do with common courtesy. TSL is the team that grew Puma to who he is, there is no doubt that Puma indeed has the final word in the decision, however it is simple courtesy to allow the team to know that EG is indeed interested in getting Puma. By not talking to TSL team first, it doesn't allow TSL to counter negotiate with their own player Puma. Its the same thing about other professional sports, like basketball, and football. Teams trade with teams, and its fairly obvious that approaching Puma before, or not w/ any of TSL's management is a pretty big travesty. Also this will make Korean teams much much more weary about their players, being much more protective of them from foreign team advancements, ESPECIALLY after an ordeal such as this. I believe the coach of TSL just wanted some transparency, and wanted to hear the news from EG's management, and not have to ask his player to find out. This is common business practice, and a form of courtesy.
No, it isn't fairly obvious that approaching Puma before TSL management is a big travesty because it isn't. Lee brewed up a hyperbole of the situation and painted a bad picture of EG and that's it.
Explain to us how Lee having to ask Puma about the situation when Puma asked EG to stay out of it because he would do it himself is EG's fault whatsoever. Also, Puma isn't even on EG yet--TSL has all the time in the world to counter-negotiate if they were so inclined but they're not going to. They don't have any money.
Furthermore, if TSL was such an amazing thing to be a part of, why is it that Puma was so eager to leave?
Like, it's no one's fault. Because this isn't an issue. If anything however, the fact that Puma was not incredibly transparent and clear with Lee the moment he made his decision, instead of dodging and evading it for so long, this probably would not have happened.
Lee is outraged that he's losing players and his team is slowly coming apart, he's directing that anger at EG. That's it.
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PuMa has his own decision, PuMa has his own life. PuMa was not OWNED by TSL or anyone else. Maybe PuMa WANTS to make a a good salary to play sc2. Maybe PuMa WANTED to change teams??
Don't try to make EG look bad because of the miscomunication issues between the players and coaches.
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Huge respects for Clide and Sangho. Your dedication will pay off soon enough! GL HF TSL!!
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On July 23 2011 08:23 pyaar wrote:
big respect for Clide, SangHo and Coach Lee, not so much for EG and to a lesser degree PuMa.
Seriously, what's wrong with all of you? What fanciful unicorn utopia do you all live in where one team acquiring a player from another team is considered disrespectful?
Where was all of the hate for Sheth or QXC when they left ROOT for money? Why is it alright for that to occur, for FXO to speak only to Sheth or QXC about joining them, without speaking to Catz and Drewbie, and letting Sheth and QXC talk to their teams individually to sort the issue out, but because Puma is Korean and Lee went out of his way to demonize EG this is suddenly a big deal?
Why is that?
Do you recognize the inconsistency in the reaction from the community based on who it's happening to and not the actual issue itself?
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So basically from what I read.
TSL's sponsorship (and basically life of the team) depends on results. EG steals their best player, results not as good, TSL is in danger of folding.
If TSL does end up going under I will put all the blame solely on Geoff. I know he doesn't deserve it, but if he wasn't so crap maybe they wouldn't need Puma.
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Thank you for posting this, it offers a lot of insight that (cough half the site cough) I should understand before they post their judgments and opinions.
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On July 23 2011 08:32 CellTech wrote:
So basically from what I read.
TSL's sponsorship (and basically life of the team) depends on results. EG steals their best player, results not as good, TSL is in danger of folding.
If TSL does end up going under I will put all the blame solely on Geoff. I know he doesn't deserve it, but if he wasn't so crap maybe they wouldn't need Puma.
Lol get off your high horse.
Any foreign team able to afford it would take him in a heartbeat.
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Money talks I guess.. but very unprofessional of Puma and EG for that matter if the OP is true =/
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Mad respect for SangHo and Clide.
Hopefully TSL can live through this.
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I don't really have much to say on the matters of Puma leaving TSL. If he feels that leaving TSL is the way to go for him, then all the power to him. I hope to see him more in future tournaments.
Respects to SangHo and Clide for sticking with TSL and even providing financial support by returning their stipends/salaries to help TSL stay put. I really like seeing this kind of character and I hope their dedications and loyalty to the team pays off big in the future.
As for everyone seeing EG as a evil company, EG may have made offers to Korean players, but in the end it is the players that makes the decision. It's not like EG forced PuMa to the team or anything like that. They simply asked, and PuMa responded. If you are truly angry about PuMa leaving TSL, then get mad at PuMa, EG has done nothing wrong.
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Nice interview. But like Eric said Money talks.
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I don't really understand what people think is keeping Puma on TSL when they don't..pay him. He's good, he's very, very good. And they don't pay him.
I don't understand how the reaction is: "Wow the people that took him are assholes!", when the reality of the situation is the people that he left clearly didn't respect his talent or ability and he left for people who do. Why is that not a good thing for everyone but TSL and why are people caring much for TSL at all at this point?
From what I understand, every great player has left them. This makes four. This isn't an isolated incident, clearly something is going on that would result in four people leaving the team in such a small period of time.
Other players were made offers by "foreign" teams (really, can we stop saying foreign when referring to ourselves in our own country?) in TSL and they didn't accept. They likely didn't accept because their offers weren't very good, otherwise they'd be gone. If they stayed out of some fanciful pride of team loyalty, they aren't taking their career very seriously. The idea is to move up and get better, not sit and stagnate.
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On July 23 2011 08:35 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 08:32 CellTech wrote:
So basically from what I read.
TSL's sponsorship (and basically life of the team) depends on results. EG steals their best player, results not as good, TSL is in danger of folding.
If TSL does end up going under I will put all the blame solely on Geoff. I know he doesn't deserve it, but if he wasn't so crap maybe they wouldn't need Puma. Lol get off your high horse. Any foreign team able to afford it would take him in a heartbeat.
At least he knows he's being irrational about it? 
Look, I know intellectually that all parties involved (TSL, EG, and Puma) deserve an equal portion of the blame. This "scandal," so to speak, is just a classic case of miscommunication, IMHO. Knowing this doesn't really stop me from having a knee-jerk reaction to EG, though, especially after AG's PR travesty. Whether or not you agree with AG doesn't really change the fact that what he said on air was absolutely stupid. He knows most of the viewers come from TL, and it was kind of like watching a train wreck at the end. He can certainly speak well, but it was like he didn't have a survival instinct. Hilarious, but not very good for EG's image.
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On July 23 2011 08:28 DBOWNIZZ wrote:
PuMa has his own decision, PuMa has his own life. PuMa was not OWNED by TSL or anyone else. Maybe PuMa WANTS to make a a good salary to play sc2. Maybe PuMa WANTED to change teams??
Don't try to make EG look bad because of the miscomunication issues between the players and coaches.
Thank you!
Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 08:23 pyaar wrote:
big respect for Clide, SangHo and Coach Lee, not so much for EG and to a lesser degree PuMa. Seriously, what's wrong with all of you? What fanciful unicorn utopia do you all live in where one team acquiring a player from another team is considered disrespectful? Where was all of the hate for Sheth or QXC when they left ROOT for money? Why is it alright for that to occur, for FXO to speak only to Sheth or QXC about joining them, without speaking to Catz and Drewbie, and letting Sheth and QXC talk to their teams individually to sort the issue out, but because Puma is Korean and Lee went out of his way to demonize EG this is suddenly a big deal? Why is that? Do you recognize the inconsistency in the reaction from the community based on who it's happening to and not the actual issue itself?
And thank you!
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I have a lot of respect for Coach Lee and the remaining players of TSL, especially Clide and SangHo for not telling the coach of their many offered deals and donating their salary to the team. TSL is a great team of players, dedicated to SC2 and e-sports, who want the community to flourish. I wish TSL the best of luck in the future, and hope their problems will be solved.
TSL fighting!
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The question is, why was Coach Lee in charge of negotiations with EG? Does TSL not have a manager/CEO? Just like how Sir Scoots didn't handle negotiations for EG, there's no reason a coach should handle player situations other than play. No wonder he got hosed.
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On July 23 2011 08:43 Kich wrote:
I don't really understand what people think is keeping Puma on TSL when they don't..pay him. He's good, he's very, very good. And they don't pay him.
I don't understand how the reaction is: "Wow the people that took him are assholes!", when the reality of the situation is the people that he left clearly didn't respect his talent or ability and he left for people who do. Why is that not a good thing for everyone but TSL and why are people caring much for TSL at all at this point?
From what I understand, every great player has left them. This makes four. This isn't an isolated incident, clearly something is going on that would result in four people leaving the team in such a small period of time.
Other players were made offers by "foreign" teams (really, can we stop saying foreign when referring to ourselves in our own country?) in TSL and they didn't accept. They likely didn't accept because their offers weren't very good, otherwise they'd be gone. If they stayed out of some fanciful pride of team loyalty, they aren't taking their career very seriously. The idea is to move up and get better, not sit and stagnate.
Just because he's not getting paid doesn't mean he isn't getting anything.
They give him a free place to live with some of the best SC2 players in the world for practice partners with the sole purpose of getting him better. They give him food to eat, they pay for all of his needs. Just because he doesn't have a monthly salary doesn't mean he doesn't get anything.
TSL is a huge part in why he is where he is. You can say TSL lost some of their best players but that isn't the case. What has FD or Tester done recently? Nothing, them leaving isn't as big of a hit to TSL as PuMa being stolen.
FD and Tester left, but at the same time you have SangHo and Clide giving their salaries back to TSL to help the team. What does that say? Surely if TSL wasn't treating their players right that kind of thing wouldn't happen.
This is why I think it was such a shady move by EG, when you have a team like TSL who is trying to make SC2 in Korea as big as SC1, they are giving a house, practice partners, food, exposure, etc to players like PuMa and EG doesn't even have the courtesy to talk to the team? You don't hand out a card saying "we'd like to sign you" to the player, you talk to the team's management first.
Even if PuMa says that he wants to talk to his team and not EG, it's still EG who contacted the player FIRST. That's shady and not how business should be done. They have a history of doing it in the past and they don't give a shit. At the end of the day they are gonna get PuMa signed and everyone's gonna forget about it until they do something shady again.
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Has Puma made a comment on this whole situation yet? Seems to me like the whole ordeal and mis-understanding was caused by him in the first place.
Sounds to me like EG went up to Puma and said "hey we have been working on a format to get some korean players on our team and we'd like to have you be the first would you be interested? You will get salary pay on top of tournament arrangements, if that sounds interesting we'd love to have you"
Then Puma I'm assuming liked the deal and from what I've heard from EG decided it would be best if he (puma) went to talk to his coach about it instead of someone from EG since Puma actually knew the coach.
Seems like the whole ordeal was caused by Puma like i said in the beginning. I would really love to hear is perspective on this whole thing since EG and TSL will obviously both have their bias.
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EPT
